Executor and P of A Query

[MercedesClassic]

My brother and I have a 91 yo aunt in a nursing home past few years due to dementia. She's had good health otherwise but unfortunately she's taken a sudden dip, staff think her end is imminent. We are very sad as she is the last of my father's side and such an amazing lady.

We have experience of funerals and estate management as our parents both died young. The solicitor handled it as neither had Wills.
My aunt has a will it's plain and concise, basically 50/50 between us.
I'm the executor and bro is Power of Attorney. Neither of us have experience in this.
Once the funeral has been paid etc there will be little if anything left in her account. My brother will probably pay for everything from her money.

Currently her care home costs are mostly met by her modest pension. No other money or benefits was she ever entitled to as she always worked.

So my question is, as her estate is so small, no longer any property, etc what do we need to do?

Do we still need to engage a solicitor for anything? What would we be paying them for?

My thoughts are my brother pays for funeral as he has access to her money. I as executor contact her pension provider and inform them to cease payments. I register her death etc.

After everything is done we split any money if there's any left 50/50 then close her accounts?

Is it this simple or do I need to make it 'formal' by paying a solicitor? I just don't see the point for something so small and simple but appreciate the experts on the forum providing advice.
Thanks.

[MercedesClassic]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies. Very sorry to hear if your loss Jasey. That wasn't a good experience with your solicitor either and personally if it was me I'd have made a formal complaint. Either that or just paid the £750 and said sue me for the rest.

Anyway for both occasions with two different solicitors we had an ok experience. The reason I'd rather avoid using them on this occasion is that I don't see the point. The time off work for meetings, phone calls, the expense of it all.

My aunt was intelligent and pragmatic about life. Very organised, she had her will actioned by a solicitor 20+ years ago. She closed her ISAs etc and amalgamated them into one. All to make the admin easier etc.

Thanks for the link Jasey it signposted me to Age NI which has specific to NI info. I think I'll give their helpline a call this week.

[MercedesClassic]

Wow thanks for all the replies. Firstly I didn't know the LPA terminated on my aunt's death. Secondly my bro and I get well.
So basically we would pay for the funeral then get it back when the funds are split 50/50?

I as executor:
- pay for funeral prior to above
- register death, contact her previous employer and advise them she's died stop payments, back pay anything any pension they've overpaid etc.
- contact her bank, furnish them with what info they need to close account, transfer the funds to me, I transfer half to my bro.
- clear out her room in nursing home.

If it's all it is that seems straightforward enough but am I missing anything?

BTW in Northern Ireland funerals are usually third day after death so it's all a bit of rush so I'm keen to be prepared and talk to my brother about. Aunt's will states her funeral preferences and we have agreed on the after burial hospitality venue so that's destressed the thing somewhat.

Thanks everyone and have a lovely Sunday.

[MercedesClassic]

[quote=valiant]Banks will normally release funds specifically for funeral costs almost immediately once told of a person’s passing.

They’ll probably ask for a copy of the death certificate (sometimes just the certificate number will suffice) and an written quote from the funeral home and then money is straight into your account.

Also tell the government once death is registered via the ‘tell us once’ service,

https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you...

Pretty handy as they’ll with pensions, etc in one go saving you a few jobs.

Edited by valiant on Sunday 26th January 12:37

[/quote

Thanks that's good to know and the one-step method will be very useful.

[MercedesClassic]

Robertj21a said:

MercedesClassic said:

Wow thanks for all the replies. Firstly I didn't know the LPA terminated on my aunt's death. Secondly my bro and I get well.
So basically we would pay for the funeral then get it back when the funds are split 50/50?

I as executor:
- pay for funeral prior to above
- register death, contact her previous employer and advise them she's died stop payments, back pay anything any pension they've overpaid etc.
- contact her bank, furnish them with what info they need to close account, transfer the funds to me, I transfer half to my bro.
- clear out her room in nursing home.

If it's all it is that seems straightforward enough but am I missing anything?

BTW in Northern Ireland funerals are usually third day after death so it's all a bit of rush so I'm keen to be prepared and talk to my brother about. Aunt's will states her funeral preferences and we have agreed on the after burial hospitality venue so that's destressed the thing somewhat.

Thanks everyone and have a lovely Sunday.

Somewhere in all this, it's usual that you have to have the Will 'proved' - i.e that means to have it certified as the *Last* Will and Testament. This is usually a part of the Probate process and, I believe, may just require a declaration from you and your brother. As you may appreciate, in estates where there may be a lot of property, or savings, involved this can sometimes be an important issue, particularly if the deceased was known to have changed their will from time to time. From what you say, it sounds like the estate is quite small and some of these formalities may not therefore be necessary.

It doesn't really matter whether you or your brother pay for any part of the funeral process as long as each of you keep an accurate account of where expenses have been incurred, so that they can be reclaimed from the estate before it is split up.

Thanks for reply Robert. I was wondering was there a requirement like this. No she wasn't one to change things and if she had she'd have told us so all good there. She gave me a copy of her Will and funeral wishes and her solicitor has a copy.

[MercedesClassic]

Sheepshanks said:

MercedesClassic said:

Once the funeral has been paid etc there will be little if anything left in her account.
.........

Currently her care home costs are mostly met by her modest pension.

I wonder if your reference points are a bit off here - if her pension (plus state pension) is prettty well meeting her care home costs then it's going to a bit more than 'modest' by most people's definition. It's unlikely, but there might be lump sum payable from the pension on death.

I went through dealing with my Mum's estate a couple of years ago, and she was in care but she did did have a chunky sum in the bank so there we had to do probate. Check on this, but I think if there's less than £15K and no property etc then you don't need probate, however banks set their own limits and may demand probate even for lesser amounts.

Yeah read that bit over again and I'd say her state and private pension meets about half her care home costs. She has nothing left over from that each month and as she's deemed so rich she was never entitled to any benefits or pension credits.
Therefore she's to pay for absolutely everything herself out of her savings which over 5 years have depleted well below any probate level. In fact we chip in and pay for things too occasionally.
Always used to grind her gears that because she worked from 14-60, never had kids, bad health nor lied she got nothing because her and her husband paid into a pension which is only £400ish a month!
Anyway that's another story altogether.

[MercedesClassic]

Sheepshanks said:

Are social services involved at all?

Not sure what you mean, do you mean has she been visited to discuss her eligibility for benefits etc? If so then yes she has. Albeit in the past when she lived independent in a managed Fold. She'd be able to come and go as she pleased and looked after her own flat. She was one of the few that paid their own rent in it.

We enquired several times from different organisations, SS, Age Concern and CAB in her suitably etc. I think it was the charity who sent a lady out to fill in the forms. I was there to help with the answers as she was early stages of dementia. Although probably not diagnosed until much later.
Although at that time she was 85ish and mobile and had a bit of savings and modest pension so she wasn't eligible for anything.
She does now get her fees topped up in the home so at least that's something.

[MercedesClassic]

Sheepshanks said:

MercedesClassic said:

She does now get her fees topped up in the home so at least that's something.

That’s what I was alluding to. You said earlier she was paying everything herself.

In my original post this morning I said that her income mostly covers her care. I later corrected that to say it's about half covered. However as the fees have been increasing above inflation much more than her pension has then her percentage contribution has probably decreased somewhat.
No idea what her fees are now but about 2750-3000 per month.
However her contribution is 100% of her monthly income.

It's been a busy few days.

[MercedesClassic]

eliot said:

Different banks will release different amounts. I was executor for my mum last year. Lloyds will release up to 50k on death cert alone. nationwide wouldn’t release anything without probate.

Basically:
Death
Post Mortem (maybe)
Death Cert
Funeral
Get the Will
Sort out Inheritance tax (online) and obtain a code
Apply for Probate - only once any IHT has been settled
Put notices in the gazette (protects you against claims)
Sell any assets
Distribute funds

I did it all myself online - got probate within 6 weeks of mum passing. This included paying to get the solicitor removed from the will because they had named themselves as joint executors which was effectively preventing me from applying for probate, that cost £350 (they wanted £1800 to do the whole simple estate)

Basically if things are simple with a will etc it’s pretty easy to do online.

Thanks for taking the time to detail this it's most useful and empowering to feel I don't need the time and cost of a solicitor for something straightforward.
As someone mentioned earlier about banks releasing funds it seems to be different in each. There won't be any IHT thankfully, paid plenty of that previously.
Death and taxes!
Cheers.

[MercedesClassic]

brman said:

Robertj21a said:

Sheepshanks said:

Robertj21a said:

Either there's a bit of that story missing or the bank has probably acted illegally.

Don't know about the law but certainly I've done this twice and the accounts were frozen the moment I told the bank. My mum owed the care home about £6K (she paid fortnightly by cheque and had been too ill to pay, and then in hospital for a few weeks). Bank wouldn't even consider allowing them to be paid.

In the other case the bank were even bouncing incoming payments.

The bank acted correctly in both those situations.

Sorry, I was not clear- I did not identify my father or his account in that conversation so no, the bank did nothing illegal as they had not been formally informed of my fathers death. If I had done so I am sure the account would have been frozen then and there.
The point being that I wasn't pushed on the identity of my father and it was pretty clear to me the guy on the phone was not concerned I was taking a pragmatic rather than strictly by the rules approach.
This was my point really, you might want to take your time informing the bank as it is a pain the backside if the account is closed when there are still ligitimate outgoings that you have not had time to sort out. [/quote

Thanks for your reply sir and sounds like common sense prevailed for a change. Your advice is appreciated.