low pressure on incoming water main
Discussion
Morning all,
I've got a single flat in a converted Victorian terraced house (comprised of one ground floor flat, one 1st floor flat).
A new tenant reported that the electric shower wasn't working. Interestingly, none of the previous tenants have ever reported an issue with the shower. When this was first reported the shower was replaced. The tenant then reported the new shower wasn't working but every time my plumber visited it WAS working. The tenant then claimed that the shower worked first thing in the morning but sometimes not at other times so the suspicion was a possible low pressure issue. This was backed up by running another tap when the the shower was on and causing the shower flow to drop right off.
Contacted the water supplier to carry out a free leak/pressure check. No leaks detected. The property is fed by a lead pipe from the main out in the street to the front porch where there is a stopcock that isolates the water to the entire property (ground floor/1st floor flats). After this stopcock, the feed into the property is a single modern MDPE blue pipe which runs into a utility room in the ground floor flat and then splits into two feeds; one feeding the ground floor flat (via water meter and stopcock) and one going up into the flat above and feeding that via another water meter upstairs and stopcock.
At the boundary of the property out in the street, the pressure is reportedly 2 bar with a flow of 25 litres/min. At the kitchen tap in the ground floor flat, the pressure is 1.5 bar with a flow of 8 litres/min. The report "suspects" that the old lead pipe from the main in the street up to the property is "not wide enough to give desired flow rate."
The report suggests 1 of 3 options to rectify:
1 Replace lead pipe from property to boundary
2 install new supply so each flat has it's own individual water supply
3 fit booster pump
Option 3 seems the best option in terms of quickness, cost, and lack of disruption, it would also mean not having to get the agreement of the other flat owner. Has anyone had any experience of these booster pumps? Can anyone recommend one? Is this option likely to cure this shower issue? Obviously there is a colossal price difference to fitting a pump compared to digging up the front of the property to replace old lead pipe, not to mention the front of the property is block paved for parking.
Would appreciate any help from others who have experienced low mains pressure.
Cheers
I've got a single flat in a converted Victorian terraced house (comprised of one ground floor flat, one 1st floor flat).
A new tenant reported that the electric shower wasn't working. Interestingly, none of the previous tenants have ever reported an issue with the shower. When this was first reported the shower was replaced. The tenant then reported the new shower wasn't working but every time my plumber visited it WAS working. The tenant then claimed that the shower worked first thing in the morning but sometimes not at other times so the suspicion was a possible low pressure issue. This was backed up by running another tap when the the shower was on and causing the shower flow to drop right off.
Contacted the water supplier to carry out a free leak/pressure check. No leaks detected. The property is fed by a lead pipe from the main out in the street to the front porch where there is a stopcock that isolates the water to the entire property (ground floor/1st floor flats). After this stopcock, the feed into the property is a single modern MDPE blue pipe which runs into a utility room in the ground floor flat and then splits into two feeds; one feeding the ground floor flat (via water meter and stopcock) and one going up into the flat above and feeding that via another water meter upstairs and stopcock.
At the boundary of the property out in the street, the pressure is reportedly 2 bar with a flow of 25 litres/min. At the kitchen tap in the ground floor flat, the pressure is 1.5 bar with a flow of 8 litres/min. The report "suspects" that the old lead pipe from the main in the street up to the property is "not wide enough to give desired flow rate."
The report suggests 1 of 3 options to rectify:
1 Replace lead pipe from property to boundary
2 install new supply so each flat has it's own individual water supply
3 fit booster pump
Option 3 seems the best option in terms of quickness, cost, and lack of disruption, it would also mean not having to get the agreement of the other flat owner. Has anyone had any experience of these booster pumps? Can anyone recommend one? Is this option likely to cure this shower issue? Obviously there is a colossal price difference to fitting a pump compared to digging up the front of the property to replace old lead pipe, not to mention the front of the property is block paved for parking.
Would appreciate any help from others who have experienced low mains pressure.
Cheers
Edited by Toilet Duck on Saturday 13th October 11:57
Edited by Toilet Duck on Saturday 13th October 11:57
dickymint said:
Not sure what you mean by a "booster pump" but i'm pretty sure you can't do it off the mains.
In my area (South Wales) the water board will replace lead pipes free of charge via some form of grant. HTH
Sorry, "home boost pumps" like what rfsteel linked to below your post. I hadn't heard of them before they were suggested in the report.In my area (South Wales) the water board will replace lead pipes free of charge via some form of grant. HTH
The area this property is in is served by Essex and Suffolk Water, and they won't help out with the bit of lead from the main to the house.
rfsteel said:
I've been looking into this recently, as I want to increase my flow from 8lpm, and too have a lead pipe from the meter to my property.
Been quoted around £1000 to mole in a new pipe, but this also involved lifting the kitchen floor.
You want to be to looking at Homeboost pumps.Salamander would be the cheapest solution, though favouring the Stuart Turner pumps for the completeness of the solution, really it comes down to where you can locate a pump near to the stopcock, also these solutions will only increase the flow to 12lpm max
Cheers, I'd looked at the screwfix offerings but don't know anyone who's actually used one. I suspect what's happening in my situation is that when the electric shower is being used, if someone in the upstairs flat puts the washing machine on/has a shower etc then that knocks the flow down and the shower downstairs trips on low flow. Been quoted around £1000 to mole in a new pipe, but this also involved lifting the kitchen floor.
You want to be to looking at Homeboost pumps.Salamander would be the cheapest solution, though favouring the Stuart Turner pumps for the completeness of the solution, really it comes down to where you can locate a pump near to the stopcock, also these solutions will only increase the flow to 12lpm max
I don't see how the pump can "pull" more water than the lead pipe feeding it can supply under it's own steam. Surely if it's flow is limited to 8l/min, "sucking" on it with a pump isn't going to overcome that bottleneck?
Also could I put the pump in the utility room where the feed splits so only the ground floor flat gets the benefit of the pump?
TooMany2cvs said:
That is a fair ol' drop.
Whose is the lead, if the main property stop valve is in the porch? It shouldn't be hard to measure the flow/pressure at the porch valve, which'll give you a definitive answer as to whether it's the lead or later.
One thing's for sure, the minute the L-word gets mentioned to the tenant, there's likely to be a fit of the vapours, so it might be worth a precautionary replacement - is it a long stretch?
The remaining lead bit between the water main in the street (boundary) and the porch at the front where it enters the property is the responsibility of the homeowner. Doesn't seem right to me but that's how it is.Whose is the lead, if the main property stop valve is in the porch? It shouldn't be hard to measure the flow/pressure at the porch valve, which'll give you a definitive answer as to whether it's the lead or later.
One thing's for sure, the minute the L-word gets mentioned to the tenant, there's likely to be a fit of the vapours, so it might be worth a precautionary replacement - is it a long stretch?
I estimate that the lead pipe run is maybe 8 metres max but not sure where in the street it terminates. If the tenant got funny about there being lead and that everyone is going to die etc then i believe the water supplier will come and take a water sample and see if the lead content is below the legal limit. They put phosphoric acid into the water treatment process anyway to counteract plumbsolvency so it's not really an issue.
megaphone said:
I paid £400 for a new pipe to be 'moled' under the front garden, total pipe length was about 30m. This was done by an independent contractor. I did have the floor up in the front room at the time which made things easier.
Can I ask whereabouts in the country are you? Are independent contractors allowed to just dig up the road/tap into water mains etc, or do they have to go through the water supplier first?Edited by Toilet Duck on Saturday 13th October 13:07
Just thought I'd provide a mini update in case anyone else has a similar issue.
I rang up Stuart Turner about their mains booster pumps. They CANNOT boost flow, only pressure, so aren't suitable for what I need. If you put a storage tank inline then, and only then, will it increase flow (until the tank empties).
For what that's going to cost plus the footprint that the storage vessel will take up, think I'm going to bite the bullet and fix the actual problem i.e. get a new pipe moled in and replace the lead section. Now the fun begins with the tradesman lottery trying to find someone who won't rip me off/f
k it up 
I rang up Stuart Turner about their mains booster pumps. They CANNOT boost flow, only pressure, so aren't suitable for what I need. If you put a storage tank inline then, and only then, will it increase flow (until the tank empties).
For what that's going to cost plus the footprint that the storage vessel will take up, think I'm going to bite the bullet and fix the actual problem i.e. get a new pipe moled in and replace the lead section. Now the fun begins with the tradesman lottery trying to find someone who won't rip me off/f
k it up Jasandjules said:
What is the pressure at your stop cock?
Unless the pipework is 1/100th inch I suspect a booster will push the water hard enough to work.
All the info I have about pressure etc is in the 1st post. They didn't measure the pressure at the stopcock, but at the kitchen tap it's 1.5 bar and flow of 8 litres/min. The shower (Bristan Glee) requires min 0.7 bar.Unless the pipework is 1/100th inch I suspect a booster will push the water hard enough to work.
I was really hoping that a mains booster pump would work, but stuart turner have said it won't "fix" the electric shower issue I have without a storage tank
Cheers
twokcc said:
Cant see advantage of mole unless you've got obstruction( wall footings etc.) Just take easiest route for trench
Both worked fine- may want to think about water metres on each supply.
Reason for wanting it "moled" is because the front of the property is all block paved and I'm concerned if it's dug up it won't go back down the same Both worked fine- may want to think about water metres on each supply.
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