Rant: social engineering and its failings.
Discussion
A friend of mine came down to visit his parents this christmas, while he was down he had his glasses, mobile phone and a bag containing his babys travelling stuff stolen from his car.
Not unusual except the stuff was stolen while he was unloading the children from the car, in his parents driveway, a long driveway that leads to a nice open space on their property right outside the front door. his wife went in with the eldest and he took the smallest in and went back to get bags etc and lock the car, in the 30 seconds he was indoors a person who was lurking in the bushes drinking special brew stole the above items and ran away, incidentally leaving the half drunk special brew on the car roof.
Now, what has this got to do with social engineering I hear you ask ? Well, My friends Parents used to live in the middle of no-where with farmland all around, they had worked all their lives and had a lovely house in a nice area with a couple of other neighbours of similar ethics, all in all a good reward for a life spent wisely.
Except the local council had other ideas and built a damn great big housing estate for chavs, single mothers and drug addicts in the fields next door, the council actually puts the troubled "families" in this estate and recieves money from other councils to take problem people from inner cities.
The result is that the retired professional people who worked all their lives and paid into the system are under seige from drug addled criminal losers, the value has gone from their house and they being burgled almost weekly.
The Police are no use other than to issue yet another crime reference number and free victim pack with a pen in it, they have the Special brew can but said "we can see if there are fingerprints on it but to be honest that only tells us the person put the can on the car not that they stole your stuff".
Not unusual except the stuff was stolen while he was unloading the children from the car, in his parents driveway, a long driveway that leads to a nice open space on their property right outside the front door. his wife went in with the eldest and he took the smallest in and went back to get bags etc and lock the car, in the 30 seconds he was indoors a person who was lurking in the bushes drinking special brew stole the above items and ran away, incidentally leaving the half drunk special brew on the car roof.
Now, what has this got to do with social engineering I hear you ask ? Well, My friends Parents used to live in the middle of no-where with farmland all around, they had worked all their lives and had a lovely house in a nice area with a couple of other neighbours of similar ethics, all in all a good reward for a life spent wisely.
Except the local council had other ideas and built a damn great big housing estate for chavs, single mothers and drug addicts in the fields next door, the council actually puts the troubled "families" in this estate and recieves money from other councils to take problem people from inner cities.
The result is that the retired professional people who worked all their lives and paid into the system are under seige from drug addled criminal losers, the value has gone from their house and they being burgled almost weekly.
The Police are no use other than to issue yet another crime reference number and free victim pack with a pen in it, they have the Special brew can but said "we can see if there are fingerprints on it but to be honest that only tells us the person put the can on the car not that they stole your stuff".
Edited by Getragdogleg on Wednesday 29th December 16:05
payner2008 said:
I think that your assumption that everyone who lives on a council estate is a drug taking, property burgling, chav piece of scum is slightly narrow minded.
The fact that your friend had his stuff stolen is still s
t though.
Ok, one or two might be ok. The estate is known locally for being ver bad though.The fact that your friend had his stuff stolen is still s
t though. The other estates locally are ok, one is actually very nice indeed.
And I base my opinions on events and evidence, no narrow-mindedness here, just observation, local knowledge and reliable information as to council proceedure regarding troubled family relocation.
I have trouble with lazy f
king morons claiming money from the state and all the while theiving as well while those who have done ok for themselves and lived good lives doing no harm to others get stiffed.Sounds about right.
There is a woman locally who was in the papers just before Christmas who would have to earn over £30.000 a year in a job to be better off than she is on benefits.
Great.
I mean i don't blame her for going with the easy option but the bloody easy option should not exist.
Benefits should be a safety net if you fall on hard times not a fking hammock for lazy tts to lounge around in.
My personal pride would stop me taking the easy way, I am sure working gives you pride or a sense of being that is missing when you just take free money, I wonder if the jobless have more trouble with low self esteem and that is why drugs and alchohol feature so heavily in their lives.
There is a woman locally who was in the papers just before Christmas who would have to earn over £30.000 a year in a job to be better off than she is on benefits.
Great.
I mean i don't blame her for going with the easy option but the bloody easy option should not exist.
Benefits should be a safety net if you fall on hard times not a f
king hammock for lazy tts to lounge around in.My personal pride would stop me taking the easy way, I am sure working gives you pride or a sense of being that is missing when you just take free money, I wonder if the jobless have more trouble with low self esteem and that is why drugs and alchohol feature so heavily in their lives.
Edited by Getragdogleg on Wednesday 29th December 16:49
dcb said:
... and they left their car unattended for 30 seconds ?
Well my mate doesn't live there anymore, it's his parents house but its up a long drive and in the middle of their own property which is about 1/2 and acre in size, this is the first time a car being unloaded has been targetted, its normally breakins while the old couple go to the shops.The t
t who did this was waiting in the bushes, watching for an opportunity, that in itself is creepy.30 seconds to remove a child froma car and take it 20 feet to the house and put it in the porc, say hello to your mum and turn round and go back to the car is not normally worth locking a car for, now I suppose they will have to either watch the car while unloading or just lock/unlock ad-infinitum while they unload all the family tat on their own land.
Jasandjules said:
Until we can shoot anyone trespassing on our property, this kind of crime will continue. Can they not get a pair of big dogs? Let them loose in the grounds and put up warning signs. People won't be drinking their cheap booze in your garden after that.
Very true, until there is the threat of a reaction to a criminal action then we are pissing in the wind.Social inclusion and free money aint working i want to see social structure, and retribution for crimes.
Live within societys rules or f
k off and die.But i want the rules to be sensible and attainable, I dont want endless "30mph on dual carriagways money traps" and "we are fining you for not filling out paperwork" sort of rules.
Edited by Getragdogleg on Wednesday 29th December 18:22
Pupp said:
Getragdogleg said:
the council actually puts the troubled "families" in this estate and recieves money from other councils to take problem people from inner cities.
Care to evidence that particular assertion?Its locally well known, Treneere Estate gets these families and so does Roscadghill Estate, Interestingly Treneere is one of the countries worst estates in terms of crime, drugs and other problems.
rover 623gsi said:
The introduction of social housing and the mass house-building programme carried post-war is one of Britain's most under-rated achievements. It should rank right up there with the creation of the NHS and state education.
Yes, back in the days everyone was encouraged to have aspirations, now it, and the rest of the benefit system is a poorly disguised and barely functioning attempt to stop the idle bds from causing too much trouble.f
k em I say, I have had enough of working like a tt and having my quality of life reduced.The problem in this country is that we do not have enough pissed off tax paying working people. Much more of this sort of yoghurt knitting social inclusion s
t and the bottom of the pyramid WILL say enough is enough, its already starting with the likes of the BNP gaining credibility.Pupp said:
Maybe because, social housing on Treneere appears to be owned/managed by Penwith Housing Association, which is bog all to do with the council. And Wikipedia indicates the estate was actually built in the 1930s?
PHA was what the CC housing side became, its a charity and employs a lot of ex CC people and people who worked under the wider umbrella of the various CC section and CC funded schemes.The Treneere estate was a bright new thing in its day, working people lived there, then in the last 20 years the place changed as families were moved in from other areas, it can be a nasty place now that i would not like to walk through in daylight let alone at night.
Dont get me wrong, a lot is being done to tidy it and sort the problems but the elephant in the room regarding estates such as ours is that a lot of the people there have no job, have never had a job and will not ever get a job, some are involved with drugs and crime and that makes the area bad to live in.
The system of money for nothing is the trap, no incentive to work if it means you will have to get up and leave the house for less money.
Pupp said:
oyster said:
Getragdogleg said:
payner2008 said:
I think that your assumption that everyone who lives on a council estate is a drug taking, property burgling, chav piece of scum is slightly narrow minded.
The fact that your friend had his stuff stolen is still st though.
Ok, one or two might be ok. The estate is known locally for being ver bad though.The fact that your friend had his stuff stolen is still s
t though. The other estates locally are ok, one is actually very nice indeed.
And I base my opinions on events and evidence, no narrow-mindedness here, just observation, local knowledge and reliable information as to council proceedure regarding troubled family relocation.
I have trouble with lazy f
king morons claiming money from the state and all the while theiving as well while those who have done ok for themselves and lived good lives doing no harm to others get stiffed.Sounds like the people living near Heathrow that complain about aircraft.
But carry on anyway...
Edited by Pupp on Friday 31st December 10:16
FACT :The Treneere estate was established many yaers ago, it has problems. Families are moved down from inner cities, A local organisation responsible for housing funded by taxes takes these families. It used to be the CC, now its an Association, still taxpayer funded, still staffed with ex CC people.
Fact: The estate In the Original Post has grown in the last 10 years, it has grown in a linear way, the original planning permission was for houses with a small % of social housing and was allowed through despite objections, this original section of estate was quite nice and about 1/3rd of a mile from the established 30s house my friends parents live in on their own land.
Fact, the Roscadghall estate has been expanded, subsequent recent expansions have been to build ALL social housing, planning was objected to in the most vigourous manner, and yet it got built, built on an area that was originally GUARANTEED to be an environmental strip, with a grassed area and no housing, now within 20 feet of the original houses that have been there in seclusion since they were built.
FACT: The crime rate has increased.
Fact: My Mates folks decided enough was enough, had plans drawn up to knock their house down and build a few smaller affordable houses on the land in the same style and design as those on the estate, they rationalised it was the only way they could sell up and move, no-one will buy the house they are in because it is now too expensive for the area, they do not want to stay put. Their plans were refused, I have no idea why.
FACT: I am not trying to trick anyone with what I am saying, stop trying to catch me out and make out like i am some kind of cold hearted "throw them out on the streets" b
d.This sytem of giving people something for nothing does not work. there is no pride in sitting on your ass all day.
Pupp said:
I'm not trying to trip you up; you're doing a grand job of that yourself.
Really, you know the area then ?pupp said:
If all these facts are as you suggest, there will be no difficulty in evidencing them will there? Lets just take one shall we, you're assertion that families are somehow relocated from inner city areas to the estate for money. Prove what you're asserting; post up a policy or report originating from the Association that confirms this occurs or has occurred, or post up the statutory provision that enables the Association to act in this way.
Right, because a policy like that will have lots of paperwork to back it up, a transfer of problem families is not going to create a nice audited money trail is it, fk me what would happen if the locals got proof of what they knew was happening ? local knowledge is about as good as the proof gets, regional accents and new tricks stand out a mile in a small town like Penzance.
pupp said:
It may be that some people have moved from (say) London to Cornwall under Choice Based Lettings (which is the allocations system) but my guess is that an equal number have gone the other way too.
quite possibly.What exactly is your point ?
That I am wrong ? that the area I live in has not got a problem with criminals.
That social housing works fine and my mates stuff was not nicked ?
That utopia is all of us living in social housing funded by the state.
Edited by Getragdogleg on Friday 31st December 11:24
Pupp said:
Getragdogleg said:
Really, you know the area then ?
Nope. But I do know a little about local government, planning and housing law.Getragdogleg said:
Right, because a policy like that will have lots of paperwork to back it up, a transfer of problem families is not going to create a nice audited money trail is it, fk me what would happen if the locals got proof of what they knew was happening ?
local knowledge is about as good as the proof gets, regional accents and new tricks stand out a mile in a small town like Penzance.
So, you're seriously suggesting a statutory based and regulated Registered Provider of social housing is taking money to import problem families (regardless of their wishes?) without any policy backup or audit processes; and you're suggesting this because someone has been heard to speak with an out-of-town accent? Okay... k me what would happen if the locals got proof of what they knew was happening ? local knowledge is about as good as the proof gets, regional accents and new tricks stand out a mile in a small town like Penzance.
Where might I look to find the proof ?
powerstroke said:
Getragdogleg said:
12gauge said:
Funny title
social engineering and its failings
You people actually think this is what labour consider 'failings'?
Its what they meant to happen all along.
Careful, you will be asked to provide proof that Labour wanted this all along.social engineering and its failings
You people actually think this is what labour consider 'failings'?
Its what they meant to happen all along.
Its interesting that the Climate Change lie has come onto this topic. Both the levelling of society via the burgeoning welfare state and the fear/taxation via Climate brainwashing are both forms of social engineering designed to create a more pliable submissive population.
awaits naysayers, people who will accuse me of being paranoid and wearing a tin foil hat, also expected are liars, policy trolls and some of the other shift working dark entities of the web who normally come into threads like this forcing the message "nothing to see here, move along"
awaits naysayers, people who will accuse me of being paranoid and wearing a tin foil hat, also expected are liars, policy trolls and some of the other shift working dark entities of the web who normally come into threads like this forcing the message "nothing to see here, move along"
Pupp said:
Lost_BMW said:
as disgusting as the social mixing know it alls you misdescribed from the start.
Just made this bit a touch more accurate; hope that's ok...Anyway you have not responded to my last direct post to you yet, Anecdotal local knowledge was not good enough for you so i asked a question, you have not yet responded.
getragdogleg said:
And we get to the root of it, the basis for the last few pages of post tennis has been that you don't believe that a local authority or a housing association would take a fee to find a place for trouble families.
Where might I look to find the proof ?
Care to address that before we get into more "everything is fine, these are not the social problems you are looking for" posts from you ?Where might I look to find the proof ?
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