Neighbour wanting a front extension, not pleased.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

OK. Our terraced neighbour is wanting a front UPVC extention, the full width of his house. From what has been suggested about 2 metres deep. Whilst we've never liked the idea (it shall look crap in our opinion) we have never voiced this, as we've been of the mindset of 'it's his house'. Pictures of the two properties are below. Ours is the one on the left. Internally they are L shaped, narrow front/wide front, wide back/ narrow back, so from the drain pipe right all is his, up to the cream fence behind the BMW.

We've been of the thoughts that said extension shall presumably end between our front doors. No, he thinks differently. His words to me last night were 'my internal wall ends here, so to maximise my space I shall be extending to here'. Here being bang to the left of our slate house number sign. Out dog walking last night, looking at same examples of ours, we could see some replaced roofs, showing that he is correct in as much as that is where his house ends, and ours begins.

What our issue is is A) the way he laid it down as fact, that this is what is happening. We are very accommodating neighbours. For example, he has a monstrosity of a wooden workshop in his back garden, taking up literally two thirds of his garden. We know for a fact that it is about 3 foot taller than regs allow you to build. We've never complained, even though he built the thing without chatting to us, and we have to stare at the ruddy eyesore everytime we're in the garden (we're going to screen it when we get on with the garden)

And B) that it is such an inconsiderate proposal in our opinion. We shall walk out of our front door, to be faced with a plastic monstrosity literally 6 inches from our front door. It shall ruin our front aspect.

At this point I shall say that we have OK neighbourly relations with him and his wife. We stop to chat, we ask after each other, even though to some extent we tolerate him, as he's pretty bombastic.

We're not sure how to broach it with him. We've decided that when the time comes it is better that S speaks with him. He's the sort of bloke who I could lose my cool with, she won't.

The other point to mention that in our deeds the front of the terrace is deemed to be communal. It's not treated as such, but we do share the front gate. I would imagine that ultimately if he insists that he is going to build up to that line we can pull the 'sorry, it's communal, we're not going to allow you to do that' line, but for the sake of relations that is the very last step to take.

Are there any regulations stating how close to our property he is allowed to extend to, does the fact that the front is communal carry weight?

Had he progressed to crack on and extend at a point half way between our houses - IE at the point of the waste pipe - we wouldn't be delighted, but 'his house' and all that. His exact words yesterday were 'I obviously want to maximise my square inches', yeah, and presumably in his head 'and yeah, and to fk with you'

TLDR: Neighbour wants to put large extension on his house, we think he's being inconsiderate.

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Tuesday 27th March 12:58

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Tuesday 27th March 12:59

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Probably half the village have built some sort of UPVC extension to their fronts, but more porches than this. If he digs his feet in which I can see him doing we SHALL veto it with this, but it shall likely fk up relations. Sarah will do the talking as he's meeker with her, and she's a gentle soul. IE if he bullied her I'd have him, doubt he would though, he'd try to me.

Looking for how to broach this, other angles, and how to not make things difficult for ourselves. Until now we've rubbed along fairly nicely.

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Tuesday 27th March 13:15

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

kiethton said:

desolate said:

If the front terrace is communal he can't build there.

It is neither unneighbourly nor unreasonable of you to remind him of that.

This, and object in writing to the planning application as such

I understand that planning for this size of extension isn't required. The communal element is a different matter.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Some very useful points raised, thanks. A few answers and points. Firstly, to reiterate, he's looking at the extension being UPVC. I'm fairly sure the 'line' between the houses is what he says it as (circa 6 inches to the right of our door) as other houses of the same design in the village who have had new roofs, but their neighbours haven't end at this line.

Why does our door float? Can't say I ever noticed. That height is floor level inside.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

B17NNS said:

He's clearly not concerned about aesthetics judging by the hoofing great concrete lintel he's put above his new door (leaving the old one in place too).

It's going to look st and spoil your house.

Hope you manage to stop this without it damaging your relationship with him. You're between a rock and a hard place

The owner before him developed it. REALLY badly. I gather it was a bare shell restoration. The front is a mess yes, it was butchered. The bottom left window was a downstairs bathroom, but is now just an unusable space you walk in to.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

irocfan said:

out of curiosity could you argue that with such an extension so close to your house it could cause some sort of impediement to non able-bodied people being able to access your house?

And I do have a brother with Cerebral Palsy (truth) even if he's never here!

Truth be known, none of us treat the area as communal, we all treat each bit of land in front of our houses as our own yards. It more a case of be damned if he thinks he's going to build up to 6 inches from our front door without the slightest of consideration to us, and that it shall make our house look st! Our plan is also to make a side alley gate access point, it may be wise to put that on hold, it's actually been the next job on the list.

I've said to Sarah a number of time since last night, what got to me. I approached with where we could put a fence, between him and us, as per the above, putting in a side gate. You can just see on the nearer photo that we cut the concrete out the front making a line between 'his' yard and 'ours' below the pipe. I asked if he was OK with the fence post going buffed up to that concrete, and his response was 'no, my extension is going up to here, as that's my boundary line'. It's the bloody arrogance of it. How can he really think we'd be OK with an extension going to within 6" of our front door!!

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Bassetlaw. You local to recognise the house?

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

desolate said:

mk1fan said:

If the boundary line is 6-inches from your door then, bluntly, tough. They have the same rights as you with regards to their property.

If the OP is correct, they have no right to build on this part of their property at all

It is appearing so. Had he not took the piss and kept it within a sensible distance he'd have not rattled us. OK, we weren't chuffed with it, but 'his house' was our view. As far as we're concerned now he's adamant that he's extending to within 6" of our door - no discussion - we just need the tools to say 'no you're not', IF polite discussion doesn't work.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Gavia said:

FiF said:

Where is the permitted building line? Should show it on the papers when you bought the place. Any extension must NOT go beyond that line.

Also page 1 para 3
https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguid...

Does he fall foul of point 2 as well? You mention a big shed type building in his back garden that needs to be included on the max 50% increase in square footage from original house.

It shall be close. This is his house ad when he bought it. Pic 8 shows what was his back garden, an now there is a wooden workshop which starts about a metre from the back gate, and continues down to the end of the first red fence panel on the right. I think the fact that there is a 2 metre extension (IE not featured on the 1948 rule) which he didn't build will swing it in his favour. IF he went full on prick mode it is far taller than allowed, no doubt about this.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

irememberyou said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

It shall be close. This is his house ad when he bought it. Pic 8 shows what was his back garden, an now there is a wooden workshop which starts about a metre from the back gate, and continues down to the end of the first red fence panel on the right. I think the fact that there is a 2 metre extension (IE not featured on the 1948 rule) which he didn't build will swing it in his favour. IF he went full on prick mode it is far taller than allowed, no doubt about this.

Have you omitted a link there or have I misunderstood?

I did, yes!

here - http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatc...

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

mk1fan said:

desolate said:

mk1fan said:

If the boundary line is 6-inches from your door then, bluntly, tough. They have the same rights as you with regards to their property.

If the OP is correct, they have no right to build on this part of their property at all

Feel free to expand on that. Ignoring the communal status of the front yard that may or may not effect it. I'm curious to know where it is prescribed that an owner is prevented from building up to the boundary. It is the OP who said the boundary is within 6-inches of their door so they clearly think there is a boundary of some sort there. I have assumed that they mean a dividing boundary running perpendicular to the front elevation.

It is on our deeds as communal space. The consensus seems to be that this makes a difference, and he needs to consult us. Many also think planning is required. We think the very close proximity will be to our detriment, and that he's being selfish wanting to extend so close. If we have the tools to stop it, if sensible discussion doesn't work, then we'll use it. There is a physical boundary of where his house ends and ours begins, which I suspect he is correct at where it lies. This doesn't necessarily mean he can put a plastic monstrosity right up to it.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Gavia said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

It is on our deeds as communal space. The consensus seems to be that this makes a difference, and he needs to consult us. Many also think planning is required. We think the very close proximity will be to our detriment, and that he's being selfish wanting to extend so close. If we have the tools to stop it, if sensible discussion doesn't work, then we'll use it. There is a physical boundary of where his house ends and ours begins, which I suspect he is correct at where it lies. This doesn't necessarily mean he can put a plastic monstrosity right up to it.

You need to remove the emotion from your objections. Words like “selfish” and something “being to your detriment” don’t actually hold any sway when it comes to this stuff. It’s all about them complying with the rules or not.

A very true post. We'll try the polite neighbourly talk way, but it appears we have a strong case to object, from a rules point of view. Can anyone give a cast iron answer if building regs say if he needs planning or not?

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

FiF said:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but this is the street view of the terrace block. Op and neighbour in question off to the left out of shot.

I don't see any porches etc on any other property, and seeing how close they are to the road imo there is absolutely no chance any *front* extension would ever receive permission. Or??

On the opposite side, probably 100 metres up there are 3-4 porches, but not full width, not hindering access.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

was8v said:

He defo needs planning permission to do that.

Did the other people in the street who did this get permission? If so he might well get it.

If the land is communal (check your deeds) and you have a right of access to the gate, then he can't do it. But it might be an expensive road to go down if he does build.



Why not do the same to your house....propose something more tasteful and convince him to do the same given you will be sharing costs?

100% certain, it is communal to the front. We wouldn't want to do anything to the front of our house. The main living quarters are too the rear, the front room is a best/home cinema room. Plus we like the front aesthetic, and are about to get a nice wooden door with Victorian style glass fitted.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Inkyfingers said:

If you have an objection, it's best to air it politely now, rather than wait until they've expended time and money on it.

Do your research first and try and keep it fact based to start with, i.e @you can't do this because it's communal area", or "you need to get planning for that", rather than telling him straight away that it will look rubbish (even if it certainly will).

I don't envy you having a neighbour who would even consider such an abomination.

We're going to broach it carefully and politely, but I suspect as far as he's concerned he's doing it. I think if we could be sure planning is required, and/or that the communal land can't be built on we can state the 'play nice, or we'll ensure that nothing gets put up.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

FiF said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

On the opposite side, probably 100 metres up there are 3-4 porches, but not full width, not hindering access.

Ah ok gotcha. Are those front gardens deeper, ie building line further back from road. I reckon one of those is dodgy for size too.

I couldn't say in all certainty without a tape measure, but they've always looked pretty similar size to ours.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

B17NNS said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

I think if we could be sure planning is required

You can be sure.

https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguid...

How far from the road is your front door?

Edited by B17NNS on Tuesday 27th March 18:40

I can measure, but not at the mo as he's out there fiddling with his car! I would say best guess that the front gardens/yards are three metres deep, then a one brick deep wall, then a standard path, then the road.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

bennno said:

Planning required as its on the front, you can also flag up the 50% permitted development rule if his shed is as big as you have described....

That's the workshop. I suspect it's under 50%, but we're sure it's taller than allowed.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

I'm not sure what exactly the term 'fronting a highway' means, but there is a road in front of our house. From what I can tell from research a 'porch' construction can be no more than 3 metre squared, and no nearer than 2 metres from our boundary. If not, planning is required, and it seems not that easy to obtain, especially if there is an objection from a neighbour. Also, the monstrosity that he put up out the rear is at least 10 foot tall in parts, and regs say you need permission if a structure is taller than 8.2 (2.5 metres) tall. The fence panels are 6ft, with concrete bases approaching 2 feet, and it's towering above that.
We need to look further in to the communal element. Sarah was emailed by our solicitor when buying that it was communal.

We didn't object to that, even though it's ugly AF. If he did go full dick head we could request it to be pulled down, and he spent a year building the bloody thing.

Sarah is going to have an upfront chat with him, as I'm certain from the way he was carrying himself, IE 'my boundary's here, and that's where I'm building to', means planning isn't even on his radar. He shall be informed that we're not happy, and that if he wants to go down that route he'll need to get planning. I'm sure if we didn't we'd one day wake up to simply see him building it.

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Tuesday 27th March 21:15

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Tuesday 27th March 21:17

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

was8v said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Sarah is going to have an upfront chat with him

Brilliant, get your wife to do it, great PH response!

He definitely needs planning permission for more than 3m2 and depending on the ownership and rights on the land, he might need your permission too.

I struggle to deal with anyone who tries to insult me/ take me for a prick, call it what you want. I'd get to a point, especially with a character like him, where I'd lose my cool, which would be counter productive. He is taking the piss with his approach, IE 'this is what I'm doing' translation, to fk with you. I'd reach that point, where she'll probably kill it dead by making him feel stupid by highlighting the facts as they are.