Climate Cat out of the Bag? Potentially dynamite revelations
Discussion
WattsUpWithThat said:
It appears that the proverbial Climate Science Cat is out of the bag.
I’m currently traveling and writing this from an aiprort, but here is what I know so far:
An unknown person put postings on some climate skeptic websites that advertsied an FTP file on a Russian FTP server, here is the message that was placed on the Air Vent today:
We feel that climate science is, in the current situation, too important to be kept under wraps.
We hereby release a random selection of correspondence, code, and documents
The file was large, about 61 megabytes, containing hundreds of files.
It contained data, code, and emails from Phil Jones at CRU to and from many people.
I’ve seen the file, it appears to be genuine and from CRU. Others who have seen it concur- it appears genuine. There are so many files it appears unlikely that it is a hoax. The effort would be too great.
Here is some of the emails just posted at Climate Audit on this thread:
http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7801#comments
I’ve redacted email addresses and direct phone numbers for the moment. The emails all have US public universities in the email addresses, making them public/FOIA actionable I beleive.
Developing story – more later
If this story turns out to be on the money - as Watts says the effort to produce something artificial would appear far too great while the content is too detailed and credible - there will be more than sticks in pieces from today.
Click the link below to a small portion of the e-mails and files reportedly released from UEA CRU by a hacker. This is potentially explosive. There is content involving Jones, Osborn, Briffa, Mann, Bradely, Hughes, alleging content and messages with e.g.:
- pleasure at the tragic and untimely death of climate realist 'Still Waiting for Greenhouse' John Daly "In an odd way this is cheering news !"
- using "Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline"
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/19/breaking-new...
Who knows how this will evolve.
More content here, with the same 'due caution' warning.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/inde...
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/inde...
Some comments with some from individuals claiming to have seen the files.
"OK this is pretty damning if true. Apparently this file dump contains not only admissions in correspondence that the 'hockey stick' was a lie (and they are trying to cover it up) & how they can fool the populace of the UK. This stuff is pretty sick and damning."
"While this may be an elaborate hoax, I tend to doubt it. A hoax would require more competence than bureaucrats are capable of. It sure is a fascinating development."
"Gavin Schmidts Real-Climate has all but shutdown blogging tonight as they scurry like cockroaches in the light."
And apparently a new location for the file itself:
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5171206
"OK this is pretty damning if true. Apparently this file dump contains not only admissions in correspondence that the 'hockey stick' was a lie (and they are trying to cover it up) & how they can fool the populace of the UK. This stuff is pretty sick and damning."
"While this may be an elaborate hoax, I tend to doubt it. A hoax would require more competence than bureaucrats are capable of. It sure is a fascinating development."
"Gavin Schmidts Real-Climate has all but shutdown blogging tonight as they scurry like cockroaches in the light."
And apparently a new location for the file itself:
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5171206
Guam said:
turbobloke said:
Some comments with some from individuals claiming to have seen the files.
"OK this is pretty damning if true. Apparently this file dump contains not only admissions in correspondence that the 'hockey stick' was a lie (and they are trying to cover it up) & how they can fool the populace of the UK. This stuff is pretty sick and damning."
"While this may be an elaborate hoax, I tend to doubt it. A hoax would require more competence than bureaucrats are capable of. It sure is a fascinating development."
"Gavin Schmidts Real-Climate has all but shutdown blogging tonight as they scurry like cockroaches in the light."
And apparently a new location for the file itself:
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5171206
I worry about this TB"OK this is pretty damning if true. Apparently this file dump contains not only admissions in correspondence that the 'hockey stick' was a lie (and they are trying to cover it up) & how they can fool the populace of the UK. This stuff is pretty sick and damning."
"While this may be an elaborate hoax, I tend to doubt it. A hoax would require more competence than bureaucrats are capable of. It sure is a fascinating development."
"Gavin Schmidts Real-Climate has all but shutdown blogging tonight as they scurry like cockroaches in the light."
And apparently a new location for the file itself:
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5171206
Cheers
Steve McIntyre has confirmed that the e-mails in the hacked content purportedly from him, e-mails that he previously sent to those implicated, are "100% genuine".
So, watch this space.
Jasandjules said:
There is an easy way to prove it/disprove it. The UEA can release a copy of it's e-mail archive to a third party so that a search can be performed to find these e-mails. The simplicity of disproving it is why I would suspect that they are genuine. Of course, if they are fake, the reasonable (they call it sceptic) position would be damaged badly.
Of course, if the UEA were to refuse to provide their archives to a third party, I think we'd have our answer.
Though thinking at a tangent, are we looking at criminal matters here? At which point the police can sieze the computers and the data.
Fair point. Incidentally, no disrespect to deeps for the overnight b(l}ag but this needed a thread. First time in a long while my inbox had nearly as much genuine mail as overnight spam that evaded the filter Of course, if the UEA were to refuse to provide their archives to a third party, I think we'd have our answer.
Though thinking at a tangent, are we looking at criminal matters here? At which point the police can sieze the computers and the data.
More caution evident in this response:
http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/real-files-or...
Click the link to see more content that, if faked, is astonishing
In keeping with the caveat I won't be posting actual file content, my view is that if real this is truly the end of the road but if fake somebody ELSE is going to jail. Some snips below:
You get to see somebody with the name of Phil Jones say that he would rather destroy the CRU data than release it to McIntyre.
And lots lots more. Including how to obstruct or evade FOIA requests. and guess who funded the collection of cores at Yamal.. and transferred money into a personal account in Russia.
And you get to see what they really say behind the curtain..you get to see how they “shape” the news, how they struggled between telling the truth and making policy makers happy.
You get to see what they say about Idso and pat micheals, you get to read how they want to take us out into a dark alley, it’s stunning all very stunning. You get to watch somebody named phil jones say that John daly’s death is good news.. or words to that effect.
I don’t know that its real..
But the CRU code looks real
http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/real-files-or...
Click the link to see more content that, if faked, is astonishing
In keeping with the caveat I won't be posting actual file content, my view is that if real this is truly the end of the road but if fake somebody ELSE is going to jail. Some snips below:
You get to see somebody with the name of Phil Jones say that he would rather destroy the CRU data than release it to McIntyre.
And lots lots more. Including how to obstruct or evade FOIA requests. and guess who funded the collection of cores at Yamal.. and transferred money into a personal account in Russia.
And you get to see what they really say behind the curtain..you get to see how they “shape” the news, how they struggled between telling the truth and making policy makers happy.
You get to see what they say about Idso and pat micheals, you get to read how they want to take us out into a dark alley, it’s stunning all very stunning. You get to watch somebody named phil jones say that John daly’s death is good news.. or words to that effect.
I don’t know that its real..
But the CRU code looks real
More for the 'real or fake' debate to get chewing on, from WUWT
http://briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room/...
The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.
In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
“Have you alerted police”
“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”
Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.
“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”
http://briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room/...
The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.
In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
“Have you alerted police”
“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”
Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.
“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”
AshVX220 said:
I'm trying not to get to excited about it yet though, there are too many powerful people and organisations that will do whatever it takes to continue leading the public down this particular path. Don't under-estimate the power of spin.
Seems likely they'll want to "Do A True Believer" and say blah blah then lie low for a while before popping up again as if nothing happened.If true, this though may be a bit too much for that time-worn twostep.
ludo said:
turbobloke said:
Worth noting perhaps:
Climate Audit article by Steve McIntyre May 28th, 2008
Claimed e-mail in the UEA CRU hack file May 29th, 2008
however if you wanted to forge some email correspondence, that is just the sort of detail you would put in, using publicly available information, just to add a little verisimilitude. A bit like adding emails from Steve MacInyre, who publishes a lot of his email correspondence with people like Phil Jones anyway. The idea that Phil Jones reads Climate Audit seems a little far fetched if you ask me!Climate Audit article by Steve McIntyre May 28th, 2008
Claimed e-mail in the UEA CRU hack file May 29th, 2008
Loyal to the bitter end eh?
To ludo.
See 0905 post.
This would need to be fake also.
The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.
In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
“Have you alerted police”
“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”
Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.
“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”
As Guam and myself and others are remaining cautious but realistic about this, your own uncritically loyal defence seems out of place. If you tie yourself to that view and the ship goes down you will sink without trace.
See 0905 post.
This would need to be fake also.
The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.
In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
“Have you alerted police”
“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”
Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.
“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”
As Guam and myself and others are remaining cautious but realistic about this, your own uncritically loyal defence seems out of place. If you tie yourself to that view and the ship goes down you will sink without trace.
ludo said:
turbobloke said:
To ludo.
See 0905 post.
This would need to be fake also.
The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.
In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
“Have you alerted police”
“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”
Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.
“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”
As Guam and myself and others are remaining cautious but realistic about this, your own uncritically loyal defence seems out of place. If you tie yourself to that view and the ship goes down you will sink without trace.
I don't believe that for a minute either. Most academics know better than to talk on a matter like this other than through the press office, and I rather doubt he would have gone to an outlet such as that one. A carefully worded notice on the CRU website would be a much more likely first comment on the issue.See 0905 post.
This would need to be fake also.
The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.
In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
“Have you alerted police”
“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”
Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.
“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”
As Guam and myself and others are remaining cautious but realistic about this, your own uncritically loyal defence seems out of place. If you tie yourself to that view and the ship goes down you will sink without trace.
It isn't uncritical loyalty, if it were Spencer, Christy et el that were the targets, I would be expecting it to be a hoax as well. As I have pointed out if you wanted to indulge in a bit of scientific fraud, you would do it on a topic such as cloning, where such advances are pretty likely to be reproducable in a few years anyway (in which case there is a chance you will get away with it). You would have to be bloody stupid to do so with climate change, as if you know it is bulls
t, you will be proved wrong by the climate within your own lifetime, so there is little to gain (other than a prison sentence for fraud).We must wait and see.
If fake, somebody has gone to a MASSIVE amount of trouble over this.
One response and a riposte from elsewhere:
“Most cyber attacks are opportunistic and against soft targets. I doubt that CRU has gaping holes in their security systems, precisely because they fear the risk of attack from people wanting access their data.”
“Gary McKinnon faces extradition to the United States, where he is wanted for allegedly hacking into computers at the Pentagon and NASA.”
“Most cyber attacks are opportunistic and against soft targets. I doubt that CRU has gaping holes in their security systems, precisely because they fear the risk of attack from people wanting access their data.”
“Gary McKinnon faces extradition to the United States, where he is wanted for allegedly hacking into computers at the Pentagon and NASA.”
FunkyGibbon said:
ludo said:
The implications of the emails is that the scientists are deliberately fraudulent in the performing the science, which as I have said isn't a game that is likely to pay off for them if they know what they are saying to be untrue.
That's what I meant re: pay masters and flexibility. A lot of people have a lot of money tied up in this, so quite easy to believe that some decisions could be driven by financial agendas rather than science.But we'll have to wait and see, it all could be b
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