Patio Costs - Am I being ripped off?

[XJ75]

As part of a large extension project, we had our builder create a new patio area from what previously was part of the garden.

This includes a rectangular patio and side path, nothing fancy, just square 800x800 porcelain slabs, no edging or anything. Total area is 55 square metres.

We supplied the slabs, so all I had to pay the builder for was labour and materials (hardcore/sand/cement/grout etc).

Total cost has come in at £9.3k inc VAT, not including the slabs.

I'm based in Surrey. Stupidly we didn't get a quote beforehand, it was all done as part of the building works.

Not sure where to go from here, although I suspect we will have to swallow it and learn from the experience.

Thanks.

[XJ75]

Another point to add is that after the initial ground works for the patio I had an invoice of £3.4k inc VAT, which I paid. I asked for an estimate of how much was remaining and he said £2k. Then invoiced me for a further £5.9k. When I questioned it, he said it was only a rough estimate.

[XJ75]

Trophy Husband said:

Bejaysus what!!!!



Seriously though, how long did it take them? How big was the team? Was it a complex lay with lots of cuts?

It took two guys about a week and a half. Hardly any cuts as it was just a rectangular patio, going out from the house they just laid complete slabs, so it was only the side that needed any cuts.

[XJ75]

Thanks for the replies, when I made this post I think I deep down I already knew the answer, but it's been good to have it confirmed.

[XJ75]

I'm going to get a couple of quotes and then go from there.

[XJ75]

The builder has offered to supply an even more detailed breakdown, but I'm not sure I would trust his numbers. Plus for the initial groundwork, we weren't living on site so have no idea how long they spent on it.

He has also offered to find similar patios he has done and send over the costs for comparison, but again, these could just be entirely fictional.

I still intend to get a couple of quotes locally and go from there.

[XJ75]

p1stonhead said:

Doesn’t matter how long he spent on it unless you agreed for it to be done on day works?

If he does a breakdown chuck it up here. We will soon tell you where it’s reasonable and not.

Thanks very much. No I didn't agree for it to be done on day works, but he keeps referring to day rates, so that is clearly how he has priced it up.

[XJ75]

Bit of an update, builder has said he can't breakdown the materials because the invoices were all mixed in with other works. This makes me wonder how he knows how much to charge us. But the breakdown of labour and materials is £6,000 labour and £3,300 materials. That includes one skip.

Don't forget this still doesn't include slabs, so presumably the materials can only include hardcore, sand, cement and grout.

[XJ75]

I'd imagine he would have got a fair amount of hardcore when knocking down walls as part of the main extension works too, I'm no expert though.

[XJ75]

During the works there were pretty much always two people on site, looking at his numbers I think he has sent two tradesmen rather than a tradesman and a labourer. Is this normal practise?

[XJ75]

Got a more detailed breakdown of work and materials involved:

Patio:
Scrub off grass & dispose
Excavate area to required depth to allow for slab/mortar & hardcore base
Dig footing around perimeter & fill with concrete
Supply & lay bricks (to match the house) to act as a retaining wall
Supply & paint on water proof paint above dpc
Supply Aco drains along back wall of house & install
Connect Aco drains to soakaway with 4inch underground pipe
Supply & lay hardcore base to patio area & compress (150mm thick)
Lay slabs (supplied by client) on sand & cement base
Supply & install recessed inspection chamber covers
Supply grout & install

Side path:
Bring slabs down from bottom of garden
Picked up materials to do the job
Overlay slabs on existing slabs using solid sand & cement
Supply & install inspection chamber covers
Decorative stone for french drain
Supply & install grout
Clear & dispose of all waste

Materials:
Inspection chamber covers
8 bulk bags of sharp sand
40 bags of cement
6 tubs of grout
12m aco channel
9m underground pipe
2 straight connectors
Decorative stone
Hire of wet cutter
Roughly 200 bricks
1 bulk bag of soft sand
5 bags of cement
1 x skip

[XJ75]

We had a full width rear extension so the patio was being laid where there was previously garden.

The side path was included in the 55sqm and was using the same slabs that I supplied.

I'll get some photos.

[XJ75]

I've questioned him about the retaining wall, we don't have a retaining wall so I'm not sure where that has come from.

[XJ75]

Few bad pics here, it's about as simple as it gets, no edging, no curves, at either side the slabs just stop, no retaining walls etc.

He has confirmed that the retaining wall was for the hardcore base so is actually underneath the patio.

[XJ75]

The bricks you can see to the right of the patio are just put there loosely as an idea for a retaining wall, we didn't actually go ahead with it and now won't bother based on what we've paid so far.

[XJ75]

Not sure - is it possible that they got hardcore from the extension works when knocking down walls etc?

[XJ75]

Does anyone know how tool hire works in the trade? I remember the tile cutter machine was here for weeks after they finished with it. Just noticed it's £76 a day, would they likely be charged that?

[XJ75]

It was one like the one pictured, I know for a fact because I had to help the guy from the hire place load it onto the truck because there was nobody on site.

The £76 a day was just a number I got from looking it up, no idea if that's what he paid. There's also a fair chance it was collected later and they likely weren't charged the full amount.

[XJ75]

LocoBlade said:

Is £76/day what your builder has listed on the invoice or is it just that you looked up the hire price after remembering it hung around for a while but don't know exactly what he's charged you for it's hire?

It’s just the figure I found when I was trying to reconcile his list of materials against the £3.3k he’s charged me for materials. Sadly he’s unable to provide a breakdown of actual costs.