Tenant broken boiler, refusing me access to check it

[TheBinarySheep]

We have a single property that we're renting out. Tenancy started in May 2020, we've tried numerous times to get access to the property to check it over and do a gas safety check but they keep denying us access and coming up with stupid excuses. They're also 5 month in arrears.

I got an email tonight to say the boiler has broke and can we send an engineer. I've replied asking if I can pop down to check the boiler over in the next hour to check that it's not something simple before I arrange for an engineer to go out and perform a repair. She's replied saying I can't go down as the house is untidy and she'd rather arrange for me to go another time, and she only wants an engineer to attend.

I don't want to pay for an engineer visit on a weekend if all it needs is the boiler topping up, but will if I have to.

The tenancy says that she has to give access to perform repairs, but she's refusing me access and will only accept an engineer visiting the property. I know she's trying to hide the fact that they've got the house in a right state.

My question is, can she refuse me access? If I arrange an engineer I'll be attending with the engineer anyway, but I am expecting her to still deny me access to the inside.

Any help appreciated.

[TheBinarySheep]

otherman said:

Have you ever met this tennant? If not, you could turn up as the engineer.

Sadly yes, I've met them.

[TheBinarySheep]

Turn7 said:

Hi Tenant

The Engineer cant get there till Tuesday.

Let me know if you get cold enough to tidy up and I'll pop over.....


I seriously could not be a landlord.

The problem with that is I gather we have to fix something like this within 24 hours.

[TheBinarySheep]

elanfan said:

I wouldn’t be cooperating with a tenant in arrears, no way. Tell her she’s got no choice either you or no one. Take eviction paperwork with you. If you can’t get it going say you’ll call an engineer once the arrears are paid.

You can't hold arrears against the tenant in cases like this sadly.

We also can't evict them until they're 6 month in arrears due to new Covid restrictions preventing landlords from getting rid of tenants. We're waiting for them to miss one more month so we can give them a months notice to get out.

[TheBinarySheep]

Turn7 said:

Hi Tenant

The Engineer cant get there till Tuesday.

Let me know if you get cold enough to tidy up and I'll pop over.....


I seriously could not be a landlord.

To be honest, I don't want to be a landlord either. This was our first home, we kept it when we moved out and it was valued at £65k. Anyway, 10 years later it's worth about £20k, we're in negative equity and we just keep getting crap tenant after crap tenant. It costs us thousands each year to the point where we're thinking of cutting our losses, taking the money out of our home to pay it off and then just selling it.

But as some on here say, landlords make loads of money and arse the cause of the housing problem.

[TheBinarySheep]

Carbon Sasquatch said:

I'd say you hold all the cards given that it's cold.....

If the contract states that you are allowed access for maintenance & she has refused. Unless the contract says anything about engineers, I'd hold firm that you need to check first. Just be clear & polite - as soon as you've confirmed the problem, an engineer will be arranged ASAP.

Tenancy says that they have to give access to landlord or the landlords contractors to perform repairs.

[TheBinarySheep]

98elise said:

As a Landlord I would insist I get a chance to look at it first. The tenant can't pick and choose who does the repair.

Also ask the same question on Landlordzone which is a great resource for legal issues etc.

If she's 5 months behind already then start the eviction process as soon as you can.

Already posted on Landlordzone as well, but no responses so far. This place is usually far quicker.

[TheBinarySheep]

Matt_E_Mulsion said:

Get round there and kick her and her worldly goods out onto the streets.

I wish I could, but the government have got so much protection in place for tenants that landlords have their hands tied behind their backs.

[TheBinarySheep]

crispian22 said:

She's probably growing weed

You joke, but the property is in an area where this sort of thing is rife.

[TheBinarySheep]

Simpo Two said:

Yes but you have to star the process or you'll just lose even more money. IIRC once they're two months in arrears you can start action. Section 8 or 22, not sure which. If they're on HB you can apply to the Council to get it paid straight to you (at least you could when I had a go at being a landlord 10 years ago). Good luck.

It was 2 month, but since Covid they have to be 6 month in arrears before you can start the process.

"We have made regulations extending the provisions of the Coronavirus Act 2020, meaning that from 29 August 2020 landlords will not be able to start possession proceedings in most circumstances unless they have given their tenants six months’ notice. Shorter notice periods will apply to certain cases where the landlord wants to evict the tenant because of rent arrears of 6 months or more, anti-social behaviour, domestic abuse or false statement. "

We used to get the rent paid directly to us, but we think they've stopped it so that they get the rent.

[TheBinarySheep]

A poster on another forum has suggested that even if we wanted to start a section 21 to get them out, we can't because we don't have an up to date gas inspection.... FFS

[TheBinarySheep]

I've politely replied saying

"Do you want to do some tidying up this evening and I'll pop down to check the boiler in the morning?"

No doubt she's going to kick off and say she needs it fixing this evening, but on point of principle I'm not going to arrange anyone until tomorrow. I have 24 hours, so she can wait 24 hours.

[TheBinarySheep]

trixical said:

I believe if the rent arrears is more than a certain period you don't have to give the 6 months notice, yep looks like only 4 weeks https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/evic...

Have you had a read of https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/62... over on MSE as some recommendations may be relevant but the key point is the rent arrears and boiler being broken are separate issues so you can't refuse to fix the boiler because they are in arrears as much as you wish you could (& others will try to encourage you down this path as morally it seems reasonable)
It might be the above or another thread i've read recently but if you had housing benefits being paid directly to you and it now isn't they have likely changed from a joint to single claim which resets it so you need to apply to have it paid direct again, get on it.

I feel for your plight, a friend is trying to remove a joint tenant who remained after notice had been given by the other, council aren't interested in housing her & 2 kids till a possession order is granted and the court adjourned the case review that could have granted possession for apparently no reason. She needs to move back in & in the mean time is having to pay out to rent somewhere else, its destroying her mental health. She only rented the place out as a last resort as she had relocated (which subsequently didn't work out) and had a sale fall through twice.

Sadly a section 8 required 6 month notice if less than 6 month in arrears. It's all changed since Covid https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-1... See the section under 'Minimum notice period lengths under Section 8 of the Housing Act 1988'

[TheBinarySheep]

320d is all you need said:

Is there a law for 24hr boiler?

When I was renting we had a boiler fault and it was several days before anyone came.

Certainly significantly longer than 24 Hrs.

We had no hot water and it was middle of Summer so managing without a shower for a couple of days was not very hygienic.

Most websites say that we have to fix it within reasonable time. Most sites say 24 hours.

[TheBinarySheep]

carreauchompeur said:

Absolute fkers. My my has just bought 2 BTL flats and this stuff worries the hell out of me.

Absolute cheek, 5 months adrift but FIX MY BOILER NOW!

Direct payment of HB to the tenants is bonkers.

What really gets to us is that over the years we've considered ourselves to be really good landlords. We decorate the whole house before each tenant moves in, we buy Xmas presents, we fix most problems the same day they're reported and we generally leave the tenants alone unless there's an issue. In reality, we're too soft.

This tenant owes us 5 months rent + whatever repairs we need to do when they leave. The tenant before them leave us having to pay someone to come out and remove all of the belonging they left along with 3+ month of arrears, and another before that we had to take to court to get them out because he was in arrears. This property costs us thousands a year. It's actually cheaper for us to let someone live in the house rent free than it is to leave it empty because we have to pay full council tax when it's empty. The whole system is an absolute joke. I understand that some landlords do underhand things, and some tenants are really hard done to, but when it's the other way around the landlord loses thousands. We're just a normally family with two kids, we're not rich but tenants think they can take the wee wee.

[TheBinarySheep]

BrundanBianchi said:

I think the Covid situation makes eviction impossible at present, unless the law has been changed back again.

Pretty much this. If they have less than 6 month of arrears you need to give them 6 month notice. If they have 6 month of arrears then you only need to give 4 weeks. Once tenants understand this then they contact universal credits and have the rent paid directly to them knowing that they have 6-7 month before they can be kicked out.

The tenant has replied.

"no not really I'm still not week and need the boiler doing tonight as it's freezing and I have my little cousin here."

Edited by TheBinarySheep on Saturday 9th January 18:24

[TheBinarySheep]

Oh FFS, check out this reply

"and to be honest the only person the boiler when its clearly not working we are no idiots its not pressure etc and needs a professional looking at it not my landlord who just wants a sneaky look at the house before the inspection if this is a problem ican ring the council and ask if they can come tonight tofix it also with me not been welllthere is things like my underwear just lying about and dont feel its apporiate you snooping roumd my property"

[TheBinarySheep]

Mgd_uk said:

For her to get the council involved will take days/weeks and numerous letters and communications to you before they will even start requesting that you get the boiler repaired.

They've been doing their own research and have emailed me again telling me that I'm not engineer so I can't do anything with the boiler anyway.

I've replied saying that I'll speak with an engineer tomorrow and see when both and engineer and myself can attend to fix the boiler. In the meantime, if she needs any electric heaters then I can drop some off.

I'm trying not to get too involved.

[TheBinarySheep]

CharlesElliott said:

I feel for you OP.

Why the bad run of tenants? We have a BTL to whilst there has been the odd issue, the tenants go for 1-2 years at a time (literally) with no issues and just pay the rent. Like you, if something does come up we do everything we can to fix it quickly.

I'm worried we will get a bad tenant at some point but so far (10+ years) we have been OK.

The bad run of tenants is because the area is an absolute poo hole and has gone right downhill in the last few years. The houses are old colliery/pit houses that no-one with a job wants to live in.

[TheBinarySheep]

Here's another

"amd for what reason do you need to come with the engineer i find this inappropriate when we are all currently on lockdown i feel like your pressurimg me to let you come virw my property if iwamt myboiler fixed and it feels like bully tactics to allow you access im order to get my boiler fixed and its agaimst the law to bully your way into my property just because the boilers broken there is no reasom you need to attend withthe engineer on a evening i dont mimd sorting the rent and book a proper inspection date so yes get the engineer out ASAP likethis evening and only the engineer will get access to the property and if u do not comply wit this it will result in the police been called if my lad hasnt already removed you feom the fromt thisisnt my fjrst property with a broken boiler and never experienced anythinh like this and would feel extremely uncomfortable u just stood aboit while the boilers been fixed there is no reason what so ever "