Anyone dealt with asbestos?
Discussion
Having just moved into our new place, one of the many jobs ahead is looking into and potentially dealing with asbestos.
We have Artex ceilings (the place is 60 years old or so) and so fairly sure there will be asbestos up there. I'm told it's pretty common to plasterboard/plaster over these types of ceilings, rather than the huge job of ripping it all out.
But, I'm a bit more worried about the fact there are tiles beneath the carpet throughout the ground floor, as I'm told it could be likely these also have asbestos in them.
I'm speaking with a professional to come and do an asbestos inspection throughout the house.
We are planning on putting UFH and Laminate flooring down, but in order to do this the tiles would need to be removed. If it turns out they do have asbestos in them, any idea how huge a job it is to remove them? I'm guessing it's not just a case of me buying the right safety gear and removing them myself......
My fear right now is that these tiles are going to put an end to the UFH dream......
We have Artex ceilings (the place is 60 years old or so) and so fairly sure there will be asbestos up there. I'm told it's pretty common to plasterboard/plaster over these types of ceilings, rather than the huge job of ripping it all out.
But, I'm a bit more worried about the fact there are tiles beneath the carpet throughout the ground floor, as I'm told it could be likely these also have asbestos in them.
I'm speaking with a professional to come and do an asbestos inspection throughout the house.
We are planning on putting UFH and Laminate flooring down, but in order to do this the tiles would need to be removed. If it turns out they do have asbestos in them, any idea how huge a job it is to remove them? I'm guessing it's not just a case of me buying the right safety gear and removing them myself......
My fear right now is that these tiles are going to put an end to the UFH dream......
PrinceRupert said:
Artex ceilings, we skimmed and encapsulated.
Marley tiles, we are carpeting over upstairs but simply had to pull up and then grind out the adhesive downstairs for the LVT. Builders didn't seem to care, may or may not be asbestos but even if they are they didn't think they were high risk as the amount of asbestos is miniscule. Tiles mostly came up without breaking and the asbestos is in the tile, not the adhesive.
Ok thanks mate good to know, I guess first stop is to see what the inspection comes back with, then make a call from there. Marley tiles, we are carpeting over upstairs but simply had to pull up and then grind out the adhesive downstairs for the LVT. Builders didn't seem to care, may or may not be asbestos but even if they are they didn't think they were high risk as the amount of asbestos is miniscule. Tiles mostly came up without breaking and the asbestos is in the tile, not the adhesive.
From what you've said then maybe I could just do it myself with some very good breathing masks or whatever is correct, then make sure I'm hoovering thoroughly. Although I'm sure plenty of people will jump in and say that's suicide what am I thinking!
bangerhoarder said:
From my experience, leave the adhesive in place. The asbestos (usually Chrysotile) is bonded into the material and is stable, as long as it isn't disturbed. Carpeting or flooring over it (EDIT: the adhesive, not the tiles) should be fine, so long as it's not loose. You shouldn't try to chip it up, grind it or drill it. A sample test will be needed to know for sure.
It should be considered when skimming over ceilings - if cutting holes for downlights etc, you are again making it friable even though you enclosed it. Getting electricians and plumbers in, they may be wary of this (rightly so).
It's most likely I'll be using these guys for my UFH: https://www.jk-gb.com/jk-in-ground-ufh.phpIt should be considered when skimming over ceilings - if cutting holes for downlights etc, you are again making it friable even though you enclosed it. Getting electricians and plumbers in, they may be wary of this (rightly so).
They'll want to drill/grind the grooves into the concrete, so I'm guessing leaving the adhesive you mentioned in place is not an option?
And yes, true on the holes for the downlights- I would have thought it can still be done, they just need to be aware and so can wear appropriate safety gear?
Ynox said:
Disclaimer first - I know a reasonable amount about it (and did work for an asbestos consultancy a few years ago, but I wrote their analysis software) but I'm not a pro.
I'm pretty sure Marley tiles aren't notifiable and are pretty low risk (the thermoplastic tiles and bitumen adhesive can contain Chrysotile - 'white' asbestos). If you are going to remove them yourself you'd want an FFP3 mask and to take relevant precautions (e.g. think about hiring a H vac for the clean up). Personally, and I've got some on the ground floor of my house - I left them in situ.
Artex ceilings are usually a pretty low percentage of Chrysotile also depending on the age. Most plasterers seem to just skim them.
As a home owner, the stuff I'd personally be wary of is AIB. This stuff is nasty - can contain blue / brown asbestos. Usually safe to leave in place depending though.
Ultimately if in doubt, get a survey done.
Great thank you, appreciate the input. I'm pretty sure Marley tiles aren't notifiable and are pretty low risk (the thermoplastic tiles and bitumen adhesive can contain Chrysotile - 'white' asbestos). If you are going to remove them yourself you'd want an FFP3 mask and to take relevant precautions (e.g. think about hiring a H vac for the clean up). Personally, and I've got some on the ground floor of my house - I left them in situ.
Artex ceilings are usually a pretty low percentage of Chrysotile also depending on the age. Most plasterers seem to just skim them.
As a home owner, the stuff I'd personally be wary of is AIB. This stuff is nasty - can contain blue / brown asbestos. Usually safe to leave in place depending though.
Ultimately if in doubt, get a survey done.
Looks like I've got a survey booked in for next Tuesday so fingers crossed for good (ish) news.
geeks said:
Ours is of a "similar" age (50 ish years old) the tiles were marly and had asbestos, the ceilings did not so you might luck in there. The flooring was removed by a certified chap, not entirely sure of the process as it was part of our insurance works post flood.
Do you know roughly how large the area of floor was that got removed, and how long did it take? I think I'm roughly 50 Sq m.
mhocking said:
We're in the same position & I'm just waiting for the test results back on the vinyl tiles and bitumen/mastic adhesive. Our house is early/mid 80's where it was still used albeit more uncommon.
If confirmed, lifting the tiles should be easy with minimal dust. They can then be double bagged and taken to the local recycling centre for a charge. I'll probably just use some latex self levelling compound over the dried adhesive rather than dig it out as that would create significant mess. A number of products seem to be available that are suitable for laying over adhesive.
We had out artex ceilings just primed with PVA then skimmed. Didn't both testing them as skimming seemed to be the best solution.
Having had a look at (albeit a tiny corner beneath the carpet) I can't imagine that removing my tiles will be 'easy with minimal dust', but then I might be wrong as I'm not really basing that assumption on anything other than a hunch. If confirmed, lifting the tiles should be easy with minimal dust. They can then be double bagged and taken to the local recycling centre for a charge. I'll probably just use some latex self levelling compound over the dried adhesive rather than dig it out as that would create significant mess. A number of products seem to be available that are suitable for laying over adhesive.
We had out artex ceilings just primed with PVA then skimmed. Didn't both testing them as skimming seemed to be the best solution.
geeks said:
We have a bungalow so a larger footprint (I think it is aprox 90sqm) chap was in and out in under 2 days. Day 1 was encapsulate and remove and then day 2 was clean up and make safe
Ok that's good to know....I'd imagine that 2 day's work can't be THAT pricey, even if he is working with asbestos, right? Or am I being naive? Got my survey results back.
It looks like every area they tested has come back positive for Chrysotile, including the sample of tiles they took from under the ground floor carpets.
The ceilings through the house I'm not overly surprised by so I can't be too disappointed, but the fact the tiles/adhesive have come back positive I must say is disappointing, as I was planning on taking up the whole ground floor, putting UFH in etc......but this removal of the tiles and so on will need to be done professionally......I'm worried this will put my whole ground floor plan out of reach.
Waiting for a call from the asbestos company to discuss removal options.
It looks like every area they tested has come back positive for Chrysotile, including the sample of tiles they took from under the ground floor carpets.
The ceilings through the house I'm not overly surprised by so I can't be too disappointed, but the fact the tiles/adhesive have come back positive I must say is disappointing, as I was planning on taking up the whole ground floor, putting UFH in etc......but this removal of the tiles and so on will need to be done professionally......I'm worried this will put my whole ground floor plan out of reach.
Waiting for a call from the asbestos company to discuss removal options.
Having spoken at length to the chap who works at the surveying company, there are of course options as to how I move forward.
For the ceiling work I want to do (mainly just going to be drilling holes for spotlights) I think I'll get my electrician to mark out exactly where everything needs drilling, then getting the asbestos company to do the actual drilling. There's nothing that says I have to remove it, but any work that does touch it and could potentially release it into the air should really be done by a qualified person. (It can of course be done by a cowboy, or yourself even, with facemask etc, but that's obviously not recommended!)
For the tiles, I think I'm going to leave them where they are and lay Fermacell over the top which the UFH company can cut into and lay the pipes. I think this is going to be much cheaper than paying someone qualified to remove all of the tiles (which will still leave a small amount of the bitumen the tiles are stuck to) then laying screed over the top.
Only problem with this route with the floor is that obviously the asbestos is still there; it's pretty much completely safe left alone, especially with another layer of 'stuff' over the top, but I won't have that ideal peace of mind knowing it has all been removed.
For the ceiling work I want to do (mainly just going to be drilling holes for spotlights) I think I'll get my electrician to mark out exactly where everything needs drilling, then getting the asbestos company to do the actual drilling. There's nothing that says I have to remove it, but any work that does touch it and could potentially release it into the air should really be done by a qualified person. (It can of course be done by a cowboy, or yourself even, with facemask etc, but that's obviously not recommended!)
For the tiles, I think I'm going to leave them where they are and lay Fermacell over the top which the UFH company can cut into and lay the pipes. I think this is going to be much cheaper than paying someone qualified to remove all of the tiles (which will still leave a small amount of the bitumen the tiles are stuck to) then laying screed over the top.
Only problem with this route with the floor is that obviously the asbestos is still there; it's pretty much completely safe left alone, especially with another layer of 'stuff' over the top, but I won't have that ideal peace of mind knowing it has all been removed.
LocoBlade said:
UTH said:
For the tiles, I think I'm going to leave them where they are and lay Fermacell over the top which the UFH company can cut into and lay the pipes. I think this is going to be much cheaper than paying someone qualified to remove all of the tiles (which will still leave a small amount of the bitumen the tiles are stuck to) then laying screed over the top.
If you're leaving the tiles in situ you're going to be raising the floor regardless so you may as well go for a proper overfloor UFH solution like Polypipe or Wunda rather than put down plain boards then get JK to cut into them which I assume is what you're thinking there?I was under the impression that the JK solution was still going to be much cheaper even with the boards than the proper overfloor option......but then maybe I'm wrong? A quick rough estimate would suggest I'm adding maybe £2k to the cost by using the JK board option, putting me at maybe £5k-£6k for JK with the boards.....
I think I'm still keen to avoid getting screed etc put down, hence the board option still sounding good, but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree?
I'll spend some time looking at Wunda tomorrow.
ETA: Just seen, this is probably what you're advising me to look at? Looking interesting..... https://www.wundagroup.com/underfloor-heating/wund...
Edited by UTH on Tuesday 20th October 20:37
I'm probably looking at 55-70 sq m of downstairs tiles that would need taking up.
Without doing the accurate maths (still waiting on a quote for professional tile removal until I can do that) I just think the added cost of getting rid of these tiles properly will then push the UFH part of our renovation plan beyond what we can justify, given how much other stuff we have to do. As it stands I think we could justify it with one of the systems where you leave the tiles as they are, but we will do some more accurate maths once the quote comes in from the asbestos guys and see how the numbers look.
Without doing the accurate maths (still waiting on a quote for professional tile removal until I can do that) I just think the added cost of getting rid of these tiles properly will then push the UFH part of our renovation plan beyond what we can justify, given how much other stuff we have to do. As it stands I think we could justify it with one of the systems where you leave the tiles as they are, but we will do some more accurate maths once the quote comes in from the asbestos guys and see how the numbers look.
LocoBlade said:
Yep thats the kind of thing, they're insulated and designed to spread the heat a bit better than regular board would do and I'd have thought by the time you've bought board the overfloor solutions won't be too different in price and may be cheaper. Regarding screeding over top, I think they all need the pipes screeding in if laying LVT or carpet on top, including the JK solution. if tiling or solid floor then I dont think you need to screed with most of them.
Create an account on wundatrade.co.uk , I've just had a look and their 80m2 premium multi zone kit is under £2k for everything you'd need, boards, pipe, manifold, pump etc.
https://www.wundatrade.co.uk/shop/home/water-under...
Thanks mate, not sure I was aware of needing screed for the JK option so that could well swing my vote, as you’re right Wunda option is starting to look more cost effective. Create an account on wundatrade.co.uk , I've just had a look and their 80m2 premium multi zone kit is under £2k for everything you'd need, boards, pipe, manifold, pump etc.
https://www.wundatrade.co.uk/shop/home/water-under...
Edited by LocoBlade on Tuesday 20th October 22:08
When you say solid floor, does that include laminate and I think that’s what we’re leaning towards, even more so if screed isn’t required.
LocoBlade said:
UTH said:
Thanks mate, not sure I was aware of needing screed for the JK option so that could well swing my vote, as you’re right Wunda option is starting to look more cost effective.
When you say solid floor, does that include laminate and I think that’s what we’re leaning towards, even more so if screed isn’t required.
I think screed or overboarding is generally only required for "soft" flooring that would fall into the grooves when you walked on it, things like carpet or vinyl tiles so you should be OK with interlocking laminate, but best ask them. When you log onto the Wundatrade website and select one of those kits there's a compatibility table (not sure why it doesn't show when not logged in) that says which types of flooring that does/doesn't need an "intermediate layer" which I assume means something between the foil sheets and your flooring, the top end Premium Plus version doesn't need an intermediate layer for anything apparently.When you say solid floor, does that include laminate and I think that’s what we’re leaning towards, even more so if screed isn’t required.
Edited by LocoBlade on Wednesday 21st October 07:33
Condi said:
I removed an asbestos chimney myself using all the correct PPE and simply took it to the tip double bagged as per their instructions.
I also took up quite a large area of black floor tiles, without much PPE and with a hammer and chisel. Think they went in a skip. Didn't even consider that they would be contain asbestos and so never had them tested or took any suitable precautions. Hopefully there has been no lasting effects!
To be honest it does sound like there is very little risk with all of the stuff in my house (and likely most houses)I also took up quite a large area of black floor tiles, without much PPE and with a hammer and chisel. Think they went in a skip. Didn't even consider that they would be contain asbestos and so never had them tested or took any suitable precautions. Hopefully there has been no lasting effects!
So I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of people have ripped things up/out themselves in this situation with no negative effects at all, and probably chucked it in a skip without even knowing they shouldn't.
I suppose it's just the official line that it needs to be dealt with safely and properly etc.
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