Help me object to a new care home being built next door

[rich350z]

Hi all,

I rarely post but love reading the threads on this part of pistonheads, so wondered if anyone had any advice about objecting to the planning application that has gone in for next door.

There is a large care home next door now but it is 99% single story so we can only see the top half of the roof from our ground floor rooms & garden. The new one is planned to be a 3 story building.

I hate being a NIMBY, but also don't like the idea of such a large building being built next door, massively overshadowing our house and garden. They will be able to see into every room in our house, both front and back from the new first floor, not to mention all our garden.

We are Bracken Lodge, 1 Harvest Close, directly to the North of it.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, any help would be much appreciated.

Richard




Below is a link to the actual application plus some pics of it to save clicking if you don't want to.


https://planningaccess.york.gov.uk/online-applicat...

Edited by rich350z on Wednesday 16th January 22:33

[rich350z]

thebraketester said:

Where do you get three stories from? Only 2 on the plans

If you look at the elevations there are windows on the 2nd floor. I only attached pics of the ground and first floor, the 2nd floor is predominantly in the roof.

[rich350z]

Mikebentley said:

BUPA purchased a detached house opposite me years ago and land. They built a 65 room care home in its place. Problems we have are parking mainly and intrusive lighting. They have 65 rooms and staffing to suit and only 12 spaces. Exterior lighting had to be toned down too as it’s like midday outside at midnight. Good luck but these groups have lots of legal support.

Thanks for the info, i hadn't thought to count the car parking spaces. I will now.

[rich350z]

Lemming Train said:

Yes, but those are not on the north elevation are they, so they won't affect you.

Yes the 2nd floor wont over look us really, but the first floor will, a lot.

[rich350z]

thebraketester said:

Only on the front elevation though if a am reading correctly..

Looks like the new building will be further away from the boundary too.

It’s a bit annoying as they could almost certainly build it all on one level but I am guessing building up is cheaper than a bigger footprint.

Yes you are correct, and yes the new building is set back a couple of meters from the boundary, so it could be worse.

However we will be overlooked by a huge buildings (relative to our quiet village) 1st floor.

[rich350z]

Pigdoguk said:

Where should it go instead out of interest?

Next door to you?

I have no problem with the current care home next door as it's singe story, what i don't like is the possibility of being over looked and the rooms looking into our bedrooms, not to mention our garden.

[rich350z]

Chainsaw Rebuild said:

I cant tell from the plans (and to be honest I have had couple of beers) but if there are any trees can you put preservation orders on them? Then at least that might provide some barrier. Good luck with this, it must be unpleasant to learn a big building might be going up next door.

Thanks, it was a shock when we got home this evening.

[rich350z]

Rosscow said:

Just had a very brief look at the application.

On a positive note, the new care home will have less bedrooms than the current one, so if anything traffic may be reduced slightly?

Good luck OP

Thank you, yes its something like 8 bedrooms smaller.

The current one has had bad reviews in the press and always seemed half empty so I assume that the new one would probably be a nicer place for the residents so will be a lot busier.

[rich350z]

thebraketester said:

The worst bit of it will be the build. Once it’s built you’ll forget about it in no time.

What do the rest of the local residence think?

Yeah hopefully i'm worrying over nothing.

We only bought this house 18 months ago to give our daughter the best start in life (good school catchments) and it's been quite a stretch financially. I'm quite confident in saying that we wouldn't have bought it if this building had already been next door.

I've only spoken to a couple of neighbors and they are of the same mind as me, that its out of keeping with our residential street.

[rich350z]

Pothole said:

If they're oldies they won't be able to see the curtains in their own windows let alone into yours.

Ha, made me smile.

[rich350z]

Hoofy said:

I don't know if this is any help but it may well be worthwhile considering the kind of people living there. If they are mainly elderly, they will just be staring up at the ceiling from their beds so you're very unlikely to have people actually stand at the window and look down into your garden as you sunbathe.

Also, having a look at gmaps, you already have neighbours who can see into your back garden.




On the other hand, if it's mainly people who are physically capable but mentally unable to look after themselves, you may see a lot of old blokes' willies.

Edited by Hoofy on Wednesday 16th January 23:02

Yes we are overlooked but not anything like to this extent.

As I said its all a bit of a shock so i might be over worrying about it all, but it is a bloody big building to have next door.

Hopefully no willies will be seen!

[rich350z]

Antony Moxey said:

A bit trite but if they flipped the floor plans with the centre line of the flip being an east-west line then the building would be a fair distance from your property while still maintaining all its planned dimensions. Obviously it would move it closer to your neighbours to the south, but the only building they'd appear to be overlooking would be their garage.

Yes this would be better (for me!), but the direction of the sun means that the building is better the way its been designed, unfortunately.

[rich350z]

Alucidnation said:

Surely you would have found out about this whilst purchasing the property?

No the planning application only went in yesterday.

May be i wasn't clear, I'm looking for advice in objecting to the planning application.

Thanks.

[rich350z]

blueg33 said:

To be honest the proposal is pretty good use of the site and overall a much better design than the existing care home.

I think that is you really want to object, you focus on the massing of the front elevation as that is considerably bigger the the existing development and out of keeping with the character of the rest of the road by virtue of its size. The separation distances between the windows on the development and neighbor's habitable rooms look to be acceptable under the planning policies.

Having said that, as a developer of retirement living, supported living and care homes, I would have done much the same design and would be confident of getting consent. (In 20 developments pa for the last 5 years we have only had 1 refusal).

At 58 bedrooms the economic model for a care home is barely viable, you are lucky that they haven't done more on the second floor.

I currently have an application running in York on a similar type of road (not this one). Our massing is similar and officers support the proposal.

Thanks for your reply.

I've a couple of questions though if you don't mind. One thing that i had thought of already is the 2nd floor; I know you can't predict what the developer is thinking, but with them using the second floor at the front of the building and the ridge height being the same all along the building, what is to stop them from putting a couple of Velux's in the rest of it and then using this space later?

I'm meeting the planning officer here tomorrow, is it as simple as asking him directly if he supports it or not? Will they answer, or do you know because this is what you are paid to 'know'?

Thanks

[rich350z]

Equus said:

Parking provision is a simple calculation - they're unlikely to have got it wrong.

You're not going to get far with any of the other issues there, either. Note that noise and disturbance from construction impacts carry very little weight (although the Planners can ask for Site Management Plans and limit working hours) - and you're not realistically going to be able to argue operational noise impact from a nursing home; the residents are unlikely to be partying into the early hours on a regular basis.

Avoid anything that's not a material consideration - the Planners simply aren't allowed to give such things any weight, and it just makes you look like a NIMBY.

As blueg33 has said, you might try making an argument on scale and massing of the building being out of keeping with the streetscape, and perhaps with the dominance of the parking, but scale and massing is weak, since it's set back so far from the street frontage, and parking can easily be addressed with a bit of tree planting to break things up.

...but to be honest, it looks like a pretty reasonable scheme, and I'd expect it to be passed without too much difficulty.

Thanks for the link and the benefit of your experience in these matters.

[rich350z]

I don't know if it makes any difference but an application to build a similar sized care home about 50m away was turned down in 2009 and again by appeal in 2010. Could this be any basis for my argument to turn this down?

https://planningaccess.york.gov.uk/online-applicat...

REASONS FOR REFUSAL:
1 It is considered that the proposal, by virtue of the size and extent of the building footprint
and its excessive scale and massing, would adversely affect the amenity and outlook of the
occupiers of adjacent residential properties and would be unduly harmful to the character and
appearance of the area. Thus it would conflict with Central Government advice on design contained
within Planning Policy Statement 1 ("Delivering Sustainable Development") and policies GP1, GP10
and C1 of the City of York Draft Local Plan.

[rich350z]

Equus said:

There's no reason he shouldn't answer, assuming he has actually formed an opinion already (but do bear in mind that many Planners like to simply collate all the information they can, including statutory consultee and public responses, before they even so much as look at the plans, so it's possible that he genuinely hasn't formed an opinion yet).

Also bear in mind that he'll have a Team Leader, who he will sit down and review the application with before finalising his recommendation, and quite often the Team Leader's views will differ, or influence the Case Officer. And Staututory Consultee responses also carry a lot of weight, and he may not know what those are yet... so he will probably be reluctant to commit himself too firmly, at this stage, even if he does have views of his own.

But in due course, he'll be writing an 'Officer Report', which will give his recommendation on whether to approve or not, and set out in considerable detail his reasoning behind that recommendation. This is a public document; there for everyone to see.

Ok, thank you that makes sense, this is all new to me.

[rich350z]

Equus]uinny100 said:

Perhaps some additional planting along the boundary with your garden, although it’ll take a few years to establish.[quote]
Although bear in mind that it's the southern boundary of the OP's garden, so any substantial planting (and it would need to be substantial, to block the view form 1st floor windows) will throw shade in that direction.

And don't come back to us whining in 10 years time because you've got overhanging branches, or trees dropping leaves on your garden.

Ha

[rich350z]

Thanks all for taking the time to reply, it is much appreciated.

Does any one have any incite as to whether the fact that a similar application just down the same road was rejected?

https://planningaccess.york.gov.uk/online-applicat...

[rich350z]

So if anyone is interested here's a bit of an update to all this.

The original plans above were withdrawn as I believe they weren't going to be passed due to its size. The new plans submitted reduced the hight by about 500mm and width by 1m, so not enough to be too pleased about.

The planning officer has now recommended it for approval and it goes to committee tomorrow.

Not that I expect it to make any difference but I am due to speak (via zoom) in opposition to it at the meeting.

The thing that's niggling me is, what if its turned down. With the soon to be introduced new planning regulations, as its an empty commercial building, could we infact end up with a lot of homes being built on the site without the need for them to go through planning?

Is it a case of better the devil you know...

Any one got a crystal ball?