Balau decking problems after 6 months
Discussion
Hey all,
We had a yellow balau deck installed back in December, it hasnt been treated as they said to leave it for 6 months to grey out but since the spring started and warmer weather have noticed that screws are snapping and boards warping. I think half of the screws have snapped and replaced by the installers and even a few of those have snapped since.
Theres also some weeping/damp from the ends of some boards and also splinters are appearing on a couple of boards.
Any ideas? I checked with the supplier and they reakon it could be dampness under the boards, but theyre raised up 150mm at least . They also said hardwood screws should have been used by the installers.
Any suggestions , thanks.
We had a yellow balau deck installed back in December, it hasnt been treated as they said to leave it for 6 months to grey out but since the spring started and warmer weather have noticed that screws are snapping and boards warping. I think half of the screws have snapped and replaced by the installers and even a few of those have snapped since.
Theres also some weeping/damp from the ends of some boards and also splinters are appearing on a couple of boards.
Any ideas? I checked with the supplier and they reakon it could be dampness under the boards, but theyre raised up 150mm at least . They also said hardwood screws should have been used by the installers.
Any suggestions , thanks.
Yeah i`m thinking cheap screws have been used, I asked the local supplier as i had an invoice from delivery and it says yellow balau , cant be sure of its origin.
They have gone back to their supplier to check who have come back saying hardwood screws should be used. I also wonder if they werent pre-drilled originally?
They also said to check that the wood underneath isnt wet causing the warping, so thats something i`ll check. There is a weed prevention fibre sheeting underneath, maybe that is staying wet causing the distortion.
Question is , can it be fixed?
They have gone back to their supplier to check who have come back saying hardwood screws should be used. I also wonder if they werent pre-drilled originally?
They also said to check that the wood underneath isnt wet causing the warping, so thats something i`ll check. There is a weed prevention fibre sheeting underneath, maybe that is staying wet causing the distortion.
Question is , can it be fixed?
Ok thanks all, bit of head scratching trying to work out the info.
Boards are grooved underneath. Screwed down to treated timber 147*50mm I think ,then a weed protection cloth which the balau is layed on top of.
Seems conflict of information whether the screws are at fault or the wood. Does balau naturally bend, as I've read in two places that it doesn't naturally but another site said whilst storing if it bends then turn it over.
Cheers
Boards are grooved underneath. Screwed down to treated timber 147*50mm I think ,then a weed protection cloth which the balau is layed on top of.
Seems conflict of information whether the screws are at fault or the wood. Does balau naturally bend, as I've read in two places that it doesn't naturally but another site said whilst storing if it bends then turn it over.
Cheers
Ok thanks. Interestingly that some of our boards that are about a metre long are all fine. It's the longer 2-3m boards that are fixed about 5 times along the length that have the issues.
The supplier has asked me to lift a board and check for dampness so I'll do that tomorrow. The contractor who installed it is coming over at the weekend to have another look.
The supplier has asked me to lift a board and check for dampness so I'll do that tomorrow. The contractor who installed it is coming over at the weekend to have another look.
Ok was hoping for some better news. I'll check today a few boards it rained yesterday. I'll check back with the supplier about the membrane and then talk to the fitter at the weekend.
I'm thinking it maybe the whole centre section that needs replacing. The smaller planks that were screwed down 30cm spaced apart seem ok. The larger were more like 50-60cm spacing. That's a good few grand of materials there. Perhaps I could oil the good part and get them to lay new down in the autumn when it's not in use so much.
Gutted, we spent thousands on the house renovation and that patio was the last of our savings. Had issue with floor inside the house and now this. And the installer came from a recommendation of my neighbour who ironically went for composite boards that I suggested to him but I couldnt afford in the end. Wish I had now :-(
I'm thinking it maybe the whole centre section that needs replacing. The smaller planks that were screwed down 30cm spaced apart seem ok. The larger were more like 50-60cm spacing. That's a good few grand of materials there. Perhaps I could oil the good part and get them to lay new down in the autumn when it's not in use so much.
Gutted, we spent thousands on the house renovation and that patio was the last of our savings. Had issue with floor inside the house and now this. And the installer came from a recommendation of my neighbour who ironically went for composite boards that I suggested to him but I couldnt afford in the end. Wish I had now :-(
Update about this..
So had the decking installer over a week or so ago. I told him about the issues and that I'd research the issue that the membrane was at fault, holding moisture. Both from this forum has the suppliers stated this is the issue.
He asked for some time to check and come back. He wrote me a long email today saying that he would remove the membrane and reposition and use stainless steel screws as apposed to carbon originally. And then see how things go. He even checked with other installations that he put the membrane above the joists and they seemed fine BUT it appears he has only used softwood or oak in the past not balau. He couldn't understand that balau which is supposed to be stronger hardwood had warped.
I guess if it's a day or two work to try this and see how it goes. I'd rather not have too much work on it as it's in daily use at this time of year by our kids.
So considering going back to him to do this and then around autumn see if there is any difference.
What do people think? Thanks
So had the decking installer over a week or so ago. I told him about the issues and that I'd research the issue that the membrane was at fault, holding moisture. Both from this forum has the suppliers stated this is the issue.
He asked for some time to check and come back. He wrote me a long email today saying that he would remove the membrane and reposition and use stainless steel screws as apposed to carbon originally. And then see how things go. He even checked with other installations that he put the membrane above the joists and they seemed fine BUT it appears he has only used softwood or oak in the past not balau. He couldn't understand that balau which is supposed to be stronger hardwood had warped.
I guess if it's a day or two work to try this and see how it goes. I'd rather not have too much work on it as it's in daily use at this time of year by our kids.
So considering going back to him to do this and then around autumn see if there is any difference.
What do people think? Thanks
48k said:
Replacing screws in warped wood isn't going to unwarp it. What is he proposing to do about the wood itself? I know it's easy to say across the internet but I'd be pushing for a replacement.
Yeah true, he said that he wasnt willing to replace all boards as it would cost too much but just the ones that were warped. Trouble is if we do that now it will look a mess as theyve now gone grey. So perhaps in the autumn then can start replacing boards.Thanks
PositronicRay said:
What's the point of the membrane? I've built a couple of decks and not bothered, seems fine.
Just to prevent weeds coming through. Theres a load of debris from the old patio stones and the membrane is directly below the board. So no air flow. I`ve asked for the membrane to be put on the ground and i`ll ask the debris is removed so there is air flow.
paulrockliffe said:
Honestly, that's just tough, he should have done the job properly in the first place and it's not for you to compromise on what he'd agreed to do just so he's not left in a hole. This is just part and parcel of managing risk in a business. If he's not prepared to fix the job properly, then refund and find someone else to do the job properly.
The wood is essentially firewood now as a result of his negligence, so I would insist that it's all replaced or it's refunded and take it from there.
Yeah, I can understand about asking it to be fully replaced, but also he`s a decent bloke who is a neighbours friend which makes it more difficult, and he mentioned a total replacement could bankrupt him. So i want to give him a chance to try his suggestion. Then progress if we are still not happy the result. I`d say probably about 60m of boards out of about 200m are warped. So one suggestion was to replace the warped and move the good ones to a side and treat them and allow the new boards to grey out before treating them. It does appear its the long boards that are the main issue. The wood is essentially firewood now as a result of his negligence, so I would insist that it's all replaced or it's refunded and take it from there.
dhutch said:
Indeed. And even if you pay good money for something it doesn't mean you get it, are entitled to it, or that its a sensible thing to have.
Obviously having shelled out plenty for something nice, your going to be well peeved it you dont get at least something close. But equally if you have paid a friends-friend mates-rates without looking at their other work its a risk and you also dont want to loose friends of a bit of cupping on a deck.
There is no way the frame (treated softwood, presumably) will be rotten after 6months, so we can stomp that out. And the cupping will reduce if the back face is dried out (or the front wetted though). So sorting out the installation so you have earth, membrane, air space, frame work, decking, makes sense.
Daniel
No i didnt get mates rates , i had 3 other quotes and they were all similar. I`d been recommended him, seen his work and thought he`s a decent bloke so gave him the job. Unforgettably it looks like he followed the advice of the supplier in what screws to use, and used the membrane as he has done in previous softwood jobs, not realising that balau would start warping and snapping screws. Major lesson learnt there.Obviously having shelled out plenty for something nice, your going to be well peeved it you dont get at least something close. But equally if you have paid a friends-friend mates-rates without looking at their other work its a risk and you also dont want to loose friends of a bit of cupping on a deck.
There is no way the frame (treated softwood, presumably) will be rotten after 6months, so we can stomp that out. And the cupping will reduce if the back face is dried out (or the front wetted though). So sorting out the installation so you have earth, membrane, air space, frame work, decking, makes sense.
Daniel
highandhappy said:
No expert , but I had the same issue with Balau cupping on a deck I built.
No membrane issue and plenty of airflow , perhaps 30cm drop to the underlying ground. My boards were smooth both sides and as that cupped it snapped lots of screws (special decking screws)
I had built myself so no one to get back, just ended up adding in loads of new screws where needed, which did look awful. Clearly where they snap you cant put a new screw down the hole.
No real idea what caused the cupping, but 100% wasn't related to standing water. The wood was very active , gaps opened and then closed with seasons. Really was a pain in the arse , looked great originally
So possibly the removal of the membrane wont solve your issues
Interesting, Can I ask what spacing you used for the screws, and if you can remember what type? Ours was done with timbadeckNo membrane issue and plenty of airflow , perhaps 30cm drop to the underlying ground. My boards were smooth both sides and as that cupped it snapped lots of screws (special decking screws)
I had built myself so no one to get back, just ended up adding in loads of new screws where needed, which did look awful. Clearly where they snap you cant put a new screw down the hole.
No real idea what caused the cupping, but 100% wasn't related to standing water. The wood was very active , gaps opened and then closed with seasons. Really was a pain in the arse , looked great originally
So possibly the removal of the membrane wont solve your issues
highandhappy said:
I cant recall exact screws , but the ones you linked look familiar (the ones I had, used a square head, special bit)
spacing was based in the sub frame , from memory 10 screws (5 rows of a pair) in the longer boards. The cupping looked very similar to yours (as in the degrees of movement)
Extra screws held in place , but didn't resolve cupping. Re movement, boards would go from mm gaps one season so opening up to 25mm.
Was never happy considering how much the wood cost
ok thanks, i measure ours are about 70mm spacing on the long boards and one website suggests 30mm spacing. The shorter boards are probably about 50cm spacing and they arent too bad, only a few have warped compared to the longer boards.spacing was based in the sub frame , from memory 10 screws (5 rows of a pair) in the longer boards. The cupping looked very similar to yours (as in the degrees of movement)
Extra screws held in place , but didn't resolve cupping. Re movement, boards would go from mm gaps one season so opening up to 25mm.
Was never happy considering how much the wood cost
I`m not too keen on these types of screws, now i`ve done research i see you can hidden jig system where it screws at and angle into the sides, and also smaller headed screws. I think our installer argued against those as he said you`d never find them again once the wood expands around them if you need to get them out and lift the decking later,
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