When did gardeners get so blooming ;-) expensive???
Discussion
We need a new set of gardeners and they are all asking £25/hr (Worcestershire) our last lot were £10/hr which was fair considering the fractional nature of the job and travelling time to the job.
What the actual hell! when did gardening suddenly become a 'skilled' job as opposed to running the mower round, strimming and pulling up weeds?
Does anyone actually pay that much?
What the actual hell! when did gardening suddenly become a 'skilled' job as opposed to running the mower round, strimming and pulling up weeds?
Does anyone actually pay that much?
Mr GrimNasty said:
Greg_D said:
We need a new set of gardeners and they are all asking £25/hr (Worcestershire) our last lot were £10/hr which was fair considering the fractional nature of the job and travelling time to the job.
What the actual hell! when did gardening suddenly become a 'skilled' job as opposed to running the mower round, strimming and pulling up weeds?
Does anyone actually pay that much?
£25/hr is cheap, all the overheads, downtime, etc. won't even make £2K a month before expenses/deductions.What the actual hell! when did gardening suddenly become a 'skilled' job as opposed to running the mower round, strimming and pulling up weeds?
Does anyone actually pay that much?
Any cheaper and you will be employing an illegal/dodgy bloke (unless semi-retired just doing it for a hobby).
Get sweaty yourself if you don't like it!
not cheap enough for a menial job
'work' 10 hrs/day to get 8 billed = £200/day
6 days a week is more than £5k/month gross
it doesn't cost that much to run a mower/strimmer!!!!
fido said:
Greg_D said:
it doesn't cost that much to run a mower/strimmer!!!!
Then get yourself a mower/strimmer. The fuel/oil/spares for your tools. Getting rid of the cuttings. And eventual backache/cold/scratched limbs .. then look for a gardener when you realise it isn't all that fun! 
Yes i'm a judgmental arse, but it is also the inconvenient truth of the matter. how is a gardener in any way more skilled than any number of people who work minimum wage in any other setting. name me a 'self employed' job with fewer barriers to entry..... it's bloody madness and if people talk themselves into paying it because of some misplaced social conscience, then they are a mug...
citizensm1th said:
I guess you will be doing your own garden and I also guess several gardeners local you you have had a lucky escape from coming into contact with a judgemental arse.
Who the f
k are you to tell someone what they can charge to provide a service, that is up to the market. i am sure none of your perspective least skilled gardeners will loose any sleep over you not engaging their services, they will move on to the person who is will to pay what they ask while you mow your own lawn.
'Citizen smith' - says it all really. I think you're reading WAAAAY too much into it. I'm in no way rude to anyone. I just don't accept that basic work is now £25/hr. you can project whatever image you like onto me but rebranding grounds maintenance as some sort of artisan occupation simply doesn't wash (and you'll notice that not one person has replied to this thread admitting to paying it)Who the f
k are you to tell someone what they can charge to provide a service, that is up to the market. i am sure none of your perspective least skilled gardeners will loose any sleep over you not engaging their services, they will move on to the person who is will to pay what they ask while you mow your own lawn. Time to climb down off your high horse and actually answer my question posed in my previous last paragraph.
shedweller said:
May ask what happened to the last "set" of £10phr gardeners you had???
Were they... Messy,unreliable,unskilled,rough thickos........ Cheap???
No, they were fine (the one was a bit lazy and spent a bit of time in the van, but not disastrous) they were son and father in law and as a family unit they took over a pub. The bloke before them was really good but went and worked full time for the council. Were they... Messy,unreliable,unskilled,rough thickos........ Cheap???
They've always been around the same money around here but rates seem to have gone into orbit recently.
I find the references to my house a bit amusing because that should make no difference to the price of the job nor my ability to pay. But it does. We notice a distinct uplift in price for anything once they come round so that is why I always get an indication of price in advance for anything to set the datum.
Anyway, I've got a chap starting on Monday via the job centre for £10/hr. I'll see how he goes
lunarscope said:
To those comparing a £15 per hour gardener to a £7.20 minimum wage employee: How much do you think it costs an Employer to employ that minimum-wage person ? Averaged over a year, I earn less than minimum wage for a job that is much harder than serving in a fast food outlet. I don't get paid for holidays, sickness or when the weather is bad.
Most gardeners don't earn that rate for 40 hours a week, 52 weeks of the year; to equate that £15 hourly rate with a £30K yearly salary is ridiculous. E.g., Many years ago I bought a £14000 car, assuming a 20% mark-up, that salesman is earning £2800 an hour. Nice work if you can get it !
If you want your gardener to earn only the minimum wage then the simple solution is to give them an employment contract and pay for: Employer's NI; 25 days paid annual leave; sickness cover; insurance; vehicle costs; tools and maintenance; fuel and consumables. I can guarantee it will cost you at least £15 an hour.
NI on a full week at minimum wage is £16. Stat illness is £50 odd a week if needed. 12% in lieu of holidays etc. Their vehicle is their own personal problem and allows you to be available for work in the first place so shouldn't be included in the rate. So no, the on-costs for someone doing 4 hours per week on an employed basis would be tiny. Approx £8/hr all in on a pro rata basisMost gardeners don't earn that rate for 40 hours a week, 52 weeks of the year; to equate that £15 hourly rate with a £30K yearly salary is ridiculous. E.g., Many years ago I bought a £14000 car, assuming a 20% mark-up, that salesman is earning £2800 an hour. Nice work if you can get it !
If you want your gardener to earn only the minimum wage then the simple solution is to give them an employment contract and pay for: Employer's NI; 25 days paid annual leave; sickness cover; insurance; vehicle costs; tools and maintenance; fuel and consumables. I can guarantee it will cost you at least £15 an hour.
Edited by lunarscope on Saturday 20th May 11:20
A number of contributors seem hellbent on making this about my ability to pay.
that is completely missing the point as far as I'm concerned it is about the correct rate for the job. If I earned a lot less, would it change the conversation?
if I was to take the same person to one of my building sites And get him to clear up for the day would I still be expected to pay £25 per hour?
what about if they came in the house and cleaned up as my cleaner does, would that also be £25 an hour?
what about if the same person was to go and look after the horses would that also be £25 an hour? of course it wouldn't..... but we would be talking about the same person with the same overheads, the same van. nothing has changed it is all about basic labour and basic labour has a set cost and it's not £25 an hour. To get back to the original question, what suddenly makes gardeners worth 3 times the wages of a labourer, a groom or a cleaning lady. They all work hard, run vehicles and have insurances and overheads to cover.
I would be thrilled to take home the same percentage of turnover as a gardener.
Ps for all the social justice warrior contributors, there still isn't anyone who has contributed to this thread that has admitted to paying these prices so my original observation that they are expensive seems pretty well founded.
that is completely missing the point as far as I'm concerned it is about the correct rate for the job. If I earned a lot less, would it change the conversation?
if I was to take the same person to one of my building sites And get him to clear up for the day would I still be expected to pay £25 per hour?
what about if they came in the house and cleaned up as my cleaner does, would that also be £25 an hour?
what about if the same person was to go and look after the horses would that also be £25 an hour? of course it wouldn't..... but we would be talking about the same person with the same overheads, the same van. nothing has changed it is all about basic labour and basic labour has a set cost and it's not £25 an hour. To get back to the original question, what suddenly makes gardeners worth 3 times the wages of a labourer, a groom or a cleaning lady. They all work hard, run vehicles and have insurances and overheads to cover.
I would be thrilled to take home the same percentage of turnover as a gardener.
Ps for all the social justice warrior contributors, there still isn't anyone who has contributed to this thread that has admitted to paying these prices so my original observation that they are expensive seems pretty well founded.
citizensm1th said:
Seeing as you did not answer my question i am going to assume you "need" your gardener 4 hours a week max
i am also assuming you will require him/her on a regular basis which would mean that they cannot take other employment offered by the job centre or they would let you down and no doubt we would hear you bhing about this too
so in effect you are asking the rest of us to subsidise through our taxes your menial gardener because you wont fork out the going rate in your area (remember you stated they all want £25 per hour).
lovely
What's it like On Your special cloud of self richeousness. Jeez, you're a piece of work aren't you. It's not up to me what happens supplementarily to my requirements. I've posted a job in good faith and received a few replies. i am also assuming you will require him/her on a regular basis which would mean that they cannot take other employment offered by the job centre or they would let you down and no doubt we would hear you b
hing about this tooso in effect you are asking the rest of us to subsidise through our taxes your menial gardener because you wont fork out the going rate in your area (remember you stated they all want £25 per hour).
lovely
Presumably he applies to all the fractional jobs going and makes the rest up via working tax credits. Who knows.
Unlike you, I'm not a judgmental d1ck and don't enquire!
citizensm1th said:
The reason i think your despicable is your belittling of people you see as less than you the menial types and your willingness to whine about the market rate being to high,so you proceed to try to undercut it and at the same time rely on the rest of us to top up the wages of those you denigrate.
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you are gaming the system to the benefit of only one person and sod the rest of society
Play the ball, not the man. Your comments and dispisal of me are wildly innacurate and unfounded. if only a few more people were 'gaming the system' as much as me then the country would be in a much better position.
I employ several thousand people, pay several hundreds of thousands of pounds a year in direct personal taxes, (before you get to Corp tax, vat and ENI) all my property development work focusses on affordable housing. I am not non-dom as would be my right as my wife was born in Gibraltar. My kids go to private school, I have private health insurance. I pay my way in society to an extent that you can only dream of and am proud to do so. Gaming the system!!! How dare you....
What others choose to do is between them and DWP.
akirk, you're wasting your time! the baying crowd are enjoying giving the 'snob' a good telling off too much to actually read what's in front of them or even try and take on board a different point of view.
As it happens, david number 1 came yesterday and did a perfectly good job. he's perfectly happy with the situation and i'll be seeing him every monday for the forseeable.
let me just put this here in support of the fact that there are plenty of people out there who can read a job description and decide that they are happy to do some basic labour for 30% more than minimum wage. they all proactively replied to the job over the course of a day or two....
ps, i'm not an estate agent, my property interests are generally new build affordable housing on brownfield sites.
That was the whole point of my recent posts, i'm not some sort of modern day mill owner looking to fiddle the system, i just thought that £25 was too much for a man to pull weeds and i've been character assassinated for it. It says more about the aggressors than me IMO...
'The market' appears to have spoken, and i was right....
As it happens, david number 1 came yesterday and did a perfectly good job. he's perfectly happy with the situation and i'll be seeing him every monday for the forseeable.
let me just put this here in support of the fact that there are plenty of people out there who can read a job description and decide that they are happy to do some basic labour for 30% more than minimum wage. they all proactively replied to the job over the course of a day or two....
ps, i'm not an estate agent, my property interests are generally new build affordable housing on brownfield sites.
That was the whole point of my recent posts, i'm not some sort of modern day mill owner looking to fiddle the system, i just thought that £25 was too much for a man to pull weeds and i've been character assassinated for it. It says more about the aggressors than me IMO...
'The market' appears to have spoken, and i was right....
talksthetorque said:
It appears some of your applicants are applying for vacancies, employment. Can we discount them or are you putting the job through the books?
The job was advertised as part time contract, the text stated a couple of hours a week and the rate put into the correct box. I couldn't have been any clearer. I pay bacs into their bank and have a receipt off them. There's no way I'm being accused of anything untoward. If they don't give me correct details then that is up to them. I do what I can within the general framework of self-employment.
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