Anyone own some green belt?
Discussion
blueg33 said:
Over the years I have owned or controlled several hundred acres of greenbelt on the edge of settlements. I have also developed in greenbelt.
What are your questions?
Well, to give you some context... The current owners purchased a field in front of the house, which is designated greenbelt. The purpose of buying it was to secure their view into the future. It's about 1 acre on a gradient that slopes away from the house.What are your questions?
In order to keep it in a reasonable state, they divided it into two chunks with a fence. Top third for use as a vegetable and fruit growing area which is now neglected and overgrown. Bottom two thirds they have allowed someone to graze a horse for free, just to keep the grass down.
I am trying to work out what to do with this land if/when we move in. I don't think we want to retain the horse grazing, as it wouldn't feel like our land if someone else was using. But the obvious advantage of the horse is it's effectively a free lawn mower.
So, would I be allowed to mow the grass like a giant lawn, instead of grazing animals?
Would I be allowed to put a small picnic bench on there somewhere so we could eat out on sunny days?
Can I have any kind of shed/garage/carport? What about parking a vehicle, even if it's just on the grass? Could I level a small area to accomodate this? Could I put a bit of gravel down on a small parking space?
The obvious answer to the above is, speak to the local planners, but it's Sunday, so here I am!
Thanks for the quick response folks. A nice meadow it what we would love to end up with, but the gradient and the uneven nature of the ground might make maintenance a bit arduous. I don't know anything about mowing eneven terrain.
Heres the aerial view. A = the house, B = the overgrown vege/fruit zone, C = the grazed bit with some trees and bushes.
|http://thumbsnap.com/zHZ4wyCZ[/url]
If were to have a tractor/mower thing, would I be more likely allowed a small shed to store it in, in that it is directly connected to the maintenance of the land?
There is a large gate at the top, could anyone object to me parking my car inside the gate, on the basis I didn't build a drive or anything else?[url]
Heres the aerial view. A = the house, B = the overgrown vege/fruit zone, C = the grazed bit with some trees and bushes.
|http://thumbsnap.com/zHZ4wyCZ[/url]If were to have a tractor/mower thing, would I be more likely allowed a small shed to store it in, in that it is directly connected to the maintenance of the land?
There is a large gate at the top, could anyone object to me parking my car inside the gate, on the basis I didn't build a drive or anything else?[url]
netherfield said:
Who owns the fields around your plot, it's possible the local farmer would take the grass off C if he's taking the fields around.
Possibly you could put some reinforced grass down on the top section to park your car on,but could still get muddy in wet weather.
Not sure, the land was carved up when the farm was developed into a house. It must be owned by another farmer now, but who I don't know who or where. Something to look into if I don't want to mow it myself.Possibly you could put some reinforced grass down on the top section to park your car on,but could still get muddy in wet weather.
The reinforced grass is a good idea. They current owners did something similar with that anti-weed matting but they didn't maintainit and it's since grown over.
The Moose said:
That's not too much to cut, even without a ride on really
I've never even owned a garden before, so I've no idea about these things! The "problem" will be the gradient and unevenness I think. Whatever I do with it, I don't want maintenance to be too laborious. I don't mind spending a few days a month on it, but I don't want it to become a full time job.So, I basically have two things to address. How to legitimately make use of the top bit, park a car, maybe some storage for garden equipment. And what to do with the rest, so it's an attractive recreational space that wont be too much of a hassle to maintain.
AdeTuono said:
I've had this dilemna for the last 18 months; short answer is, speak to your planning department. Even then, you may get conflicting answers. I come under East Dorset, and have had some issues recently. One planning officer couldn't be more helpful; another has been an absolute a
hole.
I'm gradually turning around 10 acres from rough grazing land to a more 'lawned' appearance, and you should be fine with this. The issue will come with buildings and suchlike. I'm lucky enough to have a small lake at the far end of my property. I bought a bow-topped gypsy caravan to site next to the lake, where I can laze away sunny days and watch the fish. One of my neighbours, who has an axe to grind, (long story, and not for here...) complained, and I had a visit from the planners. I was told that I'm not allowed to have it there, as it isn't strictly necessary for the 'enjoyment' of the land. However, recognising that this is petty in the extreme, I was told that, should I keep some fish food inside the caravan, it then becomes a food store, and complies with the rules. As for buildings, you may get away with a field shelter, but it would need to be mobile, or at least built on a skid and hence towable.
It would probably help if you knew the curtilage of the property, as you're allowed to do much more on this.
Thanks. Are planning people happy to discuss ideas with you, or do they want firm applications in writing?hole.I'm gradually turning around 10 acres from rough grazing land to a more 'lawned' appearance, and you should be fine with this. The issue will come with buildings and suchlike. I'm lucky enough to have a small lake at the far end of my property. I bought a bow-topped gypsy caravan to site next to the lake, where I can laze away sunny days and watch the fish. One of my neighbours, who has an axe to grind, (long story, and not for here...) complained, and I had a visit from the planners. I was told that I'm not allowed to have it there, as it isn't strictly necessary for the 'enjoyment' of the land. However, recognising that this is petty in the extreme, I was told that, should I keep some fish food inside the caravan, it then becomes a food store, and complies with the rules. As for buildings, you may get away with a field shelter, but it would need to be mobile, or at least built on a skid and hence towable.
It would probably help if you knew the curtilage of the property, as you're allowed to do much more on this.
- I'm not an expert in any of this, and it may all be bks, but this is where I am.
When you say curtilage, do you mean the boundary of the house as opposed to the extra land? AIUI, the curtilage of the house ends at the border of the western edge of the field in the photo above. I.e. the green belt land is outside the curtilage of the house. I think...
kooky guy said:
I'd just keep the horse. Or even get more in and charge. It's very unusual to offer free grazing!
What's the going rate for grazing? Don't think the land is big enough for more than a couple of ponies.Grazing animals means the land is effectively off limits to me, and I like the idea of using it for something. Just not sure what that something is.
elanfan said:
Side issue - from the aerial photo it looks as though one of the neighbours has access to the field as there appears to be a bit of a path. Worth enquiring about whether they have any rights of way over it.
Is that the arc that separates "B from "C"? If it is, that is actually a fence. The ground looks trodden because the horse walks along it. The only access is from the road/drive directly in front of the house, which is a bridleway.Edited by blueST on Monday 8th October 15:54
LooneyTunes said:
Depends where you are, but in Cheshire I know people paying £25 - 50 per horse.
Probably a bit less up here in the Pennines then. Is that per week or month?LooneyTunes said:
If you're leaving horses turned out all the time, then you need to keep quite a low density of animals otherwise the place will get churned up more than you'd probably want (and even then, areas by gates can still end up a bit swampy if you're not careful).
Even with just one horse on it now, it nicely churned up at the gate. I'm guessing it's two horses max.LooneyTunes said:
In terms of mowing, I know one chap who essentially treats about 20 acres as a lawn without an issue. He seems to like nothing more than trundling up and down with his tractor.
This appeals to me a lot too. I don't think a regular garden tractor would be up to the job though, due to the gradient and uneven ground.LooneyTunes said:
Regarding buildings, check out permitted development (especially with respect to field shelters and barns) and temporary structures. Can surprising what you put on agricultural land.
I'm going to ring the planners this week and see if they will give me a bit of off the record guidance. At the very least I'd like somewhere to store a mower and other garden tools securely, and ideally space (not necessarily covered) for one car.Fingers crossed we'll be moving in during winter so I'll have a few months to plot and scheme before grass starts growing.
mx5cl said:
It all depends on the authority, some are quite happy to discuss matters informally and quite openly (although they will be careful to state that it is their own professional opinion, thus no guarantee) and offer advice whilst others will direct you down a more formal route of submitting requests for advice in writing and some may try to charge for the service.
It's the former I'm hoping for at this stage, we'll see how I get on this week.mx5cl said:
In your case I would have thought area A could be considered residential curtilage whilst as you suspect B and C, which have a degree of separation would not. Residential curtilage obviously enjoys certain permitted development rights, as does agricultural land, however this depends on the size of the agricultural unit and I suspect that owing to its size, this land may not enjoy any real agricultural permitted development rights.
In terms of the curtilage, that's exactly how I understand it to be. Prior to the land being bought by the current owner, it was part of a much larger farm so I hold some hope it may have agricultural rights. Which brings me on to...mx5cl said:
If you want further generic information on green belt and the considerations relating to it, google "National Planning Policy Framework" and look at paras 79-81 & 87-90.
From a look at this policy, "buildings for agriculture and forestry" may well be permissible. So that gives me hope that I could have a store for equipment needed for maintaining that piece of land, which would be good. Clearly, it would need checking out thoroughly, but there is hope.Thanks for taking the time to reply
russ_a said:
I would create an Orchard if it was mine, maybe with a nice pond at the bottom.
Possibly a ridiculous notion, but I can well imagine a widely space orchard, with me trundling between the rows of trees on my little tractor. It's fairly exposed up there, so I'm not sure what would grow.AdeTuono said:
Get one! This is my '59 David Brown. Bought it last year for around £1600. Hitch a topper to the back and drag it round. Plus, with the loader, I can pull engines out as well. As said, indestructible. I don't need it, but I want it, and will spend some time over the winter tinkering.
1point7bar said:
IIRC
The agricultural buildings planning exemption is for holdings at one site of more than 5ha.
You can get workshops,barns etc in smaller fields, if you earn a living from farming/forestry and can prove a need.
We would be well under 5Ha with that plot, and we wont be running a business growing stuff, so planning permission is likely to be needed then. Even with permitted development, your still supposed to get a certificate of compliance or something, so even that's not totally hassle free.The agricultural buildings planning exemption is for holdings at one site of more than 5ha.
You can get workshops,barns etc in smaller fields, if you earn a living from farming/forestry and can prove a need.
LooneyTunes said:
Glad to be of assistance! 
Bits are usually pretty cheap and domestic use means nothing ever gets too stressed on them. Only thing you might want to consider if you're using for the odd job here and there is a battery conditioner.
Not sure if you're aware, but if you're lucky you can sometimes find tracked ones too.... I've no real use for one but may yet pull the trigger. After all, what's not to like about tracks?
I was eyeing up the Fordson Super Major in the PH classifieds. It got a front loader and rear forklift and everything!Bits are usually pretty cheap and domestic use means nothing ever gets too stressed on them. Only thing you might want to consider if you're using for the odd job here and there is a battery conditioner.
Not sure if you're aware, but if you're lucky you can sometimes find tracked ones too.... I've no real use for one but may yet pull the trigger. After all, what's not to like about tracks?
mx5cl said:
No problem, it seems to me you have some realistic ideas that on the whole should be feasible, good luck with talking to your local planners, let us know how you get on!
Spurred on by the news we should be in by December :wishfullthinkingsmiley: I spoke to the council planners yesterday. They were very helpful sounding, but basically said I have to work on the assumption they wont let me put any sort of structure up, and then it's down to me to figure out how to convince them otherwise.I wouldn't have any permitted development rights as it's not a working farm. She did say that if I submitted some basic plans of what I wanted to do, they would be happy to come to site, and give me an indication of how I might be able to get permission, or explain why I've got no chance! At the very least I would have to show that absolutely everything was done to minimise the visual impact of the building and that it was a necessity rather than a luxury.
I wanted to talk about some other stuff but didn't have time, will probably leave it until we're in before pursuing any further.
Well, we've been in over a month now and I still haven't a clue what to do with this field. It's very steep, too steep to safely operate a tractor on I would say. So that's my idea of riding round on an old Massey Ferguson canned. I'm going to chop a bunch of ugly connifers down to improve the view but I've no idea how I'm going to keep the grass under control with out keeping animals, which I dont want to do for now.
Anyone know how I go about creating and maintaining it as a wild flowery meadow type of thing? Would it still need periodic mowing?
Anyone know how I go about creating and maintaining it as a wild flowery meadow type of thing? Would it still need periodic mowing?
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