Ask an estate agent anything
Discussion
I've revealed my identity! I'm an estate agent (I like to think a good one) and proud of it!
There's lots going on in the property market at the market at the moment and I think a lot of misinformation about what good agents do, so happy to answer any questions from an agents' point of view.
Bit of background: I've been working in the SW London market (think Battersea, Clapham, Putney) for 5 years and now run my own office specialising in mid-market £500k-£1.5m properties. I also work as an independent buying agent for wealthy overseas investors who are looking to buy in London. I have a very untraditional background having actually started my career in one of the FAANG tech companies, before moving into business development at a startup and then moving over to agency world.
So go ahead... ask me anything!
There's lots going on in the property market at the market at the moment and I think a lot of misinformation about what good agents do, so happy to answer any questions from an agents' point of view.
Bit of background: I've been working in the SW London market (think Battersea, Clapham, Putney) for 5 years and now run my own office specialising in mid-market £500k-£1.5m properties. I also work as an independent buying agent for wealthy overseas investors who are looking to buy in London. I have a very untraditional background having actually started my career in one of the FAANG tech companies, before moving into business development at a startup and then moving over to agency world.
So go ahead... ask me anything!
xyz123 said:
Don't take it personally but you did say ask anything.
1. Why are there so many lying and idiot estate agents who has zero interest in doing a decent job? Is it because of complete lack of regulation, very low slow skill requirement and a high turnover of staff?
2.Can anyone just become an estate agent after finding a firm and filling in a form or is there anything else involved..
Not taken personally... I agree with you.1. Why are there so many lying and idiot estate agents who has zero interest in doing a decent job? Is it because of complete lack of regulation, very low slow skill requirement and a high turnover of staff?
2.Can anyone just become an estate agent after finding a firm and filling in a form or is there anything else involved..
1. No licensing is a big issue - literally anyone can "do it". The barriers to entry are incredibly low and have been for years, which means those at the top of the business are generally there by virtue of tenure rather than any appreciable skill set or passion. This then filters down to the young ones who learn very bad habits and end up being "door openers". The pay is also comically bad apart from those at the very top, which means if you're a "neg" (negotiator - the one who will take you round the house as a buyer) who in London will usually earn a £20k base + 6-8% of the fee income, unless you're properly trained in a decent firm (unlikely - see above), you will say anything to get the deal done.
I will keep this short as there as so many questions, but I could talk all day about how many charlatans, d
heads, scumbags and apathetic idiots who can't be arsed to a decent job are in this industry, which reflects poorly on all of us.2. Technically yes, in that you don't need a qualification or licence, but at my company we are very, very selective and hire primarily from non-traditional backgrounds where people have not had the opportunity to pick up bad habits.
bristolracer said:
Does it bother you that many of your overseas investors will have made their money by morally dubious means or by exploiting their countrymen in appalling working conditions? Does it bother you that they will leave many of these properties empty far from the reach of the law and reduce the availability of housing stock?
I know the professions of my clients and none have made their money by "morally dubious means" as far as I'm aware. You've made a sweeping generalisation and this moralistic argument could extend to UK-based professionals in arguably immoral professions such as banking, mining, energy, and so on - but let's not go down that rabbit hole.The empty property point is one I do wrestle with in fairness, but ultimately I believe the real issue regarding housing stock is poor government policy and land banking by developers not enabling an increased supply in affordable housing...
crankedup said:
How much of traditional business risk do you see in the new (ish) internet sales businesses such as Purple Bricks?
Great question. I don't see it as much of a threat right now. In spite of their marketing spend, their market share is declining and people are coming to the realisation that having a professional agent managing their sale usually results in a better outcome. I view my role as a professional whose job is to get my client the best possible price for their property. With this in mind, I make sure they present their property in its best possible light, expose it to the right buyer set, get that buyerset emotionally connected to the property based upon their needs and wants, and - if possible - create the conditions for a competitive situation.*
Following the agreement of the sale, there is as much (if not more) work aligning all the parties in a chain and ensuring that a property progresses from under offer to exchange and completion as quickly and smoothly as possible.
With PurpleBricks and the like, they're not great at the sales part, and really, really bad at the progression part. You can sell your property through them, but getting the best price, and getting it actually exchanged, is where they tend to fall down. In fairness, if you have a very unique and desirable property that will sell in a heartbeat, or the market is super hot and everything sells, then PurpleBricks can be a good solution.
- I know buyers don't like to hear that last part about competition - and I am also a human and a buyer of property so hate those scenarios when on the other side as well - but when I'm working for a seller, if they're paying 1.5-2%, it is my responsibility to make them as much additional money over what they would pay to a PurpleBricks or a 1% agent.
condor said:
What type of waiting lists do you have for prospective buyers? I'm looking to buy a bungalow locally in the next year, presumably probate ones come up most often? For a buyer is it best to leave details with all the local agents or pick a personal estate agent to do all the looking for you?
Most agents will have a hot buyer list. Unfortunately, most don't manage it too well. With this in mind, my advice is to do this:- List out all the requirements that you have for your property
- Get your finances in order in terms of how you will be funding the property
- Call up all the local agents, have that list of requirements ready to list off to them and make it clear you have finance in place ready to go
- Drop them a one line email every couple of weeks and a call once a month so you're on their radar (they will forget you otherwise)
That means as soon as something suitable comes up, you'll be through the door first. Good luck!
Milkbuttons said:
How much does it actually cost you to list a property on platforms like Rightmove and Zoopla etc?
Very good question! It's a monthly fee, generally charged at a branch level, and depends on the size of your portfolio. The answer is a LOT. Generally for less than 5 properties, you'll pay around 1k per month including VAT, and rises exponentially from there. RM is an amazing business - agents hate them because of the cost, but you have to use them. Closest to a monopoly that I've seen operating in real life. Zoopla is a distant second - also okay for generating leads - it's a touch cheaper.cayman-black said:
Are there many cash buyers in the market right now?
In my market yes. Certainly not the majority though. Sold one yesterday £526k cash. Another last month £950k cash. And lots with very chunky deposits.brickwall said:
How “hot” is the market right now, and how much of it is being driven by stamp duty? (And what do you expect to happen post June?)
London houses, very hot. London flats with good outside space, very hot. London flats with small outside space (balcony), warm. London flats with no outside space around £500-700k, tepid. London 2/1.5 flats sub £500k with no outside space, tepid. One bed flats with no outside space, cold. It is somewhat driven by stamp duty, but most buyers I speak to bar the very bottom of the market see the saving as a "nice to have" but not an essential. People don't tend to make huge life altering decisions for the sake of £15k, no matter what the media will have you believe! The main drivers are actually lots of people with a lot more cash from staying at home and not eating out or holidaying in the last year, which has brought their moves forward, the rollout of the vaccine which has given more people confidence in an economic recovery, and related to the vaccine point people now being given clear guidance from their employers about what they will be doing in terms of wfh/work from office going forward.
Post-June, we probably will see a bit of a slow down, but it's really crystal ball stuff. I thought the market was going to die last October after furlough was supposed to end, which then got extended, and the opposite happened. My outlook is generally bullish!
Rob_125 said:
Why do a lot of estate agents feel the need to compulsively lie?
Do you find estate agents will judge a potential buyer/their affordability on their outward appearance (i.e. the car they drive)?
How do you think the market will play out in the coming months?
Re: lying, I think poor training, a desperation for money, and a complete information imbalance meaning you usually won't get caught probably encourages this type of behaviour. I don't lie to buyers and actually highlight all issues upfront so everyone is on the same page from the beginning, but sadly I probably am an exceptionDo you find estate agents will judge a potential buyer/their affordability on their outward appearance (i.e. the car they drive)?
How do you think the market will play out in the coming months?
Re: judging, I don't think so. Most people don't give a s
t about cars (especially in London) so it's not an indicator. It's more about what you say and I also ask for proof of funds from EVERYONE before putting an offer forward, so it's kind of irrelevant how you dress or present yourself so long as your money is green!Re: market, see above. Potential slowdown after June, but I don't see a cliffedge. Too many positive catalysts or that to happen in my opinion. Caveat: could be completely wrong.
Monkeylegend said:
You are a brave man or woman OP 
Help...Ice_blue_tvr said:
When people say they are "cash buyers".. How often are they actually buying outright in cash? I heard this term so many times when we were putting offers in for houses assuming it meant people had the cash to buy the house outright, to later find out that wasn't the case..
Does it really mean fk all, or is it just a massively misused term?
Cash buyers to me is cash - readies in the bank account.Does it really mean f
k all, or is it just a massively misused term? Some use it as catch all for "not a mortgage". For example, someone might buy using a bridging loan. This is subject to far fewer affordability checks and is processed much more quickly than a traditional mortgage, so you can usually exchange and complete in the same amount of time as a cash buyer because the legals take so long.
67Dino said:
My world is financial tech where most things these days can be done by businesses digitally, or by consumers online or with an app. Yet you buy a house and there’s a lot of face to face, phone and paper involved still, like doing insurance or banking in the 1980s.
Why is the real estate industry so manual and is it changing? Do you think I ever be able to buy a house completely online or with an app?
I think it's a highly complex, fragmented and localised industry which makes it extremely difficult to produce a tech solution which will provide suitable protection to both buyer and seller.Why is the real estate industry so manual and is it changing? Do you think I ever be able to buy a house completely online or with an app?
When reviewing a property, you have the fundamentals (what is it made of? What's the condition?), the subjectives (how do I get to work? What are the restaurants like round here? How about the schools?) and the legals (what's the tenure? What actually comes with the property? Etc).
It's also a huge investment for most people, so having advice or insight into the above is always a useful thing, and that tends to involve hiring a professional in that area (be it surveyor, agent, solicitor, mortgage advisor).
Much like a complex business transaction where you have teams of professionals from all different disciplines working on a particular part of the deal, the same is true of a property transaction but on a smaller scale. Example: I just sold a flat which someone bought with an amazing roof terrace. During the legal process, their solicitor found out the roof terrace was actually illegal even though it had been in use since 1991 and the transaction happened in 2017. The agent then needs to mediate the process between buyer and seller, which ends in the seller paying the freeholder to get the terrace legally signed off. These types of situations are not all that uncommon.
One click purchases probably can happen for new builds - off plan has been happening for years and I'm sure there probably are some online purchases that happen for those types of property.
I think tech will continue to make inroads and provide better and better information to inform throughout the process, but I think it's a big hurdle to overcome for people to get their head around buying a house online.
The cynic in me also says that there are a lot of lawyers, surveyors and agents out there who have a vested interest in that not happening...
s1962a said:
What are your thoughts on an official sellers information pack, similar to HIP reports from long ago? I know searches etc are pretty much out of date by the time the report is produced, but information like building control/planning approvals, basic home condition report, and information on the lease etc would be quite useful for prospective buyers. I know work might be duplicated (searches, surveys etc) but some basic information would save time in my opinion.
I saw an advert for an auction property, and they seem to to provide some basic information upfront in the ad, which I thought was good.
I think that the premise is a good idea and me and my team try to provide as much information upfront as possible to enable a buyer to make an informed decision. The HIP was before my time, but I understand the main reason it became a contentious issue was the upfront cost that sellers had to bear. If there's an affordable way to do it without information going out of date quickly, I'm generally for it. My main reluctance would be if it provided information upfront without context which would unnnecessarily encourage a buyer to not engage in a conversation - e.g. it may say the property has a short lease, but it may not say that my seller may be willing to pay for the lease extension.I saw an advert for an auction property, and they seem to to provide some basic information upfront in the ad, which I thought was good.
brickwall said:
Thanks for the responses. This is particularly of interest for me as a fellow SW-London dweller. I’m not looking to move right now, but expect I will be in the next c.18months. I’d likely be selling at the bottom end of your range and buying towards the upper end.
What in your eyes endears a seller to you (as a customer), vs what will really put you off?
Similarly buyers -what really pisses you off?
Good customers are the ones who "get it". They understand that in order to sell their home for the best price, life is probably going to be a bit disrupted for a couple of months. That means keeping the house clean and tidy all the time (even if you have kids). It means leaving the house 15 mins before a viewing starts so we can arrive early and get set up. It means you might need to touch up some paint and make some changes. It means might need to do a deep clean before we start marketing. It's great working with customers who are open to all of the above, and also open to having a transparent and honest conversation. I am very much of the "tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear" school of advice.What in your eyes endears a seller to you (as a customer), vs what will really put you off?
Similarly buyers -what really pisses you off?
If you don't want to, or can't, keep the house clean and tidy (for example), I really don't mind and I will work just as hard to get a great result. But then together we need to enter the process with the expectation we're unlikely to achieve the absolute best possible price. In spite of what many think, putting the house with a few pics on Rightmove is not a marketing strategy and won't get you the best result.
Offputting customers are the ones who are not engaged with the process - they don't care about their property, they don't care about the process, and they make no effort to present the property in its best light. I understand life happens, but filthy, untidy properties are naturally harder to sell. The customer is then frustrated because I am conducting viewings and unable to sell it, and I'm frustrated because they have employed me for my professional advice, which they then ignore. They're also usually the ones who are obsessed with the fee. I completely understand that people want the best deal (I do too), and if fee is the most important thing to them then there are plenty of agents who compete on that level, but inevitably whenever I have cut my fees they become the hardest to deal with - so I just don't cut my fee anymore.
It's also generally a very bad strategy to try for a higher price. Almost exclusively, if you ignore a good agent's advice and list at 10% above the realistic value, you are going to get fewer enquiries, fewer viewings, and a worse result. The way you can tell if a price an agent is giving you is realistic is to ask for evidence to support that valuation.
On the buyer side, there are four things which are quite offputting:
1) Being difficult during our initial conversation. I know that talking to endless estate agents is not the most fun task, but we ask you those questions for a reason - and it's not just to spam you with a load of irrelevant properties via email. Firstly, I want to understand what you're looking for to see if the property you have enquired about is really a good fit or not. Secondly, I'm trying to get a feel for you as a buyer - I have been employed by my client to sell their property, and if I'm presenting an offer to them it is my responsibility to advise them on your suitability. Thirdly, I may have something else available or coming up that, based on our conversation, could be a really good fit. Fourth, it's just nice to be nice and build a relationship so we can have productive and open interactions during the process.
2) Not providing financial information when asked for it. I also understand this is private information and some people do not want to share it. However, if I were selling your house, you would very likely want me to know that the financial status of the stranger I'm showing around your home would enable them to buy the property. If buyers feel really uncomfortable doing this, I advise that they ask their solicitor to contact me in writing to confirm their affordability.
3) Turning up late or not showing up at all. This is basic courtesy and is not only rude, but highly disruptive to schedules for not only ourselves, but our clients and other buyer. If I or my team are working Saturdays, evenings, asking our clients to vacate their properties at such times to accommodate a viewing, and have other buyers lined up for viewings at the same or another property, it is very unfair to not show up within a reasonable time (say, 5 mins) or at all. Delays happen and things come up - but PLEASE just let us know in advance so we can plan!
4) Not replying. If we have taken the time to provide you information on a property and show you round, even if you don't like the property please take 30 seconds on the phone or via email to provide some helpful feedback. I need to understand what buyers do and do not like so I can feed back to my client!
Any of the above, even if it's not intentional, will not endear you to an agent if you're looking to purchase. Remember: it's nice to be nice!
PS - Feel free PM me when you might consider selling - happy to help with general advice - even if I don't cover your exact area I'm sure I can give some pointers!
Countdown said:
Why, on god's green earth, do Estate Agents use those stupid fisheye cameras to try and make rooms look longer than they are?
It only works on the unsuspecting. After a few wasted visits buyers realise that it's just an annoying trick designed to try and con them. Why not show realistic pictures in the first place?
Agreed... It's a balance. Photos taken with a narrow lens make a room look smaller than it is. Photos taken with a fish eye make it look bigger and distorted. That's why we try to do 3D tours and videos to complement photos now!It only works on the unsuspecting. After a few wasted visits buyers realise that it's just an annoying trick designed to try and con them. Why not show realistic pictures in the first place?
p4cks said:
Radical thinking I know but please humour me. Do you think there'll ever be someone (just once) in your industry who isn't just a GCSE failing, chancing little weasel ?
That would be... me! 6 A*s and 6 As at GCSE, International Baccalaureate, first class honours degree from a top 10 uni, 4.0 GPA on my exchange to a top US university, distinction in my MSc at a top 5 uni where I won the only departmental scholarship which had 400 applicants... Since you asked. ?
Grandad Gaz said:
p4cks said:
Radical thinking I know but please humour me. Do you think there'll ever be someone (just once) in your industry who isn't just a GCSE failing, chancing little weasel ?
That’s a little unfair!?A few more posts like that and he will probably bugger off.....and rightly so.
OP, some interesting points you have made regarding Rightmove and online agents like Purplebricks. Thanks
oblio said:
OP - I have no questions (at the mo) but thanks for starting this thread, its very informative 
Thanks... Feel free to chip in if any come up!bristoltype603 said:
A question about buying agents. I heard that in some parts of London estate agents wont take you seriously unless you're represented by a buying agent and that it one of the few ways to get on an agents 'hot buyer' list?
Also what's your view of buyers from out of London with houses to sell?
I've never heard that before re: buying agents. Where did you hear that? Buying agents are still rarity, especially in core/mid-market. They're also a headache to deal with and almost always want to be paid on both sides of the deal (i.e. they want a slice of the selling agents' fee) so it's often a disadvantage to have on in reality.Also what's your view of buyers from out of London with houses to sell?
Re: out of London with house to sell, depends if under offer or not. If you come to offer on one of my properties, I will ask to speak with your agent first to get an understanding of the situation with your buyers and any downward chain, and then take it from there...
MitchT said:
1.
Why don't estate agents have a questionnaire of commonly asked questions that they can ask the vendor to complete when they received a new instruction? Then use this build an information sheet for the property to take to viewings. I've lost count of the number of times I've asked an agent how old is the wiring? how old is the boiler? what is the council tax band? etc. and they didn't know. Surely this is basic stuff that they should have established when they were first approached by the vendor so the information is there when they're asked and, if a question that isn't in the questionnaire is asked it can be added so that this information is always collected in future.
2.
Why are estate agents so resolutely unwilling to do viewings on evenings and weekends, you know, when people with gainful employment and, therefore, the means to buy a property are actually in a position to attend a viewing? I usually get the "we can do between 9 and 5" response. No, you can do any time during the 24 hours of any day. The phrase you're looking for is that you won't do viewings except between 9 and 5 because you think the lives of people making the biggest purchase of their life and bagging you tons of commission in the process should revolve around you.
I've never met a bunch of people that are are more bone idle, self centered and deluded that money should force its way into their pockets without them having done much at all to justify it. Estate agents' attitude seems to be one of "people need a roof over their head whether they like it or not so we can treat them like crap as they're going to have to deal with us anyway". If ever an industry needed disrupting its this one!
Oh, and one other thing...
FOR CRYING OUT ****ING LOUD - IF THE PROPERTY COMES WITH A GARAGE, INCLUDE ITS DIMENSIONS ON THE LISTING !!!!!
1) My team do. We call it out property information form, the answers of which we then put into our "Quick Facts" sheets. See excerpt here: Why don't estate agents have a questionnaire of commonly asked questions that they can ask the vendor to complete when they received a new instruction? Then use this build an information sheet for the property to take to viewings. I've lost count of the number of times I've asked an agent how old is the wiring? how old is the boiler? what is the council tax band? etc. and they didn't know. Surely this is basic stuff that they should have established when they were first approached by the vendor so the information is there when they're asked and, if a question that isn't in the questionnaire is asked it can be added so that this information is always collected in future.
2.
Why are estate agents so resolutely unwilling to do viewings on evenings and weekends, you know, when people with gainful employment and, therefore, the means to buy a property are actually in a position to attend a viewing? I usually get the "we can do between 9 and 5" response. No, you can do any time during the 24 hours of any day. The phrase you're looking for is that you won't do viewings except between 9 and 5 because you think the lives of people making the biggest purchase of their life and bagging you tons of commission in the process should revolve around you.
I've never met a bunch of people that are are more bone idle, self centered and deluded that money should force its way into their pockets without them having done much at all to justify it. Estate agents' attitude seems to be one of "people need a roof over their head whether they like it or not so we can treat them like crap as they're going to have to deal with us anyway". If ever an industry needed disrupting its this one!
Oh, and one other thing...
FOR CRYING OUT ****ING LOUD - IF THE PROPERTY COMES WITH A GARAGE, INCLUDE ITS DIMENSIONS ON THE LISTING !!!!!
2) My team do. Evenings, weekends, bank holidays... However we will only do awkward times if you work with us. I'm not going to ask my clients to vacate the property at 6.30pm on a Wednesday when they usually serve up the kids' dinner if someone is unwilling to provide any information pertaining to their financial situation, proceedability, or anything that's relevant. I take your bone idle point and as I've said a lot of bad habits persist in this industry, so I do understand your frustration.
Super_G said:
Already some great replies here but grateful for your input too:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Thanks, will take a look.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Ascayman said:
If you're a genuine cash (i.e money in the bank) buyer and looking at buying a property with no chain what sort of % discount should you be able to negotiate? Say on a London suburbs property up at £750k?
Completely epends on seller situation and local market. Slow market with no competition on buyer side 5-10%. Competitive situation you're unlikely to get a discount, but will just get to buy it over someone else (sold one this AM over asking price to cash buyer). London burbs v competitive for good stock near decent schools right now, esp. at the price level you're talking about, so wouldn't except much off.mike9009 said:
My question, but maybe not specifically aimed at estate agents.
Why does the industry seem unable to resolve stuff more quickly at the eleventh hour? It seems to be a frequent occurrence that a situation occurs that suddenly grinds everything to a halt. Only the buyers/ sellers constantly chasing seems to resolve the situation.
I am fairly certain the same issues arise again and again and no one in the industry seems to have a clue. My experience is chancel insurance and a suspected flying freehold leading to delays and stress in my last purchase. Puts me off moving as the industry doesn't seem populated with 'can do' or 'professionals'.
I might be unfair, but at the moment a friend's purchase has been delayed by three months so far because of a boundary issue which seems to have stumped the industry.....
Property is highly complex and there aren't many boilerplate transactions (bar high volume new builds). With every profession, you have good, you have average, and you have bad. Lots of delays are driven by bad and average solicitors who generally are reactive rather than proactive... Hence nothing gets done until it absolutely needs to be. There are also excellent solicitors - but they are more £ and most people don't want to pay as they don't see the value (until they've been through a headache situation like this...).Why does the industry seem unable to resolve stuff more quickly at the eleventh hour? It seems to be a frequent occurrence that a situation occurs that suddenly grinds everything to a halt. Only the buyers/ sellers constantly chasing seems to resolve the situation.
I am fairly certain the same issues arise again and again and no one in the industry seems to have a clue. My experience is chancel insurance and a suspected flying freehold leading to delays and stress in my last purchase. Puts me off moving as the industry doesn't seem populated with 'can do' or 'professionals'.
I might be unfair, but at the moment a friend's purchase has been delayed by three months so far because of a boundary issue which seems to have stumped the industry.....
zedstar said:
Here's a question, round my way houses seem to sell without formal marketing or go on Rightmove as 'sold'.I've had the relevant estate agents round who've assured me they'll let me know along with everyone else when a quiet sale is going on, but they just don't. Ever. How do I peak their interest?
I asked a developer friend of mine and when the relevant agents were mentioned he blatantly told me to let him deal with it with a brown paper envelope. Goes against my grain to do stuff like that - so what's the other way?
Sorry to hear you're missing out. Answered a similar Q on the previous page - you need to be proactive and just keep bugging the agent so you're first to know when something comes on. Brown paper envelope really should be a thing in this day and age...I asked a developer friend of mine and when the relevant agents were mentioned he blatantly told me to let him deal with it with a brown paper envelope. Goes against my grain to do stuff like that - so what's the other way?
505diff said:
Why is every house on the market either ‘stunning’, bespoke’ or contemporary’, or if a new build, ‘A stunning contemporary development of only 3196 bespoke homes, from 995k, show home (with micro furniture) open soon, 99% sold, (on the day they start clearing site ready to lay foundations)?
To your feet go all the way to the toes in those pointy shoes?
Do you realise telephones also make outgoing calls?
Why do people always put in an offer that the vendor is really interested in the 3 hours from when I inquire about a property and I arrive to view it?
1. Lack of imagination I guess!To your feet go all the way to the toes in those pointy shoes?
Do you realise telephones also make outgoing calls?
Why do people always put in an offer that the vendor is really interested in the 3 hours from when I inquire about a property and I arrive to view it?
Edited by 505diff on Friday 2nd April 18:27
2. I wear trainers.
3. Yes, although I use VOIP not a "telephone".
4. Either you're enquiring too late, or the agent is making it up... But I'm assuming you were already suggesting the latter.
Simbu said:
22s said:
but when I'm working for a seller, if they're paying 1.5-2%, it is my responsibility to make them as much additional money over what they would pay to a PurpleBricks or a 1% agent.
I am surprised to hear you're able to command such high fees. We're in Bristol and the housing market in the more affluent areas is very competitive. "Best and final offer" situations are typical. Even the most highly rated agents here are charging <1% on sales, otherwise they are priced out of the game. We sold 2.5 years ago and achieved 8% over asking (after several similar valuations), and paid <1%.What do you offer that sets you apart? I imagine London is
also a saturated agent market.
I am very, very process driven and have a clear path to market for each property I take on. Whilst there are many agents in London, the market is also massively oversupplied in SW and therefore people see value in a high quality agent who is going to take a bespoke approach to their property and get it sold vs the other flats on the market. I could go into great detail on how I approach sales and marketing, but it's essentially the 4 stages I laid out on page 1 (presentation, exposure, emotional connection, competitive tension), customised for each property. Takes a lot more work than putting on Rightmove and waiting for phone to ring, but gets results.
I've heard Bristol has been hot and if you can just bang it on the portals and sell for 10% over at high volume then maybe 1% can work.
The even crazier thing is that I am mid-range... Some of the more established players charge 2% PLUS VAT and Foxtons are well known in most offices for charging 2.4% plus VAT.
Roaringopenfire said:
Good thread. Given this is on Pistonheads why do agents almost never include photos of garages?
Sorry, missed this first time around. Not sure - in London there are very few garages it's not something I come up against often. I imagine most garages are full of rubbish and don't photograph well.Candellara said:
How many Estate Agents are on back handers - handing the very best property deals / bargains / opportunities to builders / developers / friends / staff before they ever come to the open market?
Alot from my experience and i probably wrongly put Estate Agents in the same camp as anyone involved with pensions / finance / banks / insurance / motor industry etc
Don't trust any of them.
I really don't know. I've never done one. Have heard rumours, but no-one has ever admitted to me they've done one. I'm sure they do happen. Sharks in every industry, just more than average in property I think!Alot from my experience and i probably wrongly put Estate Agents in the same camp as anyone involved with pensions / finance / banks / insurance / motor industry etc
Don't trust any of them.
Akz said:
Roaringopenfire said:
Good thread. Given this is on Pistonheads why do agents almost never include photos of garages?
This. There's a £32k/month rent house up in Virginia Water with apparently an underground garage. I want to see it! https://www.knightfrank.co.uk/properties/residenti...
Hopefully undecorated. Rest of the house is... interesting.
Simbu said:
22s said:
I've heard Bristol has been hot and if you can just bang it on the portals and sell for 10% over at high volume then maybe 1% can work.
This is pretty much the case in fairness. There is a massive shortage of housing against demand, which is why competing bids over asking is typical. It's largely driven by school catchments and especially a demand for the nice Victorian family homes in the area. Anything that's not a lemon will be off the market within 2 weeks.We chose an agent that put more attention into presentation and who are somewhat selective in their choice of properties and sellers. They also weren't the cheapest, but we felt like we got good value.
We sold chain free and lived with family for a time to put ourselves in a stronger buying position. It paid dividends; being chain free secured our current home (along with a 4% premium on asking price!) The local market is that competitive.
Another question if I may, does Rightmove give you insights into things like the alerts prospective buyers in an area have setup? I can imagine it being advantageous to market a property within a certain price range to maximize exposure and generate interest, then expect a final sale value above list price. Perhaps that only works in a market with undersupply.
Thank you for taking the time to answer questions!
We have asked that exact question to Rightmove and they have said no. Not sure why they don't want more forward thinking customers to be more successful, but there you go.
The most useful thing about Rightmove is their "best price guide" which allows you to search all old listings (both sold and unsold) to better gauge market value.
MitchT said:
Cheers for the answers OP!
Looks like you're the exception to the rule. Maybe you could come to Yorkshire at some point and give my local ones a good kick up the backside!
Thank you and no problem... If I ever decide to move to greener pastures then I may shake up the local area where you are!Looks like you're the exception to the rule. Maybe you could come to Yorkshire at some point and give my local ones a good kick up the backside!
ninja-lewis said:
Will the UK ever abandon number of bedrooms and just use floor area as the primary metric?
Doubt it... It's an interesting point now I think about it. I think most people don't really understand what a sq ft means, and not all sq ft are created equal, and also some places have funny configurations... So I think it needs to be a mixture of both really!tapandunwrap said:
Thanks for doing this - this is a great thread.
Can you give any tips to be a really good buyer? What can I do to be given first refusal, or a heads up on decent properties in advance?
You're welcome; hope it's insightful and thanks for the question.Can you give any tips to be a really good buyer? What can I do to be given first refusal, or a heads up on decent properties in advance?
I detailed this a bit on page one but you basically want to be on the agents "hot buyers" list. This means answering all their questions, providing them proof of ability to buy, then hounding them as a reminder that you're in market. Also, just pop in (covid permitting), say hello, be nice, be memorable probably helps. I personally am proactive and run a pretty good hot buyers list, but most don't so you need to really be in their ear or they'll forget you.
Side note: in the interests of their client, no agent should offer anyone the right of first refusal (unless they've discussed it with their client and got the green light), but I assume you mean getting in the door first!
Miocene said:
Full credit for popping your head above the parapet!
What's with the insistence that you have to have sold your property before viewing others? Im sure it used to be you put your house on the market and start looking at the same time.
I can't help feel it's just to put pressure on the seller to find somewhere, even if its not the right place for them, where the agent feeds them the fear that they don't want to lose their buyer.
We've had a bit of a mix here and have been honest with the agents - we're in a smallish market town and there's only 3/4 roads we'd want to move to, have given proof of funds but admittedly do have specific needs due to our daughters disability but will jump at the right place. We've probably been too honest!
If I'm understandiing correctly, you're on the market at the moment, but not under offer so agents are refusing to show you around?What's with the insistence that you have to have sold your property before viewing others? Im sure it used to be you put your house on the market and start looking at the same time.
I can't help feel it's just to put pressure on the seller to find somewhere, even if its not the right place for them, where the agent feeds them the fear that they don't want to lose their buyer.
We've had a bit of a mix here and have been honest with the agents - we're in a smallish market town and there's only 3/4 roads we'd want to move to, have given proof of funds but admittedly do have specific needs due to our daughters disability but will jump at the right place. We've probably been too honest!
If that's right, I sympathise with your situation, but I think I am on the side of the agents here. If I'm selling a property, I want to make sure those buyers I show are ready to make a purchase so it doesn't waste my client's time or my team's time. The best way to do this is to only show to buyers in a "proceedable" position.
It's also VERY busy at the moment, so that probably factors into a lot of agents' decision making on whether it's worth taking round a buyer who is not ready to buy right now. In a slow market with not much on, an agent may take you round just to get out of the office and show the client you're doing something...
Ultimately, in these types of situations I take a view on how serious you are based on our interaction, and I'll then speak to my client to explain the situation and why I think a viewing might be appropriate, and leave the decision to them.
You're kind of between a rock and a hard place. If there are so few roads you are interested in, and within those roads a specific type of property, you need to be ready to snap it up as soon as it comes to market. I would wager that the chances of that coming up at the same time as you being under offer with a buyer who has an open-ended timeline to wait for you to find the right place are vanishing small. However, with a disabled child, selling up and moving into rented accommodation to be chain-free whilst you wait for the right thing to come up is likely not an option... Bit tricky.
I would advise dropping a bunch of handwritten notes to the houses you're interested in on those 3-4 streets explaining your situation and why you'd love to live in their house specifically. Might strike gold and be able to agree a private purchase whilst you wait for yours to sell.
Milkbuttons said:
Back again, hope you don't mind.
Will lowering the price of your property considerably below its perceived market value and hosting an open house event really pull perspective buyers in to a bidding war and drive the price higher than the original asking price?
I'm of the firm belief that you can always start with a higher price and come down but going back up in price is much harder, especially if the buyer now thinks their paying well over the odds.
This method has been proposed to me a few times and I've declined every time, fortunately I've managed to achieve the price I wanted but that meant sticking to my guns when the estate agent wanted to lower the price.
Hello again and please do ask away.Will lowering the price of your property considerably below its perceived market value and hosting an open house event really pull perspective buyers in to a bidding war and drive the price higher than the original asking price?
I'm of the firm belief that you can always start with a higher price and come down but going back up in price is much harder, especially if the buyer now thinks their paying well over the odds.
This method has been proposed to me a few times and I've declined every time, fortunately I've managed to achieve the price I wanted but that meant sticking to my guns when the estate agent wanted to lower the price.
Edited by Milkbuttons on Friday 2nd April 22:30
It's a high risk strategy that I avoid unless in a hot market with a desirable property. You are completely right that if you price too low and don't generate the interest you need then you are royally f
ked as there's going to be no competition and therefore close to impossible to achieve above asking price. I've had a recent one where I've had to unpick the mess of an incompetent competitor who recommended the price low strategy to a seller before they listed wth us and it has ruined the chances of that property selling at the price the owner wants.The flip side is that I've done it in the last couple of weeks with two great properties (one on a desirable road with great decorative finish, one with an unusually large south-facing garden) and both went for above asking price. However, I would never price signficantly (10% or more) lower than market value unless I was specifically instructed to by a client.
We sadly can't do open houses at the moment due to the pandemic, but still do block viewings if we can.
Miocene said:
Appreciate the comments.
We put our house on the market last year when something came up, unfortunately we didn't get that and nothing has come up since. In that time our house did sell quickly, so we have reasonable confidence it'd sell again as we had a lot of interest, but at the same time don't want to ps off another potential buyer.
We've discussed dropping notes through a few doors and should just take the plunge!
It's worth dropping the notes if you're serious about moving... Surprising how often you hear of it working! Just a bit time consuming writing them all out!We put our house on the market last year when something came up, unfortunately we didn't get that and nothing has come up since. In that time our house did sell quickly, so we have reasonable confidence it'd sell again as we had a lot of interest, but at the same time don't want to ps off another potential buyer.
We've discussed dropping notes through a few doors and should just take the plunge!
easytiger123 said:
22s said:
bristoltype603 said:
A question about buying agents. I heard that in some parts of London estate agents wont take you seriously unless you're represented by a buying agent and that it one of the few ways to get on an agents 'hot buyer' list?
Also what's your view of buyers from out of London with houses to sell?
I've never heard that before re: buying agents. Where did you hear that? Buying agents are still rarity, especially in core/mid-market. They're also a headache to deal with and almost always want to be paid on both sides of the deal (i.e. they want a slice of the selling agents' fee) so it's often a disadvantage to have on in reality.Also what's your view of buyers from out of London with houses to sell?
We have retained one (not linked to either of the firms above) and it turned out to be good advice as we've seen a number of houses that are not on the open market.
Interesting that this isn't really the case in London.
My thesis is that there's a lower density of housing and less homogenous stock, so that smaller selection plus massive competition means that taking any edge you can get makes sense.
Also, lots of people buying in the country are from the cities and have the money but not the time, energy or local knowledge to perform the search.
Finally, people buying substantial country houses tend to have a long time horizon so want to get it right and therefore much more selective about the property, so professional help is a good thing. London tends to be 1/2 bed flat, bigger flat, terraced house, country house.
C Lee Farquar said:
Certainly true of the £2m plus stuff near me, North Oxon.
Of the most recent five sales, two weren't marketed, two were bought via a retained agent and one was bought by someone senior in Knight Frank.
And two of the five are being knocked down for a replacement dwelling.
Interesting re: KF senior employee there - was the agent marketing the property KF as well?Of the most recent five sales, two weren't marketed, two were bought via a retained agent and one was bought by someone senior in Knight Frank.
And two of the five are being knocked down for a replacement dwelling.
Thanks for all the questions and supportive comments. I know we all love to hate estate agents, but thought it would be insightful to provide a view from "the other side". Need to run off for Easter lunch now, but promise will get back to all other questions...
re: KF senior employee there - was the agent marketing the property KF as well?Message sentReceived, thanks!
I don't know of a single experienced agent who has moved to Foxtons (though I'm working with an admittedly small dataset). I think as a bootcamp it works well for those with no experience and I know some brilliant ex-Foxtons agents, but it's about taking the best bits (work ethic, presenting yourself professional, being proactive) and stripping out the bad bits (overvaluing, being too pushy, etc).
LonRes is actually very useful for BAs. Lots of off-market opportunities on there.
The other part I like about the industry, and the company I work with, is that the industry is SO behind in terms of technology and my company is massively forward thinking. We have a whole team of engineers creating an unrivalled customer platform which I think is truly going to be a gamechanger.
Regarding price sensitivity, this is a massive generalisation and I am very happy to be corrected / told off, but sellers (and buyers) in my area are possibly more commercially minded and sophisticated in their approach to selling or buying a home vs non-urban areas with fewer professional services jobs. That means they recognise there is a value is professional representation of their sale, and also recognise they're unlikely to get the best outcome from their sale by going for a cheap agent.
I've worked in a hedge fund, an oil company, a huge tech company, a small startup... All interesting in their own way, but I find estate agency to be probably one of the most exciting and biggest untapped opportunities for change in the UK corporate world.
C Lee Farquar said:
22s said:
re: KF senior employee there - was the agent marketing the property KF as well?
valiant said:
What do you think of Foxtons modus operandi of flattering the seller with a, in my experience, vastly overvalued price guide to help justify their quite ludicrous commission and then the obvious reductions as the sale doesn’t materialise compared to the competition locally?
What’s the industry perception of the big boys like Foxtons? Are they avoided by experienced estate agents looking for a new challenge or are they used as a ‘boot camp’ for newbies to the industry who’ll then aim to move on?
Don't agree with Foxton MO. They now have reputation for overvaluing within the general public and savvy sellers now have access to a variety of public datasets they can use to inform their own sale price. I work with a variety of ex-Foxtons employees and they have quoted that in training they were told "add £100k to whatever you think the property is worth - that's your valuation". I never intentionally overvalue anything as even if you do a great job from that point forward, you're still going to end up with a very disappointed customer.What’s the industry perception of the big boys like Foxtons? Are they avoided by experienced estate agents looking for a new challenge or are they used as a ‘boot camp’ for newbies to the industry who’ll then aim to move on?
I don't know of a single experienced agent who has moved to Foxtons (though I'm working with an admittedly small dataset). I think as a bootcamp it works well for those with no experience and I know some brilliant ex-Foxtons agents, but it's about taking the best bits (work ethic, presenting yourself professional, being proactive) and stripping out the bad bits (overvaluing, being too pushy, etc).
Dromedary66 said:
Windsor or Balthus?
Ha ha... Open-necked shirt for me.bristoltype603 said:
Hello and thanks for answering this. The impression buying agents try to give is that they use their influence over the selling agent to make sure the agent calls them first before putting it on the open market (also they'll know you're in a proceedable position since this is verified before sign-up). It doesn't surpise me that they'd like a cut of the selling agents commission but I don't understand then why any agent would ever bother to call them and they'd go bust?
One of the other things buying agents seem to tout is access to the online agent only property site LonRes. Is that actually useful?
I would almost always avoid selling to a buying agent on a fee split agreement if I can. However, in the prime end of the market, an agent might charge 2%+ on the expectation that they may need to pay a 0.5% fee to a buying agent. If not, happy days!One of the other things buying agents seem to tout is access to the online agent only property site LonRes. Is that actually useful?
LonRes is actually very useful for BAs. Lots of off-market opportunities on there.
DanL said:
Here’s one - you’re clearly qualified to do other things. What motivated you to pick what must be one of the most derided professions in the UK? Is there really room to differentiate from the other players when the market is (presumably!) price sensitive?
Great question... I think there is a huge opportunity to differentiate and drive up the service level in this industry. That's one of the main reasons I chose to do it - the challenge is intellectually stimulating and I can also see the industry is going to change rapidly over the next decade. I think we are going to very quickly see a shift from "agencies" e.g. Foxtons, KFH, Dexters to "agents" i.e. the individual representing the sale, much more like the model in the US and ANZ. This means agents will move onto a self-employed model where they will "eat what they kill" and the best ones will generate compensation that's more aligned with other professional services such as law, banking and consultancy. This has the additional benefit of stripping out the deadwood we all hate from the industry and will hopefully be coupled with some licensing. The other part I like about the industry, and the company I work with, is that the industry is SO behind in terms of technology and my company is massively forward thinking. We have a whole team of engineers creating an unrivalled customer platform which I think is truly going to be a gamechanger.
Regarding price sensitivity, this is a massive generalisation and I am very happy to be corrected / told off, but sellers (and buyers) in my area are possibly more commercially minded and sophisticated in their approach to selling or buying a home vs non-urban areas with fewer professional services jobs. That means they recognise there is a value is professional representation of their sale, and also recognise they're unlikely to get the best outcome from their sale by going for a cheap agent.
I've worked in a hedge fund, an oil company, a huge tech company, a small startup... All interesting in their own way, but I find estate agency to be probably one of the most exciting and biggest untapped opportunities for change in the UK corporate world.
crankedup said:
Interesting stuff in this thread.
Back in the day I recall Easter period being seen as the ‘kick start’ period of selling houses for the upcoming house selling season. That the school holiday summer period the market went cold and other examples such as the Christmas period. Do these ‘time sensitive periods’ still apply or is the market now a 12 month business? Thanks.
This year is a little different due to govt incentives artificially driving the mkt. However, generally your transaction activity periods are:Back in the day I recall Easter period being seen as the ‘kick start’ period of selling houses for the upcoming house selling season. That the school holiday summer period the market went cold and other examples such as the Christmas period. Do these ‘time sensitive periods’ still apply or is the market now a 12 month business? Thanks.
January: semi busy
February/March: quiet
April/May/June: busy
July/August/first half Sept: quiet
Second half Sept/Oct: semi-busy
November: semi-quiet
December: quiet
a311 said:
Thanks for sticking your head above the parapet OP. An interesting read, the market you work in has little relevance to where I'm at. I've little experience with EA's and dont really have an opinion on the trade either way!
Its probably self explanatory, but what sort of advice would you be giving a client who's had their house on the market a little over 12 months?
We weren't contemplating moving, then got looking at a particular property. We're probably not ideal buyers on the eyes of an EA as we not hugely motivated sellers, but were considering it for this particualr house. We've walked away in the end as despite the time on the market, the seller wasn't willing to budge much on the asking having only 2 offers (inc ours) in that time.
Anecdotally it's Purple Bricks who were the seller. You'd think they'd be advising their client accordingly but I appreciate it's up to the seller what they'll sell for. I guess PB have had their fee so are no longer arsed if and when it does sell.....
Would not have a client on the mkt for that long... Not surprised it was PB. Having it on for that long is doing more damage than good. I would have set up from beginning what we would do after X weeks, Y weeks, etc etc if no interest. Its probably self explanatory, but what sort of advice would you be giving a client who's had their house on the market a little over 12 months?
We weren't contemplating moving, then got looking at a particular property. We're probably not ideal buyers on the eyes of an EA as we not hugely motivated sellers, but were considering it for this particualr house. We've walked away in the end as despite the time on the market, the seller wasn't willing to budge much on the asking having only 2 offers (inc ours) in that time.
Anecdotally it's Purple Bricks who were the seller. You'd think they'd be advising their client accordingly but I appreciate it's up to the seller what they'll sell for. I guess PB have had their fee so are no longer arsed if and when it does sell.....
They're doing more damage than good sitting on the market for that long! But they have also used PurpleBricks which suggests they don't have a full understanding of how the market works (not their fault; but that's likely the reality!).
Downward said:
Kids are in Year 10 and 7.
If we moved house now, we are looking to move around 15 miles away due to home working changes etc.
Can they continue at the current school ?
It’s a different LEA
Can't give any professional advice on this as one for the school, but generally yes in my experience.If we moved house now, we are looking to move around 15 miles away due to home working changes etc.
Can they continue at the current school ?
It’s a different LEA
DozyGit said:
Fantastic thread OP, keep it going!
Always wanted to run an estate agency, what do you think in your expert opinion are the vital points?
I don’t know if you have watched Stath Lets Flats, do you get such characters in the letting game?
Many thanks!
Thanks. To do well you need to be great at getting in the door of sellers in the area, then you need to have a clear and logical marketing approach you can show to them, and then you need to sell the properties! No great secret, but it's highly competitve and a complete grind. Be prepared for evenings, weekends, holidays to be worked...Always wanted to run an estate agency, what do you think in your expert opinion are the vital points?
I don’t know if you have watched Stath Lets Flats, do you get such characters in the letting game?
Many thanks!
I haven't seen the program you mentioned and don't work in lettings so can't help on that. However, there are a LOT of characters in estate agency (both agents, clients, and buyers) so you can be sure you'll meet a lot of interesting people!
richatnort said:
22 this is great of you to do. In North Leeds where I live any house up to probably 800k is sold within a week of viewings on the weekend after its been put up on RM. However when trying to book a slot they refuse to let you view it even though you're in a position to move because "they have too many viewings". My question is, is it not good for the client to get everyone in a position to move through the door not just some to get the best price for the client rather than what feels like putting the agents out making them come back.
My second question is around the stamp duty holiday, when do you feel the housing market is going to crash? I've seen a similar house on my estate be listed for 100k more than we paid for ours a year ago (great for us) but surely there's going to be a crash because estate agents are pricing houses too high because there's so much demand at the minute due of the stamp duty holiday and therefore agents seem to be throwing wild values out there and seeing what sticks.
First question, yes it is in the best interests of the client to get every hot buyer through the door and give them an opportunity to put forward their best offer. Is there any reason why there are other people getting viewings and you're not? If that particular agent has a "rule" about the number of viewing then - as annoying as it is - you will likely need to toe that line and therefore do whatever they want to get the viewing. I would call them up and ask how you get into a property when it first comes to market. It could just be that you need to call up INSTANTLY something comes to market to get the limited slots.My second question is around the stamp duty holiday, when do you feel the housing market is going to crash? I've seen a similar house on my estate be listed for 100k more than we paid for ours a year ago (great for us) but surely there's going to be a crash because estate agents are pricing houses too high because there's so much demand at the minute due of the stamp duty holiday and therefore agents seem to be throwing wild values out there and seeing what sticks.
Re: SDLT holiday, no I do not think it will crash. Maybe a slight softening, but too many other things driving the market (vaccine, lots of people with savings, people making big life changes due to new working patterns) to really see a monumental drop off. £15k is a decent whack of dosh, but it's not what most people will base decisions that will change the next 5-10 years of their life on (note: I work in London market where prices and incomes are higher than average, so may be different in different regions).
Andeh1 said:
Fwiw not all estates agents ware bad, our last sale via Connells local branch, they were outstanding. They achieved 15% more then what the shysters at purple bricks recommended we market it at.
They then held the sale together despite a difficult seller on my side, and my slow buyers.
Glad to hear you had a good experience. Connells are generally well-respected in the industry.They then held the sale together despite a difficult seller on my side, and my slow buyers.
andy43 said:
I’ve got a couple -
1. What is the definition of “sea glimpses”?
2. Was it really an estate agent who pioneered brown pointy shoes teamed with a blue suit? I suspect it could have actually been a car supermarket salesman...
3. What’s your opinion on the fallout from Grenfell - are you seeing clad properties failing surveys and legals then becoming unsaleable?
1. Assuming you're referring to coastal properties, probably means if on a completely clear day you go to the top floor, pop your head out the skylight, grab the binoculars and stare off into the far distance, you might see something resembling a body of water.1. What is the definition of “sea glimpses”?
2. Was it really an estate agent who pioneered brown pointy shoes teamed with a blue suit? I suspect it could have actually been a car supermarket salesman...
3. What’s your opinion on the fallout from Grenfell - are you seeing clad properties failing surveys and legals then becoming unsaleable?
2. It's an age old battle between the high st agent and car supermarket salesman, and both stories stack up. Agents tend to nail the huge tie knot and occasionally tie clip so that particular combo would have to go to them.
3. Complete and utter shambles. Necessary, but as with anything mandated by the government in a rush, incredibly poorly executed. Most lenders will not consider offering a mortgage against a property unless it has had an "EWS1" form issued (essentially a fire safety certificate). On these forms, there are ratings from A1-A3 and B1-B3. Some lenders will accept some ratings, some will not. The ratings themselves come down to a surveyors judgement on the day of the survey. Some lenders will ask for EWS1 on some buildings, but not on others (which are clear clad). It's a complete nightmare with no clear direction on what is and is not acceptable - so to answer your question, yes, we do see sales fall away due to the cladding issue. However, we prepare all of our clients so they go in with their eyes wide open, and if they do not have an EWS1 form (or remedial works booked if their EWS1 indicates that there is flammable material on the building) then we strongly recommend they don't list until the issue is resolved.
BobSaunders said:
1. Are people leaving london for the countryside?
2. Has covid changed the landscape with what people want out of a house?
3. Why don’t you have a web portal to communicate to sellers, buyers, and solicitors?
4. As an owner of an estate agent, is there a lot of money in it?
1. Yes - but the "exodus" is overblown. It's more of an accelerant for people who were already planning to leave London, rather than a fundamental driver. Interesting, we just last week exchanged on the sale of a £1.4m house. The owners were initially planning a move to Hampshire, but as the vaccine was announced and things started to open up again, they're instead just buying a slightly bigger house around the corner!2. Has covid changed the landscape with what people want out of a house?
3. Why don’t you have a web portal to communicate to sellers, buyers, and solicitors?
4. As an owner of an estate agent, is there a lot of money in it?
2. Bigger gardens, some work from home space (i.e. additional bedrooms) are the main differences. Interestingly, I think proximity to a tube station is less important now - people don't say "I don't want to be near a tube", but they don't ask for it even slightly as much as before.
3. The main problem is that most solicitors are stuck in the dark ages and you need mass adoption of any platform like that to get it to work effectively. One solution is to have a panel of solicitors on the platform that we insist buyers and sellers work with, but unsurprisingly people don't like being told which solicitor to use by their agent. As an intermediate step, we have a progression team which dedicates you a single point of contact through the process from under offer through to complete. They co-ordinate buyers, sellers, solciitors, lenders, other agents in the chain, etc to ensure we move quickly to exchange. We have an existing app for customers to monitor their sales process and will soon be adding a "progression" element so sellers and buyers can keep an eye on key milestone events in the process.
4. Yes, though it is highly competitive and you need to be good to reap the rewards. Lots of agents scrape by. As per one of my previous answers, I think we are about to enter the age of the "super agent" who are the individual standout performers who will work under an agency brand but will be self employed and get 50%-90% of the gross commission income on a deal. Then we will start to see some extremely high earning individual agents. You're going to start seeing a lot more of agent's faces on billboards, social media and more over the next 3-5 years, and you will start picking who you want to work with based on that individual rather than the agency brand above the door - or at least that's my prediction!
blingybongy said:
Is your name Mark and did you used to work in Derbyshire?
If so, after 15 years I still think you're a and I'm glad I told you so.
It's not and no, but I hope that was cathartic for you!If so, after 15 years I still think you're a
and I'm glad I told you so.netherfield said:
You're not all bad, we're in the process of selling a bungalow, at least the EA would do viewings on a Sunday between 2pm and 5pm.
Not that it took much selling being a bungalow.
Out of interest, why did it not take much selling? I have no experience with bungalows!Not that it took much selling being a bungalow.
Paul the Painter said:
Do you have any idea why no one in the EA business has offered a charging model that more aligns their interests and the sellers interests? The standard flat percentage model doesn't really reward you for doing a great job.
Imagine you get £550,000 for a place that would normally sell for £500,000 in a heartbeat, you get an extra £1000 (2% fee) but it takes you, say twice the time/effort. Your fee goes from £10k to £11k. Meanwhile shiny suited side down the road is advising clients to take the £500,000 and then moves on to sell another. In the same time you have made £11k and he has made £20k. BUT you have made an extra £49k for your client.
Alternatively you could price your fee as 1% of the total and 10% for everything over a base price of say £450,000. If it goes for £500,000 you get £10k, but if you sell for £550,000 you get £15,500.
I just feel the estate agents are generally inventivised to "get the deal done" rather than to "get the best price"
A good point. I think it's a simplicity thing. For my more commercially-minded/savvy clients, I will agree to a smaller base fee with an accelerator of 10% over price X as you suggest. Works well.Imagine you get £550,000 for a place that would normally sell for £500,000 in a heartbeat, you get an extra £1000 (2% fee) but it takes you, say twice the time/effort. Your fee goes from £10k to £11k. Meanwhile shiny suited side down the road is advising clients to take the £500,000 and then moves on to sell another. In the same time you have made £11k and he has made £20k. BUT you have made an extra £49k for your client.
Alternatively you could price your fee as 1% of the total and 10% for everything over a base price of say £450,000. If it goes for £500,000 you get £10k, but if you sell for £550,000 you get £15,500.
I just feel the estate agents are generally inventivised to "get the deal done" rather than to "get the best price"
surveyor said:
An interesting thread.
When I left school I joined my parents Estate Agency for a while - this was in the early 90's, they had 3 offices spread around the Dearne Valley, a previous heavily invested mining community that was on its knees. Given that the economy was also on it's knee's it was not a great position to be in.
Over the years I remember the end of MIRAS in '88. Very much like the stamp duty relief, at one point there were 3 houses in the business not sold subject to contract.
Equally in 1992 we were running out of for sale boards, having to reuse manky old ones as there was no money to buy more. Repossessions got the worst ones!
We had 2 fee structures from memory. 1.5% including advertising and 1% plus advertising. At one point we were giving notice on stock that was overpriced (due to the falling market). Those clients on the 1% were often a bit miffed when they got the advertising invoice as well!
The internet was unheard of. Rather than being raped by Rightmove, the local paper did the deed. Fierce pricing without the discount kept the new players out of the market. I think we were paying £1,500 a page.
Clients were difficult, sometimes not helped by us. I narrowly avoided walking into the local advertising manager on her sunbed. She shouted at my dad. She shouted again when I did not turn up to show her a house, although I waited ten minutes after the appointment time, which was actually out of my working time. Can't please them all...
I realised how little future there was when a chap whose house was already overpriced and not selling, brought in the Sun which said house prices were rising (not where we were!), and he wanted to put his house price up...
Love these anecdotes. £1,500 a page is outrageous. Very, very interesting that you were charging for advertising - that is very common in Australia, but for some reason not here where we do an "all-in" fee. I think that's one of the reasons why agents are not seen as professional - because as an industry we do an awful job of explaining HOW we're going to get the best price.When I left school I joined my parents Estate Agency for a while - this was in the early 90's, they had 3 offices spread around the Dearne Valley, a previous heavily invested mining community that was on its knees. Given that the economy was also on it's knee's it was not a great position to be in.
Over the years I remember the end of MIRAS in '88. Very much like the stamp duty relief, at one point there were 3 houses in the business not sold subject to contract.
Equally in 1992 we were running out of for sale boards, having to reuse manky old ones as there was no money to buy more. Repossessions got the worst ones!
We had 2 fee structures from memory. 1.5% including advertising and 1% plus advertising. At one point we were giving notice on stock that was overpriced (due to the falling market). Those clients on the 1% were often a bit miffed when they got the advertising invoice as well!
The internet was unheard of. Rather than being raped by Rightmove, the local paper did the deed. Fierce pricing without the discount kept the new players out of the market. I think we were paying £1,500 a page.
Clients were difficult, sometimes not helped by us. I narrowly avoided walking into the local advertising manager on her sunbed. She shouted at my dad. She shouted again when I did not turn up to show her a house, although I waited ten minutes after the appointment time, which was actually out of my working time. Can't please them all...
I realised how little future there was when a chap whose house was already overpriced and not selling, brought in the Sun which said house prices were rising (not where we were!), and he wanted to put his house price up...
LetsTryAgain said:
Why is it that whenever I view a house which has been on the market for months and months, put an offer in after viewing, and mysteriously they’ve had another offer within the last day or two?
I mean what are the chances!?
I usually walk away at that point.
I’m sure there are honest EA’s, but I’ve never had a great experience in the house buying process from bottom to top.
It could be bullsI mean what are the chances!?
I usually walk away at that point.
I’m sure there are honest EA’s, but I’ve never had a great experience in the house buying process from bottom to top.
t... However, this actually does sometimes happen. I haven't worked out quite why, but occasionally we have a dead property which we've struggled to generate interest on, then suddenly we have 3 or 4 interested parties at once. However, it's not that common...!2 GKC said:
How does an estate agent differentiate itself these days? Surely a sale is about the house, not the agent. Anyone can value a house these days with the information available on the internet. EAs’ MO round my way seems to be to ridiculously over price a house to secure the listing and then reduce it 2 weeks later.
For me it's:1. Marketing strategy
2. Process management/service
3. Buying agency (helping you to buy your next place)
corradokid said:
22s said:
London houses, very hot. London flats with good outside space, very hot. London flats with small outside space (balcony), warm. London flats with no outside space around £500-700k, tepid. London 2/1.5 flats sub £500k with no outside space, tepid. One bed flats with no outside space, cold.
Be interesting to hear what you consider outside space? We are looking to sell and live in a block with communal garden, but no one really seems to use it anyway....Outside space which adds premium is private garden, private roof terrace, private balcony.
fishseller said:
When is the crash coming this overpricing malarkey cant go on for ever ? 
I honestly do not see that happening without a genuine economic shock a la 2008. There is too much of the nation's wealth tied up in property and therefore it's a political trump card to keep prices spiralling ever upwards...MrJuice said:
My friend (genuinely) bought a repossession at £499,999 in the days where the stamp duty went up at 500k. He bribed the agent the day he saw the property. He knows he got it cheap - agent said multiple others offered 550k+
He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
The sale cannot be found on sold house price data because it was below market value.
Another friend is a multi millionaire who started buying flats in big developments. He would buy the last one or last remaining few at big discount because the developer wanted out. Those sales would not be recorded on sold house price data either because below market value. Once sale completed, he would then take out a loan against the property and bank does not know how much he paid. This then does not distort local sold prices data.
Another dude I met was an agent on the south coast who sold land to developers. He said he would sell to the developer who gave the biggest back hander in cash. Not unusual to get 10k in cash. The council people would also gladly be accepting back handers (they were often the ones selling).
My questions
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
2. Is there a lot of this type of activity where cash buyers buy at big discount and then take out loans/sell once they own the proeprty?
3. Is there a lot of cash envelope stuff going on when councils are involved?
Interesting anecdotes, thanks for sharing.He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
The sale cannot be found on sold house price data because it was below market value.
Another friend is a multi millionaire who started buying flats in big developments. He would buy the last one or last remaining few at big discount because the developer wanted out. Those sales would not be recorded on sold house price data either because below market value. Once sale completed, he would then take out a loan against the property and bank does not know how much he paid. This then does not distort local sold prices data.
Another dude I met was an agent on the south coast who sold land to developers. He said he would sell to the developer who gave the biggest back hander in cash. Not unusual to get 10k in cash. The council people would also gladly be accepting back handers (they were often the ones selling).
My questions
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
2. Is there a lot of this type of activity where cash buyers buy at big discount and then take out loans/sell once they own the proeprty?
3. Is there a lot of cash envelope stuff going on when councils are involved?
1. I don't generally deal with repos so can't speak from personally experience. That behaviour is clearly highly unethical, especially as it's taking advantage of someone in a distressed situation, but sadly it's not outside the realms of possibility that it happens.
2. Yes. I invest in property and that's generally how we do it (with a small bit of refurb between purchase and refi). Make a purchase cash or a bridging loan to negotiate a great deal and complete quickly, do a little bit of refurb work, then refi onto a high LTV loan and repeat.
3. Again, no personal experience. However, I used to work with someone who worked as a surveyor who would make recommendations to local authorities on how many units should allowed to be built on a specific site. He regularly got anonymous phone calls offering low tens of thousands if they could convince the council to put X units on a site. They recorded all the phone calls at his firm because of this, so we never know whether he would have taken it or not...
Re: the sales price figures never being recorded, unless the stories about are absolutely ancient, whilst they may not show up on the sold prices on Rightmove etc, they will almost always show up on Land Registry sold prices (unless there is a reason that fits into the exclusions list here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/about-the-price-paid-d...
Al U said:
Why are estate agents involved in selling new build properties so cagey about what they have sold other properties for on the development?
I appreciate that on some of them they have maybe moved more than they would like to admit, but as a buyer who is seriously considering buying one and only wants to ensure that I am not paying way above what other people have paid a bit of transparency would be really helpful.
Because they have highly likely offered a mahoosive discount and will get in sI appreciate that on some of them they have maybe moved more than they would like to admit, but as a buyer who is seriously considering buying one and only wants to ensure that I am not paying way above what other people have paid a bit of transparency would be really helpful.
t and not hit their sales targets if they give everyone a discount. My advice would be to go in 15%-20% below list and let them know you're ready to move fast, and take it from there... Flooble said:
22s said:
MrJuice said:
My friend (genuinely) bought a repossession at £499,999 in the days where the stamp duty went up at 500k. He bribed the agent the day he saw the property. He knows he got it cheap - agent said multiple others offered 550k+
He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
...
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
1. I don't generally deal with repos so can't speak from personally experience. That behaviour is clearly highly unethical, especially as it's taking advantage of someone in a distressed situation, but sadly it's not outside the realms of possibility that it happens.He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
...
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
In the case of a repo would the seller not be the bank? Seems like it wouldn't be the smartest thing in the world to annoy a bank or fail to pass on offers. I can imagine there would be a risk of one of the £550K punters (if real) wondering why they didn't "win" and digging around to find out which bank was selling the place (e.g. look up who had a charge on it) then making a direct offer to the bank. That could be messy for the agent!
brickwall said:
22s said:
PS - Feel free PM me when you might consider selling - happy to help with general advice - even if I don't cover your exact area I'm sure I can give some pointers!
Thanks - I certainly will do.surveyor said:
Lenders are not that dumb. They are under a legal duty to get the best price they can.
My experience is that they will obtain 3 valuations from Chartered Surveyors also. I suspect they would not move far from those without time, or ultimately putting them to auction.
I've only ever been offered a bribe once. I was not tempted, but did down value
I was amused when a few weeks later a different house with the same borrower. He complained that I had down valued the last house. He asked them to appoint a different firm... Clearly that did not work!
Will defer to your greater knowledge of the process on this one!My experience is that they will obtain 3 valuations from Chartered Surveyors also. I suspect they would not move far from those without time, or ultimately putting them to auction.
I've only ever been offered a bribe once. I was not tempted, but did down value
I was amused when a few weeks later a different house with the same borrower. He complained that I had down valued the last house. He asked them to appoint a different firm... Clearly that did not work!
Petrus1983 said:
OP - where are you based geographically?
I'm in SW London.MrJuice said:
robuk said:
That isn't how it works.
I've just double checked Zoopla. Friend's house last sold at 345k in 2002 according to Zoopla. There is a listing from October 2012 which is when he bought it. Listed at 515k. Does not show as sold in 2012 on Zoopla. Sold house prices on land registry shows the last sale as the 2002 sale at 345k.
He was a student then and did not buy at 345k in 2002.. He definitely did a lot of work on the house when he bought it in 2012.
OP, thank you for your comments re your own investments. It appears that you buy "used" flats and then sell. Have you ever bought a new build flat at a big discount and if so, has that data made it to the open listings on land registry? If not your own purchases, can you check any new build flats/houses you know to have sold at significant discount to see if they made it to the public register?
1) Little known 'trick', but you can email Rightmove and ask them to remove your property from the sold house prices. You just need to email them and provide one of these:
Recent utility bill from the last 3 months which shows the date of the letter (e.g. Gas, Electric)
Valid UK Driver’s License
TV License within the last 12 months (which shows the date of the letter)
Council Tax Letter within the last 12 months (which shows the date of the letter)
Title Deeds
I'm sure that a developer could work out a way to do this en masse.
2) For new builds, even if you can see the sold price on Rightmove, because so many are sold off-plan they are often listed without photos and floorplans. This makes it very difficult to even know how many bedrooms one property has vs another, so there could be a very good reason for a discount (one property has river view, another overlooks a train line) or it could be someone has negotiated a whopping discount. The only way to know without inside info is to wait for the second hand mkt to start moving and therefore more info will come to light.
I've just had a quick look back and the ones I bought on behalf of clients for a big discount are showing in the sold price data on Rightmove. However, as per point 2 above, it is impossible for anyone to know whether it's discounted or not due to the lack of contextual information.
Milkbuttons said:
Is it worth asking Rightmove and zoopla to remove your old property details from the public domain in the hope that you can generate a higher sales price?
I'm in two minds on this, on the one hand if you have refurbished a property to a high standard any prospective buyer doing their due diligence you would hope could see why the property is now commanding a higher price.
On the other hand keeping it all a mystery could be a good thing as no one really knows how much the property is worth and you can only really go by its advertised price and the guidance of the estate agent and local knowledge.
What do you think?
Personally I remove it for my properties. From a seller's point of view, the better you can control the conversation around price the better.I'm in two minds on this, on the one hand if you have refurbished a property to a high standard any prospective buyer doing their due diligence you would hope could see why the property is now commanding a higher price.
On the other hand keeping it all a mystery could be a good thing as no one really knows how much the property is worth and you can only really go by its advertised price and the guidance of the estate agent and local knowledge.
What do you think?
oblio said:
OP - do you carry and use foot coverings for potential buyers so they can pop them on before walking in peoples house over their carpets with outdoor shoes on?
Why don't all EA's use these?
"Is it OK to come in with my shoes on?"
(No it isnt) "yes of course" (as you are looking to buy my house and I don't want to pee you off before you've already got inside)
Depends. I always wear shoe coverings to a valuation. I ask the client in our pre-list meeting if they're happy for us to wear clean, dry shoes or not. If not, then I wear shoe coverings and ask buyers if they would like some or would rather take their shoes off. Not sure why other agents don't!Why don't all EA's use these?
"Is it OK to come in with my shoes on?"
(No it isnt) "yes of course" (as you are looking to buy my house and I don't want to pee you off before you've already got inside)
steve-V8s said:
Here is a question, I don't think it has been asked before.
Having viewed a few properties recently I am uncomfortable with the Hurry Hurry, quick make an offer quick quick, approach. If the agent panics the buyers into making an instant offer and potentially bidding the price up does that effect the sale completion rate ? If you allow buyers slightly more time to consider / have the roof inspected / check local information etc. you would think the likelihood of a buyer withdrawing his offer would be significantly reduced.
Is the quick quick hurry hurry approach really helpful in terms of actual sales in the longer term or does it just produce more broken chains ?
Hard to have specific date on this, but anecdotally leads to a higher fall through rate. Ultimately, my role is to get the seller the best possible SALES price, not ACCEPTED price. This is why I discourage bidding wars and never recommend sealed bids (highest offer wins). This means someone will just massively overbid, then 3 weeks later chip 10% after the survey. Not good outcome for anyone!Having viewed a few properties recently I am uncomfortable with the Hurry Hurry, quick make an offer quick quick, approach. If the agent panics the buyers into making an instant offer and potentially bidding the price up does that effect the sale completion rate ? If you allow buyers slightly more time to consider / have the roof inspected / check local information etc. you would think the likelihood of a buyer withdrawing his offer would be significantly reduced.
Is the quick quick hurry hurry approach really helpful in terms of actual sales in the longer term or does it just produce more broken chains ?
cayman-black said:
OK so RM just sent me a property i have gone back to look again and its now sold. So sold in two hours how the hell did they do this? thx!
Possibly sold off market and the agent has now put it online as "advertising" for their own brand, and to encourage buyers to get in touch so they can try to sell them something else.Sahjahd said:
Apologies if this has been asked previously;- what do you make of well known on line property pricing?
Do you find that buyers and sellers are confused by their valuations and have unrealistic expectations as a result?
My reason for asking is purely academic as I noticed the following "information" when idly browsing my own street (street name redacted in the interests of privacy):
"The average price for property in Xxxxxx Crescent stood at £357,086 in April 2021. This is a fall of 0.45% in the last three months (since January 2021) and rise of 5.01% since 12 months ago. In terms of property types, flats in Xxxxxx Crescent sold for an average of £139,329 and terraced houses for £185,525. This is according to the current Zoopla estimates."
There are no flats, and no terraced houses in the Crescent, despite the above sales claim, in fact it comprises only seven detached houses with the most recent sales (last year, of two of the smallest, each around 180 sq.m, sitting on half acre plots) averaging £450,000.
As you've just demonstrated these datasets are largely inaccurate and I generally ignore it. I think most people know it's a load of rubbish as well - just going onto Rightmove Sold Prices for a particular postcode will give you far more insightful data to work with.Do you find that buyers and sellers are confused by their valuations and have unrealistic expectations as a result?
My reason for asking is purely academic as I noticed the following "information" when idly browsing my own street (street name redacted in the interests of privacy):
"The average price for property in Xxxxxx Crescent stood at £357,086 in April 2021. This is a fall of 0.45% in the last three months (since January 2021) and rise of 5.01% since 12 months ago. In terms of property types, flats in Xxxxxx Crescent sold for an average of £139,329 and terraced houses for £185,525. This is according to the current Zoopla estimates."
There are no flats, and no terraced houses in the Crescent, despite the above sales claim, in fact it comprises only seven detached houses with the most recent sales (last year, of two of the smallest, each around 180 sq.m, sitting on half acre plots) averaging £450,000.
Super_G said:
How is a fair price calculated for a part-exchange?
Say there were several properties that had sold for 500k. The property values had gone up and they were now worth 550k. All 3 bedrooms. The local average outside of the nice area a 3 bed could be net for 400k.
What would be considered when coming up with the fair price?
I ask because when my dad was around and wanted to move closer to us. His property was valued at 420k. A one bed in London. The new build developer offered him 370k at the time. Is it based on a percentage or something?!
Should be exactly the same price as any other valuation - you look at comparable recent sales, current competition on the market, prevailing market trends and from there you should have a fairly accurate and tight RANGE (not exact number) that the property will fall into. If you HAVE to pick an exact number then it would be in the middle of that range.Say there were several properties that had sold for 500k. The property values had gone up and they were now worth 550k. All 3 bedrooms. The local average outside of the nice area a 3 bed could be net for 400k.
What would be considered when coming up with the fair price?
I ask because when my dad was around and wanted to move closer to us. His property was valued at 420k. A one bed in London. The new build developer offered him 370k at the time. Is it based on a percentage or something?!
I know some developers look at a "6 week sale" for their valuation, but most properties should have a sale agreed within that timeframe if they are presented and priced properly.
I don't know the ins-and-outs of that part of the business, but there's always an incentive for those providing the PX to suggest a lower value...
Milkbuttons said:
Would you prefer house buying to be the same a Scotland? If not why.
Assuming to the offers being binding once they are agreed, I think it's an interesting idea. I've not spent a lot of time thinking about it to be honest. My initial reaction is "yeah, that's great", but actually I'm not so sure - I think undertaking due diligence on a property is part of the process and if something really unexpected comes up or the buyer's (or seller's) circumstances change, there should be some flexibility. I'm not clued up enough about how the process really works in Scotland to give a definitive answer sadly!Pro Bono said:
Firstly, thanks for taking the time and effort to do this - it's a really valuable insight.
My questions are to do with your relationship with the solicitors and conveyancers involved.
Many years ago I was involved in conveyancing, and our firm used to get a lot of referrals from local agents because we did a good job, went the extra mile for our clients and were reasonably priced. But the Law Society in a moment of madness then decided that it was acceptable for solicitors to pay estate agents referral fees - usually a few hundred quid. In other words it was now acceptable to buy business.
We refused on principle to pay such fees, and as a result we lost a fair amount of business. Some agents were really quite upset, as they wanted to refer clients to us but said they had been instructed by their head office that they should only deal with firms that would pay referral fees. The situation got far worse when the local independent agents, who generally didn't take referral fees, were swallowed up by the big nationals like Countrywide, whose whole business model is based on buying business (and ripping them off with their conveyancing charges, but that's another story!)
In some ways it wasn't a bad thing once we'd adjusted, as we found that the referral fees were taking away the young, inexperienced, very price-conscious, first time buyers. They were generally the hardest work, as they needed their hand holding a lot. The clients who stayed with us were older, wealthier, more sophisticated and basically happy to let us get on with the job. Consequently, they were much easier to deal with. Another bonus of such clients that few of them needed a mortgage, and as lenders became more and more difficult to deal with it was great to deal with cash clients.
But it was depressing that quite vulnerable people were being diverted away from local firms who actually cared about them as clients to national foims of conveyancers who didn't give a stuff, knowing they'd never hear from them again. I also noticed, being all too often on the other side from these firms, just how bad the standard of conveyancing was, due to the work being carried out by unqualified paralegals. I often ended up having to solve problems for them simply to keep the transaction alive.
I'd therefore be interested to know your views on the conveyancers you deal with. I assume you do recommend specific firms / people, but are the recommendations based on how much they pay you or on how well they do the job?
I've always been aware that there's something of a conflict of interest in referrals, as from your point of view I suppose your ideal conveyancer is one who couldn't spot a legal problem if it smacked him in the face! I can imagine that what I would call a good conveyancer, who wanted to dot the i's and cross the t's, could potentially be seen by you as a PITA. Again, it'd be interesting to hear your views.
And finally, a question that others have been too polite to ask, how much do you earn?!
My pleasure, thanks for reading and for the great questions.My questions are to do with your relationship with the solicitors and conveyancers involved.
Many years ago I was involved in conveyancing, and our firm used to get a lot of referrals from local agents because we did a good job, went the extra mile for our clients and were reasonably priced. But the Law Society in a moment of madness then decided that it was acceptable for solicitors to pay estate agents referral fees - usually a few hundred quid. In other words it was now acceptable to buy business.
We refused on principle to pay such fees, and as a result we lost a fair amount of business. Some agents were really quite upset, as they wanted to refer clients to us but said they had been instructed by their head office that they should only deal with firms that would pay referral fees. The situation got far worse when the local independent agents, who generally didn't take referral fees, were swallowed up by the big nationals like Countrywide, whose whole business model is based on buying business (and ripping them off with their conveyancing charges, but that's another story!)
In some ways it wasn't a bad thing once we'd adjusted, as we found that the referral fees were taking away the young, inexperienced, very price-conscious, first time buyers. They were generally the hardest work, as they needed their hand holding a lot. The clients who stayed with us were older, wealthier, more sophisticated and basically happy to let us get on with the job. Consequently, they were much easier to deal with. Another bonus of such clients that few of them needed a mortgage, and as lenders became more and more difficult to deal with it was great to deal with cash clients.
But it was depressing that quite vulnerable people were being diverted away from local firms who actually cared about them as clients to national foims of conveyancers who didn't give a stuff, knowing they'd never hear from them again. I also noticed, being all too often on the other side from these firms, just how bad the standard of conveyancing was, due to the work being carried out by unqualified paralegals. I often ended up having to solve problems for them simply to keep the transaction alive.
I'd therefore be interested to know your views on the conveyancers you deal with. I assume you do recommend specific firms / people, but are the recommendations based on how much they pay you or on how well they do the job?
I've always been aware that there's something of a conflict of interest in referrals, as from your point of view I suppose your ideal conveyancer is one who couldn't spot a legal problem if it smacked him in the face! I can imagine that what I would call a good conveyancer, who wanted to dot the i's and cross the t's, could potentially be seen by you as a PITA. Again, it'd be interesting to hear your views.
And finally, a question that others have been too polite to ask, how much do you earn?!
Very timely you mention conveyancers as we have literally just agreed a referral scheme with the ones I work with (one of which - who annoyingly is my favourite - has refused to pay). Initially, we started the business and found some excellent solicitors who we wanted to work with and put them onto our recommended solicitors panel. One just happened to be local, but others were just decent firms who we knew would be proactive and do a great job. Eventually, it came to the point recently where we're established and we are sending them a HELL of a lot of business. 50%+ of my sellers would work with someone I recommend, and around 25% of buyers, and the fee the solicitors charge the buyer/seller is £1500+ depending on value of property. So, as is industry standard, since I have NEVER been sent any business from them to me (which I don't necessarily expect, but would be nice), we set up a referral agreement for them to pay us a couple of hundred £ for a referral.
Everyone on our panel pays the same to us and they are all great solicitors, so I don't have any incentive to send to one over another. I wouldn't send any of my clients to a volume conveyancer just because they paid a higher referral fee - I'd rather get no referral fee at all, and send them to a decent one - but if I can have both, it's even better.
Interesting point re: the conflict - I've never actually thought of it that way. My view is that for my client I want someone who is professional and will protect my client's interest, whilst also getting the sale done as quickly as possible. On the buyer side, I guess it might be seen as favourable to have a less rigorous solicitor, but really I just want the deal done. The less rigorous solicitors tend to be the lazy and slow ones, so generally it's better for the buyer to have a decent solicitor as well. Also, from an entirely selfish point of view, I want that buyer to be my client when they sell that home in 2/3/4/5 years, so if I give them great service and make a great recommendation for a third party upfront, they're more likely to want to use me. Unlike the complete t
t who sold me my flat.Earnings wise, I will generalise if you don't mind...
London...
- Junior negotiator will earn 30k-50k
- Senior negotiator - 40-60k
- Branch manager - 50k-80k
Now this is where it gets interesting. If you are an absolutely dominant agent in your area and deal with high value stuff, you're looking at the branch manager hitting £200k+ per year.
The above is based upon a basic salary plus a split of the fee income. (usually around 10% of the fee which increases as you hit certain fee income milestones).
Now THIS is where it gets really interesting... I firmly believe we are going to start moving to a commission only model very rapidly over the next 2-3 years.
This is where an agent will get 50%+ of the fee income before increasing up to 75% or even 100% above certain fee income levels. In this scenario, the agent I mentioned above could easily earn £400k+ a year after all costs (potentially even more). Obviously that's the very top of the tree, but I think we will start to see plenty of decent London agents get £150k-£200k income per year after costs.
KTF said:
Pro Bono said:
how much do you earn?!
I think from this aspect I would say that you need a constant stream of properties both being completed and coming on the market.For example, it took 6 months for me to get the keys to our current place. Using example figures of 500k for the house and a 1% commission then thats £5k for the agent.
But spread that over 6 months then its £833 a month and the agent we bought from had 3 people in the office plus various office costs, rightmove fees, etc. so I suspect what sounds like a big number per sale actually becomes quite thin if you don't have the volume coming through the business.
The agent that sold my house was a director of the business and said had the government not allowed agents to open when they did (this was the end of lockdown 1), he was very close to shutting the business down as he had run out of cash to prop it up, the pipeline had dried up and sales that were proceeding prior to lockdown were stuck in limbo so no money from there either.
Thermobaric said:
I've just been reading the Ghosts thread.
How common is it for prospective buyers to ask if there have been any deaths in the property/any supernatural activity experienced by the sellers?
Never been asked that one before!How common is it for prospective buyers to ask if there have been any deaths in the property/any supernatural activity experienced by the sellers?
soxboy said:
I’ve sold probate properties where people have died in them (from old age), only one was where there had been someone who hadn’t been found for a few weeks so there was a bit of a smell in there even after a very deep clean.
The saddest ones in a way were those where people had died elsewhere but they had no family, so going into their house was like going into the Marie Celeste with everything left out just as how they had set out in the morning. There was one that sticks in my mind of someone who had died in a car crash.
I bought a house (from another agent) of someone who had died in hospital with no family, the house had all the belongings in it and the distant family were not interested in clearing it out. Most stuff we had to charity/ skip on completion, although the bloke had been quite into walking so my dad and father-in-law got some decent Berghaus kit and OS maps.
A firm I used to work for were marketing a few years ago a house where someone had killed themself (it cropped up on the pawn thread often), the agents put a note in the brochure in order to clear up any queries.
God, that car crash story is horrible. Imagine that - life just snuffed out in an instant!The saddest ones in a way were those where people had died elsewhere but they had no family, so going into their house was like going into the Marie Celeste with everything left out just as how they had set out in the morning. There was one that sticks in my mind of someone who had died in a car crash.
I bought a house (from another agent) of someone who had died in hospital with no family, the house had all the belongings in it and the distant family were not interested in clearing it out. Most stuff we had to charity/ skip on completion, although the bloke had been quite into walking so my dad and father-in-law got some decent Berghaus kit and OS maps.
A firm I used to work for were marketing a few years ago a house where someone had killed themself (it cropped up on the pawn thread often), the agents put a note in the brochure in order to clear up any queries.
Thermobaric said:
I was wondering about that too. I've seen a few properties for sale where the owner has probably passed away/gone into a home and they were clearly hoarders looking at the photos. It's common for sales to be as is, as in you buy all the crap along with the property and have to deal with it yourself? I guess for the seller, clearing costs are just an expense they don't want to pay and there is no requirement for them to do so.
Not that common in my experience... Generally the buyer will understandably not want to bear the cost/hassle of clearing out someone else's junk from their new house!CSLM3CSL said:
Hi, I would be interested in the answers to a few questions please.
1) who gets the commission for the sale? When I purchased a property I phoned the agent and spoke to a person who took my details. Had first and second viewings with two other agents and submitted my offer to a 4th person. When I spoke to the first person I expected to be their customer but this wasn't the case.
2) Do you think the model where you received a commission on a percentage of the sale price is flawed? Around my way a 1 bed flat for £150k takes a year and dozens of viewings to sell but 700k+ family homes sell in a day.
Based on your experience you probably know as soon as you see the property how easily it will sell based on property type, location, the way it is presented etc. Why not not charge a fixed price or higher percentage on lower value properties and a special rate on the more expensive ones or the ones you know will be an easy seller?
3) when I put an offer in to purchase a property the agents managed to find out the details of everyone in my chain including names, where they were from and the properties they were selling. My own agent who I sold my property through did not know all of this. Where would the agents have got all this info from and is this normal process to do enquire about the chain in detail? or did someone get lucky and spoke to solicitor who told them more than they should have done?
1) Depends on the setup inside the agency. There are two main structures: (a) a negotiator "owns" the property and gets the commission. Sometimes if they're busy they'll get someone else to conduct the initial phone call with a buyer or conduct viewings, do the negotiations, etc. (b) a negotiator "owns" the buyer and gets the commission for whichever property that buyer purchases. I personally prefer (a) as it means there is much more client focus and knowledge about a specific property, but lots of busy offices use (b).1) who gets the commission for the sale? When I purchased a property I phoned the agent and spoke to a person who took my details. Had first and second viewings with two other agents and submitted my offer to a 4th person. When I spoke to the first person I expected to be their customer but this wasn't the case.
2) Do you think the model where you received a commission on a percentage of the sale price is flawed? Around my way a 1 bed flat for £150k takes a year and dozens of viewings to sell but 700k+ family homes sell in a day.
Based on your experience you probably know as soon as you see the property how easily it will sell based on property type, location, the way it is presented etc. Why not not charge a fixed price or higher percentage on lower value properties and a special rate on the more expensive ones or the ones you know will be an easy seller?
3) when I put an offer in to purchase a property the agents managed to find out the details of everyone in my chain including names, where they were from and the properties they were selling. My own agent who I sold my property through did not know all of this. Where would the agents have got all this info from and is this normal process to do enquire about the chain in detail? or did someone get lucky and spoke to solicitor who told them more than they should have done?
2) An astute observation. If I'm in a competitive situation versus another agent or I really want the property (e.g. it will be a flagship sale in a higher than normal price category) then I might flex my fee slightly, but this is very rare. I keep it fair and the same for almost all my customers. You're also as a client purchasing the expertise, experience and process management of the agent - "selling" it is one thing, but keeping the deal together once agreed is a whole other piece which often gets forgotten, but is where the value of a good agent really becomes valuable. This is the same whether it's £150k or £1.5m, and is actually the part of the process which takes longest and overall probably requires as many manhours as the marketing (especially in London where lease issues are very common). If there's a property I really don't want for whatever reason, I might put forward a higher than normal fee.
3) It sounds like the agent you were purchasing from was rigorous and doing a good job on behalf of their client. Ultimately, your agent has a responsibility to ensure that any offer they put forward to you has been fully investigate. This means performing a "chain-check", which essentially involves calling each agent down the chain, finding out who the buyer is, what their financial position, timeline, etc is, making sure everything lines up as expected. The real mess comes when agents don't do this and your selling agents make an assumption about the chain situation, which then results in misaligned dates, expectations, etc. Solicitors normally don't answer these questions, although they might confirm that have been instructed by Mr CSLM3CSL for the sale of 123 Example St.
105.4 said:
Would you consider the picture below showing a repair my landlord did, to be of an acceptable standard?
And no, this sadly isn’t a joke
Sorry to see that... Unfortunately the world is full of knobhead landlords.And no, this sadly isn’t a joke
Sorry everyone for slow replies... here we go...!
What you're looking for is what EVERYONE is looking for, and the people who live in those houses often don't have a compelling reason to move. Nearly all of my clients are leaving London to the burbs and looking for a house near to good schools etc.
You just need to be in every local agent's ear until the right thing comes along. I personally don't think that most stuff gets shifted off-market - it's just a rumour. From my position, unless my client especially wants to sell off-market, putting the property on the portals and running a full sales campaign will get the best result. Yes, I might get a hot buyer in early and if they make a compelling offer which my client accepts that's great, but more often than not we'll put the property online to get max exposure to buyers.
You might need to start putting notes through doors on roads you've identified as wanting to live in...
Good luck!
What worries me is of the two-three agents we've spoken to, none have passed on any info about 'forthcoming' houses, which I'd usually expect (given it's what, a week or two between instruction and listing?). Our requirements aren't unusually specific..
On latter point, depends if you're speaking with the negotiator or "valuer". Valuer is the "boss" and will win the new business; the neg speaks primarily with buyers so may not know the upcoming stock (though they should - just poor office management...).
Regarding insurance, this is a question I don't know the answer to, but really should. I actually got asked this on a valuation for the first time ever on Friday! It's organised at a company level. Thanks for bringing it up.
Ultimately reducing the fee is not really a way to build trust back, so I'm not surprised you switched agents!
Re: the garage conversion point - this is what I mean about poor buyer management. Ultimately, if you have taken 5-10 minutes to learn about what the buyer is really looking for, that conversation would never come up on the viewing, and it would instead be talking about access arrangements etc etc.
It's actually quite depressing reading this thread!
It's interesting you mention it being a one way business, as I was always conscious that I was receiving far more referrals than I was giving. Unfortunately it's the nature of the job. People who are selling their house nearly always appoint an agent without any reference to their solicitor, and in most cases we only got to know about the sale when the house was actually sold. We did have the odd probate sale or repo that we could steer to a specific agent, but unfortunately the agent who sent me most of my work only dealt with upmarket properties, and wouldn't have been too keen on selling a two up two down repo!
It was a really good relationship though, and it worked very well. Referral fees were never even mentioned, but it was a different era, when firms were run by local people, and professional relationships were based on mutual liking and trust rather than money. It was a sad day when the principal decided to call it a day and sold to a national firm that insisted on referral fees. I also know that most of the clients that were referred to the firms that paid referral fees would have received a far poorer service than we offered.
The problem with referral fees is that they have to come out of the solicitor's fee income, which means the solicitor is in effect getting a reduced fee for the same work. This has led to some extremely dodgy pricing practices in order to get the fee back up to where they want it. So the headline fee might be £1,000 + VAT, but the small print then kicks in, whereby the solicitors add on charges for all sorts of things that should be included in the basic fee. I even saw one firm that added a charge of £95 as a contribution to their professional indemnity premium!
Licensed conveyancers are even worse, as they appear to be more loosely regulated than solicitors - for example, they are allowed to act for both the buyer and the seller which seems mad to me. I recently had a friend who had been referred by the agents to a national firm of LC's and they showed me an 8 page list of charges for `extras' they'd been sent. The headline fee quoted by the agents ended up being nearly twice as much - it was a complete disgrace.
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to run this thread, it's been really interesting.No, we don't send any referrals to the one who doesn't pay fees. The other solicitors on our margin are very nearly as good (there will be no appreciable level in difference of service with customers, but are sometimes slightly slower to respond to me personally) so I can't justify missing out on £200 per referral. On the flipside, I don't actually refer to make the money primarily - I refer because the solicitors are good!
I do completely appreciate what you're saying about the relationship building and agreed it is a bit sad, but sometimes the commercial decision needs to be taken.
Agreed on LCs and I groan whenever a buyer or seller wants to use them!
Thanks for the engagement on the thread and sharing an interesting viewpoint!
I’ll wager he doesn’t get many referrals.Sorry again to see that - what a state. I don't do much lettings work so difficult for me to advise here.
2gins said:
I'm in the same area as you, OP. We're under offer and looking for the onward move. There's competition as ever, but very little coming on. It should be a hot market for what we want (garden/garage/schools) but there is nothing coming on the portals and when asked directly on the keep in touch phone calls, very little coming through the system generally. We've been advised our expectations are reasonable and what we want exists at our budget, and I think we're doing everything we can to find somewhere but it's very frustrating. There's just nothing out there - it's all £2m+ or £850k with no parking.
Why are people holding back from listing? Is this likely to change? I don't believe it's SDLT as you've said, 15k is small change at this level.
Also would you agree that the best properties never see RM etc, but sell through contact lists / hot buyer's lists, and thus everything on RM (generalising!) is the unsellable dross and the plum stuff goes under the radar?
Congrats on going under offer.Why are people holding back from listing? Is this likely to change? I don't believe it's SDLT as you've said, 15k is small change at this level.
Also would you agree that the best properties never see RM etc, but sell through contact lists / hot buyer's lists, and thus everything on RM (generalising!) is the unsellable dross and the plum stuff goes under the radar?
What you're looking for is what EVERYONE is looking for, and the people who live in those houses often don't have a compelling reason to move. Nearly all of my clients are leaving London to the burbs and looking for a house near to good schools etc.
You just need to be in every local agent's ear until the right thing comes along. I personally don't think that most stuff gets shifted off-market - it's just a rumour. From my position, unless my client especially wants to sell off-market, putting the property on the portals and running a full sales campaign will get the best result. Yes, I might get a hot buyer in early and if they make a compelling offer which my client accepts that's great, but more often than not we'll put the property online to get max exposure to buyers.
You might need to start putting notes through doors on roads you've identified as wanting to live in...
Good luck!
essayer said:
2gins said:
Also would you agree that the best properties never see RM etc, but sell through contact lists / hot buyer's lists, and thus everything on RM (generalising!) is the unsellable dross and the plum stuff goes under the radar?
Watching with interest as we are about to go on for a sideways move with what is a very saleable house but a very limited selection appearing on RMWhat worries me is of the two-three agents we've spoken to, none have passed on any info about 'forthcoming' houses, which I'd usually expect (given it's what, a week or two between instruction and listing?). Our requirements aren't unusually specific..
Timja said:
What sort of insurance cover do you have for theft during viewings and have you ever had problems?
When viewing houses I have been sometimes surprised how many agents after showing you round give you full access to wander round the house unaccompanied. I get that its more comfortable and as a buyer i appreciated the time to have a look around but felt that surely there is an element of society who use viewings to get easy access to peoples homes.
Tied into this insurance question is something we experienced when selling our last place. There was a viewing booked for 10am with agent showing them round, we were out all day and got home in the evening to discover they had not locked our front door when they left so had been unlocked all day!
We were livid, the agent apologised then said they had insurance which would cover if anything happened. We pointed out that not everything is replaceable. They said it was the 1st time it had ever happened but i dont believe them and must happen every so often - but what does your insurance cover.
We were not happy with how the agent reacted despite an offer to reduce fees so dropped them and changed agents as trust was gone.
I echo others comments regarding the lack of photos and dimensions of garages - this is one of my main interests viewing a house! - Even an external photo so you know if its a wide brick built modern insulated garage or narrow concrete and asbestos roof style etc.. When we were last looking agents said they hardly ever get asked about garages as most people just fill with junk! - On several viewings agents said about doing a garage conversion to get additional space as if that was a great idea - No, I want the garage for my car!
I can also echo the frustration of poorly informed agents / staff who do viewings. Majority of the time the people showing us around knew nothing about the house or sellers position. Was very frustrating and we much preferred the home owners showing us round. people doing viewings added little value to the sale, often just stating the obvious like 'this is the kitchen'.
Sorry about your bad experiences.When viewing houses I have been sometimes surprised how many agents after showing you round give you full access to wander round the house unaccompanied. I get that its more comfortable and as a buyer i appreciated the time to have a look around but felt that surely there is an element of society who use viewings to get easy access to peoples homes.
Tied into this insurance question is something we experienced when selling our last place. There was a viewing booked for 10am with agent showing them round, we were out all day and got home in the evening to discover they had not locked our front door when they left so had been unlocked all day!
We were livid, the agent apologised then said they had insurance which would cover if anything happened. We pointed out that not everything is replaceable. They said it was the 1st time it had ever happened but i dont believe them and must happen every so often - but what does your insurance cover.
We were not happy with how the agent reacted despite an offer to reduce fees so dropped them and changed agents as trust was gone.
I echo others comments regarding the lack of photos and dimensions of garages - this is one of my main interests viewing a house! - Even an external photo so you know if its a wide brick built modern insulated garage or narrow concrete and asbestos roof style etc.. When we were last looking agents said they hardly ever get asked about garages as most people just fill with junk! - On several viewings agents said about doing a garage conversion to get additional space as if that was a great idea - No, I want the garage for my car!
I can also echo the frustration of poorly informed agents / staff who do viewings. Majority of the time the people showing us around knew nothing about the house or sellers position. Was very frustrating and we much preferred the home owners showing us round. people doing viewings added little value to the sale, often just stating the obvious like 'this is the kitchen'.
Regarding insurance, this is a question I don't know the answer to, but really should. I actually got asked this on a valuation for the first time ever on Friday! It's organised at a company level. Thanks for bringing it up.
Ultimately reducing the fee is not really a way to build trust back, so I'm not surprised you switched agents!
Re: the garage conversion point - this is what I mean about poor buyer management. Ultimately, if you have taken 5-10 minutes to learn about what the buyer is really looking for, that conversation would never come up on the viewing, and it would instead be talking about access arrangements etc etc.
It's actually quite depressing reading this thread!
Pro Bono said:
22s said:
Very timely you mention conveyancers as we have literally just agreed a referral scheme with the ones I work with (one of which - who annoyingly is my favourite - has refused to pay).
So will you still be sending him any referrals? It's interesting you mention it being a one way business, as I was always conscious that I was receiving far more referrals than I was giving. Unfortunately it's the nature of the job. People who are selling their house nearly always appoint an agent without any reference to their solicitor, and in most cases we only got to know about the sale when the house was actually sold. We did have the odd probate sale or repo that we could steer to a specific agent, but unfortunately the agent who sent me most of my work only dealt with upmarket properties, and wouldn't have been too keen on selling a two up two down repo!
It was a really good relationship though, and it worked very well. Referral fees were never even mentioned, but it was a different era, when firms were run by local people, and professional relationships were based on mutual liking and trust rather than money. It was a sad day when the principal decided to call it a day and sold to a national firm that insisted on referral fees. I also know that most of the clients that were referred to the firms that paid referral fees would have received a far poorer service than we offered.
The problem with referral fees is that they have to come out of the solicitor's fee income, which means the solicitor is in effect getting a reduced fee for the same work. This has led to some extremely dodgy pricing practices in order to get the fee back up to where they want it. So the headline fee might be £1,000 + VAT, but the small print then kicks in, whereby the solicitors add on charges for all sorts of things that should be included in the basic fee. I even saw one firm that added a charge of £95 as a contribution to their professional indemnity premium!
Licensed conveyancers are even worse, as they appear to be more loosely regulated than solicitors - for example, they are allowed to act for both the buyer and the seller which seems mad to me. I recently had a friend who had been referred by the agents to a national firm of LC's and they showed me an 8 page list of charges for `extras' they'd been sent. The headline fee quoted by the agents ended up being nearly twice as much - it was a complete disgrace.
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to run this thread, it's been really interesting.
I do completely appreciate what you're saying about the relationship building and agreed it is a bit sad, but sometimes the commercial decision needs to be taken.
Agreed on LCs and I groan whenever a buyer or seller wants to use them!
Thanks for the engagement on the thread and sharing an interesting viewpoint!
105.4 said:
cayman-black said:
Well, i cant stop laughing!
We’re not quite so amused. This isn’t the worst of the Landlords ‘fixes’. He’s in the building trade himself. If this is what the work is like on his own home, can you imagine what the work is like at customers homes?I’ll wager he doesn’t get many referrals.
67Dino said:
I saw an ad for a new company called “Boomin” on TV the other night. Looks like Zoopla to me. Any insight into what this is and views on whether it will take off?
It's the Bruce Brothers' (PurpleBricks founders) new gig. They want to make an all encompassing new portal to "help agents maximise their income". It has some kind of interesting features, but they have their work cutout to topple Rightmove and Zoopla.They have actually put all of our agency's properties on their portal without asking, which is pretty disappointing.
Ultimately, the most interesting thing is that the Bruce Brothers spent several years trying to put agents out of business through PurpleBricks, and have now done a complete u-turn with Boomin and its messaging. Very ironic.
If I think long and hard about it, it wouldn't surprise me if they're doing a datagrab and then trying to emulate Zillow in the US and try to cut out agents again... Let's see.
Mr_J said:
Am I being unreasonable?
We live on the South Coast and have found a house of interest to us in Lincolnshire. I've finally spoken to the "local expert" from Purple Bricks who's informed me that they can't arrange a viewing because my property is not on the market.
I can understand that they would advise the vendor not to accept an offer but is it now normal practice to not even entertain a viewing?
To add. I was enquiring about doing the viewing after the next relaxing of Covid restrictions.
I sympathise with your situation and understand your frustration.We live on the South Coast and have found a house of interest to us in Lincolnshire. I've finally spoken to the "local expert" from Purple Bricks who's informed me that they can't arrange a viewing because my property is not on the market.
I can understand that they would advise the vendor not to accept an offer but is it now normal practice to not even entertain a viewing?
To add. I was enquiring about doing the viewing after the next relaxing of Covid restrictions.
However, generally I would not organise a viewing with a buyer if they need to sell to make the purchase and are not on the market. However, it completely depends on the situation...
Is the property empty? What have I agreed with the owner re: non-proceedable buyers? How long has it been on the market? How popular is it?
If a buyer is really insistent they want to view, then I will speak with my client and see if they are open to accommodating a viewing. Equally, if the property is empty and I'm therefore not disrupting my client then I will be more flexible. If it's been on the market for a while without much interest, again it might make sense to accommodate.
a311 said:
Mr_J said:
Am I being unreasonable?
We live on the South Coast and have found a house of interest to us in Lincolnshire. I've finally spoken to the "local expert" from Purple Bricks who's informed me that they can't arrange a viewing because my property is not on the market.
I can understand that they would advise the vendor not to accept an offer but is it now normal practice to not even entertain a viewing?
To add. I was enquiring about doing the viewing after the next relaxing of Covid restrictions.
I'd imagine that is on the vendors instruction. I viewed a house a couple of months ago via PB so imagine their initial pre viewing questionnaire is always the same. Our house wasn't up for sale which we were truthful about. You could always bend the truth if you want a viewing.......We live on the South Coast and have found a house of interest to us in Lincolnshire. I've finally spoken to the "local expert" from Purple Bricks who's informed me that they can't arrange a viewing because my property is not on the market.
I can understand that they would advise the vendor not to accept an offer but is it now normal practice to not even entertain a viewing?
To add. I was enquiring about doing the viewing after the next relaxing of Covid restrictions.
Reading around various home buying and selling threads at present it seems universally to be a sellers market across the board at the moment.
We weren't willing to put our house up for sale until we had a offer accepted on another house.
Mr_J said:
You're correct about it being a sellers market. If a property near where we live stays on the market for more than a week, it's generally because the price / condition etc don't align.
In this instance the house we want to view has been on the market since November!
Our plans were / are loosely aligned to yours. Find somewhere we want to offer on and then market our own house. If we missed out, we'd take the pragmatic view that it wasn't meant to be.
I eventually managed to get PB to agree to a virtual viewing. That would either rule it out or confirm an interest.
It all seems like incredibly hard work and wondered if was simply PB.
Okay, now seeing it's on since November... I'd be getting you through the door.In this instance the house we want to view has been on the market since November!
Our plans were / are loosely aligned to yours. Find somewhere we want to offer on and then market our own house. If we missed out, we'd take the pragmatic view that it wasn't meant to be.
I eventually managed to get PB to agree to a virtual viewing. That would either rule it out or confirm an interest.
It all seems like incredibly hard work and wondered if was simply PB.
Red9zero said:
What effect do problem neighbours have on the value of a house (similar are up for £450k) and the ability to sell it ? Also, what actually needs to be declared ?
Quick run down - we live in a semi and the problem neighbour is joined to us. We have had one run in, probably 5 years ago, over them and their friends constantly blocking our car in. Since then we are civil but nothing more. We have never reported them to the Police or council.
However, every few months she has a meltdown, calls fire, police and ambulance threatening to top herself and accuses her on/off boyfriend of stalking etc. No charges ever made, but we get visits (over 100 since we moved in 8 years ago) from the BiB asking if we saw anything. We are always helpful and let them view our cctv too. There are also regular screaming matches with said b/f with the c word regularly used. Intermittent visits from her dealer too.
I assume we would have to declare the problem and take a hit on the value (we have been told £50k) as well as having difficulty finding a buyer.
Do you have any experience or advice, other than wait for her to move ?
Sorry to hear about the situation - sounds like a complete headache.Quick run down - we live in a semi and the problem neighbour is joined to us. We have had one run in, probably 5 years ago, over them and their friends constantly blocking our car in. Since then we are civil but nothing more. We have never reported them to the Police or council.
However, every few months she has a meltdown, calls fire, police and ambulance threatening to top herself and accuses her on/off boyfriend of stalking etc. No charges ever made, but we get visits (over 100 since we moved in 8 years ago) from the BiB asking if we saw anything. We are always helpful and let them view our cctv too. There are also regular screaming matches with said b/f with the c word regularly used. Intermittent visits from her dealer too.
I assume we would have to declare the problem and take a hit on the value (we have been told £50k) as well as having difficulty finding a buyer.
Do you have any experience or advice, other than wait for her to move ?
Grey area, but you legally need to declare any "disputes" with neighbours. If you haven't been to court, then the question is how anyone would know... The problem is if you do not declare any issues with neighbours and the new buyer proceeds on the basis of there being no disputes, and that is comes out later (backed by evidence e.g. emails and texts, sworn witness statements) that there is a dispute, they can sue you.
Whether the above is a "dispute" is what I question... Sounds like she's a weirdo, but doesn't sound like you're actually at war with her...
Sheepshanks said:
When we sold late FIL’s place as soon as EAs opened up after the first lockdown the agent only allowed proceedable buyers to view. We had virtual viewing but it didn’t appear to be used. Still few listings around us have it.
I think now it’s a combination of demand and agents’ interpretation of the rules. I noticed a place advertising an open house last Saturday and they’re not allowed under the rules.
Probably already mentioned but Purple Bricks etc puts me off a house - I always think the owner can’t have any confidence in the place so doesn’t want the cost of a proper agent.
That's an interesting view re: PB!I think now it’s a combination of demand and agents’ interpretation of the rules. I noticed a place advertising an open house last Saturday and they’re not allowed under the rules.
Probably already mentioned but Purple Bricks etc puts me off a house - I always think the owner can’t have any confidence in the place so doesn’t want the cost of a proper agent.
LetsTryAgain said:
Sheepshanks said:
I always think the owner can’t have any confidence in the place so doesn’t want the cost of a proper agent.
Whereas I think they must be sick of shyster EA's (not all, I'm sure) who take too much money for doing not anywhere near enough work and it's nice to find an alternative to throwing away £1000's to someone in a shiny Topman suit and a BMW Mini. RowanF said:
May I ask about financial services offerings.
Are you under obligation to refer clients to your in house or recommend mortgage advisers?
I hear of agents telling buyers their offer will only be put forward if they use their advisers, even if they have their own; or have to be vetted by their advisers, even if they have a broker AIP for example.
Surely the client should be free to use who they like?
No obligation to refer. As with our solicitors, if I think it's appropriate or someone asks for a recommendation, I will refer them to our recommended mortgage broker.Are you under obligation to refer clients to your in house or recommend mortgage advisers?
I hear of agents telling buyers their offer will only be put forward if they use their advisers, even if they have their own; or have to be vetted by their advisers, even if they have a broker AIP for example.
Surely the client should be free to use who they like?
I actually had this when I bought my most recent place with them insisting I "legally" had to come into their office to meet their broker, even though I knew that wasn't actually the case.
No matter what they tell you, there is no obligation to do this assuming you have proof of funds / mortgage AIP from elsewhere). Whether you just go through the process in order to keep the agent sweet (which is what I did much to my chagrin as I really wanted the property) is another question... Took 20 mins to have the chat, then just used my normal mortgage broker anyway. Complete waste of everyone's time!
Crafty_ said:
I believe that an estate agent is legally obliged to put forward any offer to the seller. Its quite acceptable for an estate agent to check that a bidder has the means to back up their offer, but an AIP / bank statement is enough for that really.
The "you need to use our guy" stuff is all about chasing referral fees.
Correct. Though an offer needs to be put forward even if you haven't provided proof of funds. Not advisable to do so from buyer point of view, though, as you look disorganised at best, timewaster at worst.The "you need to use our guy" stuff is all about chasing referral fees.
Fast Bug said:
a311 said:
I'd imagine that is on the vendors instruction. I viewed a house a couple of months ago via PB so imagine their initial pre viewing questionnaire is always the same. Our house wasn't up for sale which we were truthful about. You could always bend the truth if you want a viewing.......
Reading around various home buying and selling threads at present it seems universally to be a sellers market across the board at the moment.
We weren't willing to put our house up for sale until we had a offer accepted on another house.
Having sold our house earlier this year and waiting to exchange comtracts, I can honestly say I wouldn't entertain an offer from someone that doesn't have their house on the market yet. We had an offer from someone that hadn't sold that asked us to take our house off the market and we declined, it could be months before they sold their house which would put us in a weak position for putting an offer in on a property. In fact we didn't submit any offers until we had accepted an offer on our house Reading around various home buying and selling threads at present it seems universally to be a sellers market across the board at the moment.
We weren't willing to put our house up for sale until we had a offer accepted on another house.
2gins said:
Here's another one from me. Do you see the new immigration lure for Hong Kong exiles (supposedly 300k could come over, according to press) contributing to price pressures especially in nice parts of outer London? (I do, and I'm not happy about it!)
Probably, though there's a lot of other drivers of the market at the moment... Vaccine rollout, life returning to normal, super low interest rates, people making big life moves to family houses earlier after a year of saving up, people now certain of work patterns going forward and not needing to go into work so much... Etc.Pit Pony said:
We went to look at a private sale bungalow. Nobody had even washed up the breakfast things. Hand bag was next to the bed. There was washing on a clothes horse in a lounge. We had travelled 110 miles to view it. This was before the interweb and there was just one photo on the details of the outside.
My wife walked out within 45 seconds. Refused to even look beyond the mess. She was incredibly affected by the way it looked like time had stopped.
Luckily we also had 3 other houses to view that day, and her mother lived in the town so we were staying over.
Shame really because it had everything we were looking for.
The 92 year old across the road died in October. Within days 5 skips had been delivered and filled with his whole life, and taken away (one at a time). His only relative was a niece, who I'd met a few times and felt she actually didn't much like her uncle much.
Its been sold, bought by a builder who has filled another skip with the 1966 bathroom and kitchen. Expecting to see it on the market for 45k more than the asking price.
Very sad!My wife walked out within 45 seconds. Refused to even look beyond the mess. She was incredibly affected by the way it looked like time had stopped.
Luckily we also had 3 other houses to view that day, and her mother lived in the town so we were staying over.
Shame really because it had everything we were looking for.
The 92 year old across the road died in October. Within days 5 skips had been delivered and filled with his whole life, and taken away (one at a time). His only relative was a niece, who I'd met a few times and felt she actually didn't much like her uncle much.
Its been sold, bought by a builder who has filled another skip with the 1966 bathroom and kitchen. Expecting to see it on the market for 45k more than the asking price.
105.4 said:
If a landlord is refusing to carry out maintenance work, can the tenant pay for the repairs, provide receipts, then deduct that amount off of the rent?
Thanks in advance.
Not my area of expertise sadly, though I'm pretty sure the answer is no. If that were legally possible, there would be no end of drama.Thanks in advance.
Have you seen the steps here? https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-...
Thank you for the kind words... Just trying to show "the other side" and demonstrate we're not all scumbags (though I admit a lot are).
Happy to help with any other questions!
@FrankAbagnale - I received your PM earlier; thanks for the message. Sorry I can't reply directly. I think you'll be okay with your latest purchase. Re: your KF question, it was definitely Oxfordshire!
Happy to help with any other questions!
@FrankAbagnale - I received your PM earlier; thanks for the message. Sorry I can't reply directly. I think you'll be okay with your latest purchase. Re: your KF question, it was definitely Oxfordshire!
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