Badly fitted Windows
Discussion
Hi Guys
I could so with some advice, as im getting told that theres nothing i can so and the standard of the install is "normal" and acceptable.
We had triple glazing fitted to the front,
2 large bay windows (7 panels)
small bay window
2 other smaller windows
total £8k
After the installation, the level of workmanship was appalling, you can see the images here: https://imgur.com/a/EPttN
we complained a number of times as they were being fitted.
Then the manager said "look i want you to be happy, so I will replace the 3 bay windows", we said, no and just fix the poor plastering and trimming. But he insisted.. (our theory as to why he wants to go for the more expensive option is that he knew of a fundamental installation problem, poss no supports added? as the 2nd install had round metal bars between the panes)
A few weeks later, the 2nd install started, yes poor install again, we complained.
This time, the bottom bay window was not plumb, and 2 of the windows closures would leave a gap when closed.
when we put a spirit level against the frame we could see the problem.
We complained, the manager came out to see and started to tinker and adjust the pins, we explained thats not going to work as the frame is not plumb, seemed to just ignore that and said he'll send the original fitters round to fix!
The fitters came, again tinkering with the windows closure pins, even tried to bend them! explained with the spirit level the problem, 1 worker who spoke no English, looked and nodded as in agreement to the problem, the other, English speaker suddenly was unable to speak english no more !
Rang the manager and said, tell your fitters to leave as they are just being silly now.
images here https://imgur.com/a/nJJIo
we now have noise, draughts (draughts from the beading also!) and all trimmings needing redoing.
we have contacted Fairtrade, who wasn't too pleased, Fensa - which i dont think we well get anywhere but did say he hasnt logged the completed install with them after 3 weeks gone now, and Consumer direct.
We've had 2 quotes from other Window companies to fix the issue. The Manager wants to come and see if he can fix the problem again, we said no, you have had enough chances.
But the feeling still seems that if we took them to court we would probably loose, and also been advised to get the windows fixed at out own cost and move on...
We just cant believe someone can come and do this to peoples homes !
many thanks for your time
Sanj
Is this the general feeling here, we wouldn't win..??
I could so with some advice, as im getting told that theres nothing i can so and the standard of the install is "normal" and acceptable.
We had triple glazing fitted to the front,
2 large bay windows (7 panels)
small bay window
2 other smaller windows
total £8k
After the installation, the level of workmanship was appalling, you can see the images here: https://imgur.com/a/EPttN
we complained a number of times as they were being fitted.
Then the manager said "look i want you to be happy, so I will replace the 3 bay windows", we said, no and just fix the poor plastering and trimming. But he insisted.. (our theory as to why he wants to go for the more expensive option is that he knew of a fundamental installation problem, poss no supports added? as the 2nd install had round metal bars between the panes)
A few weeks later, the 2nd install started, yes poor install again, we complained.
This time, the bottom bay window was not plumb, and 2 of the windows closures would leave a gap when closed.
when we put a spirit level against the frame we could see the problem.
We complained, the manager came out to see and started to tinker and adjust the pins, we explained thats not going to work as the frame is not plumb, seemed to just ignore that and said he'll send the original fitters round to fix!
The fitters came, again tinkering with the windows closure pins, even tried to bend them! explained with the spirit level the problem, 1 worker who spoke no English, looked and nodded as in agreement to the problem, the other, English speaker suddenly was unable to speak english no more !
Rang the manager and said, tell your fitters to leave as they are just being silly now.
images here https://imgur.com/a/nJJIo
we now have noise, draughts (draughts from the beading also!) and all trimmings needing redoing.
we have contacted Fairtrade, who wasn't too pleased, Fensa - which i dont think we well get anywhere but did say he hasnt logged the completed install with them after 3 weeks gone now, and Consumer direct.
We've had 2 quotes from other Window companies to fix the issue. The Manager wants to come and see if he can fix the problem again, we said no, you have had enough chances.
But the feeling still seems that if we took them to court we would probably loose, and also been advised to get the windows fixed at out own cost and move on...
We just cant believe someone can come and do this to peoples homes !
many thanks for your time
Sanj
Is this the general feeling here, we wouldn't win..??
unfortunately we have paid ! we refused the pay at first (4k last payment), but he got heavy with "as far as we are concerned its fitted and we have to pay or well take you to court"
we then paid - yes i know we shouldn't have ! but we never been in a situation like was a bit intimidated !
But we want to fight it but dont want to loose and pay their costs,
We had another Fitter today to give us a quote and asked him candidly what our chances are as he said he's seen similar cases and basically we have little chance of winning..!!
we then paid - yes i know we shouldn't have ! but we never been in a situation like was a bit intimidated !
But we want to fight it but dont want to loose and pay their costs,
We had another Fitter today to give us a quote and asked him candidly what our chances are as he said he's seen similar cases and basically we have little chance of winning..!!
Couple of issues, in case others are about to purchase windows ...
We paid by bank transfer, and should have used credit card and so are not covered, even a small deposit on the credit card would have had us covered.
We are in talks with Trading Standards, I just completed all documentation, dates, timelines, pics, email and text correspondence to be looked at by them.
If they say we have a good case then we will go to court for the full amount..
We've had 1 complete quote (£13.5K to replace all 3 bays), £5500 to replace the bottom bay, the quote also included an assessment of the work - which highlighted the non plumb fitting and poor trimmings, to fix the window closure would require a refit of the complete window.
This was sent to the original fitter - who said because they are competitors he doesn't have to take notice of them, and hes willing to come to fix the windows closure but not replace, we said no as thats not going to fix the problem unless you replace plus we wouldn't want you round again, he also said he should have charged us for the 2nd install !!
We had a 2nd fitter come to give us a quote yesterday - he was gobsmacked at the work - his advice was that they wont take assessment from any window fitter and we would have to get a independent survey done which could cost from £500-750. Plus little chance of wining the case.
Our best bet is
Under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, any double glazing installation should:
1 .Be done using ‘reasonable care and skill’
2. The window"s should be made with materials that are ‘of satisfactory quality’ and ‘fit for their purpose’
3. Be ‘as described’ - eg, what you ordered.
emphasis on point 1.
We have till Friday to reply to him with out intentions....im just gathering as much information and guidance as i can, and for this I thank you all
regards
We paid by bank transfer, and should have used credit card and so are not covered, even a small deposit on the credit card would have had us covered.
We are in talks with Trading Standards, I just completed all documentation, dates, timelines, pics, email and text correspondence to be looked at by them.
If they say we have a good case then we will go to court for the full amount..
We've had 1 complete quote (£13.5K to replace all 3 bays), £5500 to replace the bottom bay, the quote also included an assessment of the work - which highlighted the non plumb fitting and poor trimmings, to fix the window closure would require a refit of the complete window.
This was sent to the original fitter - who said because they are competitors he doesn't have to take notice of them, and hes willing to come to fix the windows closure but not replace, we said no as thats not going to fix the problem unless you replace plus we wouldn't want you round again, he also said he should have charged us for the 2nd install !!
We had a 2nd fitter come to give us a quote yesterday - he was gobsmacked at the work - his advice was that they wont take assessment from any window fitter and we would have to get a independent survey done which could cost from £500-750. Plus little chance of wining the case.
Our best bet is
Under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, any double glazing installation should:
1 .Be done using ‘reasonable care and skill’
2. The window"s should be made with materials that are ‘of satisfactory quality’ and ‘fit for their purpose’
3. Be ‘as described’ - eg, what you ordered.
emphasis on point 1.
We have till Friday to reply to him with out intentions....im just gathering as much information and guidance as i can, and for this I thank you all
regards
Hey rfisher
thanks for that lead...
we have just contacted esure, they have asked us to send them all the details to them, to see what they can do for us.
The guy wasn't able to give us the exact cover we have said send the documentation and he'll get back to us.
If covered , they will handle the case for up to £30k if we have a case, but i suppose this takes it out of the small claims court...
will update when we have more info but says get more quotes and we need to recover for the whole amount plus time spent trying to fix it.....
regards
thanks for that lead...
we have just contacted esure, they have asked us to send them all the details to them, to see what they can do for us.
The guy wasn't able to give us the exact cover we have said send the documentation and he'll get back to us.
If covered , they will handle the case for up to £30k if we have a case, but i suppose this takes it out of the small claims court...
will update when we have more info but says get more quotes and we need to recover for the whole amount plus time spent trying to fix it.....
regards
yes Fensa registered, we rang them yesterday to complain, they said they have no record of our work as hes not registered it with them. That was 3 weeks ago when we paid in full.
Fensa said they will contact them as to why its not registered! We will insist on an inspection whether it helps our case or not !
more and more i look at the state of those windows the more determined we are they cant get away with it.
Fensa said they will contact them as to why its not registered! We will insist on an inspection whether it helps our case or not !
more and more i look at the state of those windows the more determined we are they cant get away with it.
i think you may be right ! we may just have to take the hit,
We have 2 windows companies coming round tonight who also are willing to look at a repair, to see if they can at least fix it so the at the 2 windows close correctly.
I have a theory now what I think is wrong.
The metal support bar between the frames is possibly twisted.. if they can twist it back slightly I think the window will close.
if the frame was equally not plumb, the windows should still close correctly ?
With new sills and trim, may be for a reasonable cost ?? will have to see.
The rest of the mess I will just have to fix myself....
We have 2 windows companies coming round tonight who also are willing to look at a repair, to see if they can at least fix it so the at the 2 windows close correctly.
I have a theory now what I think is wrong.
The metal support bar between the frames is possibly twisted.. if they can twist it back slightly I think the window will close.
if the frame was equally not plumb, the windows should still close correctly ?
With new sills and trim, may be for a reasonable cost ?? will have to see.
The rest of the mess I will just have to fix myself....
Thanks for the advice, we will get everything together before we decide what we will do..
Please feel free to use any of the pictures.
As someone said earlier we picked the cheapest, we actually didn't, We had 3 quotes all the £8k mark. This guy added a few extras and we visited his factory, all looked good, so he was actually the most expensive by a few hundred pounds,
By the end of the weekend I should have 4 quotes; and non of these are from the checkatrader sites. 2 from local websites and 2 from down the road.
Once its all over, I will put some pics up of the fix and house, and location (its obviously London with these quotes!), to put everything in context of the costs of these windows, its a big house!
regards
Please feel free to use any of the pictures.
As someone said earlier we picked the cheapest, we actually didn't, We had 3 quotes all the £8k mark. This guy added a few extras and we visited his factory, all looked good, so he was actually the most expensive by a few hundred pounds,
By the end of the weekend I should have 4 quotes; and non of these are from the checkatrader sites. 2 from local websites and 2 from down the road.
Once its all over, I will put some pics up of the fix and house, and location (its obviously London with these quotes!), to put everything in context of the costs of these windows, its a big house!
regards
Hi guys
We are in the process of getting quotes to replace the windows.
2 issues have been pointed out
1) The upstairs bay windows do not have fire escape hinges and break building regs.
2) The support poles between the window panes on both top and bottom, do not seem to be fixed to any bricks, as can been seen when one of the fitters put a filler knife all the way through it..
see https://imgur.com/a/44xM3
can there be any other reason for this?
many thanls
We are in the process of getting quotes to replace the windows.
2 issues have been pointed out
1) The upstairs bay windows do not have fire escape hinges and break building regs.
2) The support poles between the window panes on both top and bottom, do not seem to be fixed to any bricks, as can been seen when one of the fitters put a filler knife all the way through it..
see https://imgur.com/a/44xM3
can there be any other reason for this?
many thanls
guys current update.
We sent a full document report to the fitter with all the timeline of communications and pictures (created by me), he commented on all pictures, loads he says have been fixed, but they haven't and are current pictures. He doesn't know as he did bother doing a final visit..
He wants to come round ASAP to investigate and fix.
maybe because the report we made was so detailed that no one really could argue with the evidence.
we put pressure on Fensa, and in 2 weeks will have a RISA inspection carried out.
We also contacted our house insurance who say we have £50k legal cover and have requested our full report.
Citizens advice say if we need more info they will contact us, but the only to move that along is to attend and wait in a queue..
So, do we wait for all this to happen could drag on for months, or as some have mentioned take the hit and move on (tempting as we cant decorate and living on floorboards and have been since Feb). The average cost to replace 1 bottom bay window (from 5 quotes) is £5k, One fitter said he'll do i for £3.5k inc VAT with wooden sill and also wooden sill replaced on the upstairs bay
Really need to see was RISA say i think...
Yes checkatrade may take you up on that offer - thanks
We sent a full document report to the fitter with all the timeline of communications and pictures (created by me), he commented on all pictures, loads he says have been fixed, but they haven't and are current pictures. He doesn't know as he did bother doing a final visit..
He wants to come round ASAP to investigate and fix.
maybe because the report we made was so detailed that no one really could argue with the evidence.
we put pressure on Fensa, and in 2 weeks will have a RISA inspection carried out.
We also contacted our house insurance who say we have £50k legal cover and have requested our full report.
Citizens advice say if we need more info they will contact us, but the only to move that along is to attend and wait in a queue..
So, do we wait for all this to happen could drag on for months, or as some have mentioned take the hit and move on (tempting as we cant decorate and living on floorboards and have been since Feb). The average cost to replace 1 bottom bay window (from 5 quotes) is £5k, One fitter said he'll do i for £3.5k inc VAT with wooden sill and also wooden sill replaced on the upstairs bay
Really need to see was RISA say i think...
Yes checkatrade may take you up on that offer - thanks
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