Site next door being developed, access to our wall?

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

Our house has a 0.4 acre site next to it, which has been vacant for 15 years. It has PP for 9 terraced houses to be built, which expires in September. On Wednesday the site went to auction, and sold. We therefore think it likely that development will begin sooner rather than later, to ensure PP doesn't lapse. Our garden wall (owned, is on our deeds) runs from the front of our house right to the back of our garden, IE the entire length of the site next door.

Furthermore 15 years of being left to it's own devices has meant a thick coverage of bushes (Buddleia) and trees have grown throughout. Many of these are adjacent to our wall, meaning roots have damaged the wall, resulting in certain cracks and damaged bricks. I would hazard a guess that the developer will be inclined to put a fence along the wall rather than make it good, which would also see the wall enclosed.

So this leaves the following questions.

• Is the developer, now the owner of the site, responsible for both the cost and work to make good their side of our wall?
• What do we need to do to ensure either an access right to maintain our wall moving forward, or to have a 'rule' put in place that new home owners need to keep it in good condition?
• Can we insist that the wall is not fenced over, to ensure A) it is repaired, and B) can be maintained moving forward.

Can anyone offer any words of advice?

An image of the site plan, for reference.

Edited by Fermit and Sexy Sarah on Friday 11th June 18:56

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

princeperch said:

Can't help with your query but the car parking situation doesn't look like its going to be much fun...

It won't be ideal, but shouldn't be too much of a problem. The plan includes 20 parking spaces, so for 9x 2 beds that should be about right. We're now a single car household, and the neighbour has a garage at the back of his house. Should I get a car at some point we also have an off street space to the rear of ours, which is to small to accommodate the Insignia. It will be a little more hassle for people visiting us, but they will deal with it.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

Equus said:

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

So this leaves the following questions.

1 Is the developer, now the owner of the site, responsible for both the cost and work to make good their side of our wall?

2 What do we need to do to ensure either an access right to maintain our wall moving forward, or to have a 'rule' put in place that new home owners need to keep it in good condition?

3 Can we insist that the wall is not fenced over, to ensure A) it is repaired, and B) can be maintained moving forward.

1) It depends on the ownership of the wall. It it is T-marked on the title deeds, it is the responsibility of the owner on whose side the T-marks lie. If there is no indication of ownership in the deeds, then the whole wall (both sides) is likely to be considered the shared responsibility/liability of both plots. I would expect most responsible developers to bear the initial cost of putting the wall into good order themselves, but that would be entirely goodwill on their part and some might simply erect a close-boarded fence in front of it and forget about it.

2) Nothing. You have a right of access to neighbouring land for maintenance purposes (only) under (guess what..) the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992. However;

3) No.

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

Can anyone offer any words of advice?

Knowing you as I do from your previous posts: move house. You're not going to enjoy living there, with a building site next door.

1, 2, and 3 - 'stuff'

Very good advice, and genuinely much appreciated.

Your last paragraph. No, you don't know me. The neighbour to the other side is a selfish self centered rude ahole, who considers no one but himself. I could elaborate, but will just leave you with one example of the 'man' he is. The day after my wife miscarried he said to the pair of us bold as brass 'well, some people just aren't meant to have children' Sarah has not chatted with him since.

We won't be moving, this house has been a labour of love for us. A brief chat with the auction house informed me that the guys who have bought it are decent folk, so at some point when we see them on site we will approach them with a cup of tea and have a friendly chat about it.

Edited by Fermit and Sexy Sarah on Friday 11th June 19:12

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

TwistingMyMelon said:

If he knew your wife mismarried that is a truly horrid thing to say, I don't blame you for hating him

He did. It was the first thing he said on being informed. No 'oh I'm so sorry for your loss'

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

Equus said:

I wasn't thinking of your dealings with your neighbour, specifically.

I don't think there's anyone who likes having a building site next door, but if you're the kind of person who let's minor irritations get to you, it's going to be a couple of years of purgatory, followed by a bunch of stuff that will niggle you forever...

We'll deal with it. It's in everyones interest to keep it amicable, there are cons once it's developed, but pros too, believe it or not. And my anxiety is being worked on with the help of pro's, having peaked previously. I'll keep my cool.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

To conclude the thread, a few hours ago I had a further chat with a guy from the auction house, and he advised it is 3 local guys who have bought it. He knows one of them personally, and describes him as a great bloke (and gave his first name and description so I'll recognise him) They have exchanged, and when complete they will crack on clearing the site, to be ready to build.

Without pouncing on them the second I see them I'll approach them and introduce, have a chat, discuss a few bits etc. The auction guy, knowing how they do things, says it's unlikely they'll fence the wall in, A) to be decent, as pulling out roots may damage the wall further, so he's sure they'll make it good, and B) we have a row of leylandii, so it would make it hard to prune them with a fence in place.

I'm relaxed. When work starts, as long as the builders are sound, I'll do Friday morning bacon butties. An old trick of mine is that fed workers are happy workers, and accordingly you keep them on side. I do it for every tradesmen we have, so will extend it them.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

bennno said:

They’ll be queuing up for their morning craps next. I’d not be feeding next doors building development.

Disagree. Look after people you want onside and they'll be likely accommodating of you if you make an ask to benefit you. It's a fiver of bacon and 10 minutes of my time a week.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

iphonedyou said:

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

Disagree. Look after people you want onside and they'll be likely accommodating of you if you make an ask to benefit you. It's a fiver of bacon and 10 minutes of my time a week.

It is a bit odd though. And transparent enough to come across a bit patronising.

Being subtle mind 'I'm just doing myself a bacon buttie, any of you fancy one?' You maybe right though, thinking about it.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

MDMA . said:

Genuine question, and don't take this the wrong way, but why would you now want someone else to repair and maintain your wall when it has been left for 15 years? If the plot has been empty for so long, why have you not repaired/maintained it and kept it in sound condition?

Firstly, it's a bloody big wall. As mentioned it runs all the way from the beginning of the front side passage to the end of the car port meeting the road behind. We have been maintaining and painting on our side since moving in 5 (?) years ago, but the entire house is a development, having been un-loved for many decades. Accordingly there is still a fair bit of it needing attention!

We believe (and we'll be pulling out the deeds when we get a mo, thanks again to Equus for apt advice) that the owners of the site are responsible for maintaining 'their' side of the wall until the houses are sold, so why would we not push them to meet this obligation (if it is the case)

Also worth noting that the previous site owner had zero interest in maintaining the site. When we repaired a split in the wall caused by Buddleia roots on his side it took many calls for him to attend to assess, and pay us back expenses for the work we'd had to do. He only eventually showed up when I told his PA 'he either gets over today or we'll issue small claims court papers', having been given the same line repeatedly by them.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

Equus said:

I tend to agree with ipy that it's a bit... odd.

Depending on how hard the developer hits the project, you may also be in for a bit of a shock over how things work on this sort of development.

It's not going to be one old boy leaning on his shovel while his lad does all the work. It's not a domestic extension.

More likely a groundworks contractor comes in and blitzes the site, then a site manager takes over coordinating various direct trades and subcontractors working from a site cabin in a secure compound. The site itself will be fully secured with Heras fencing (so you might have to lob the bacon butties over the top; or maybe fly them in by drone).

There will be several trades on site, most of the time, and they will all be working. The building site is their place of work. The idea is to get it built and sold as fast as possible, so that the money tied up in it can be moved on to the next project.

You will be viewed as .. eccentric... at best, if you start wandering about the site offering bacon butties to all and sundry.

They will also take Health and Safety very seriously, and if you enter the site without full PPE and a valid CSCS card, you'll be politely but very firmly asked to leave right now.

OK, I'll skip offering any. I have always offered tradesmen working on any of my or our homes, feeling that a fed worker is a happy and therefore productive worker. I guess offering neighbouring workers the same is a step too far.

It is the first time that either of us have had a neighbouring development built, so yes, what to expect may come as a surprise. Credit us with some intelligence though that we understand it won't be 'one old boy leaning on his shovel while his lad does all the work'
Also remember, this is your day job, I'd hope you do know such processes inside out.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

Equus said:

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

We believe (and we'll be pulling out the deeds when we get a mo, thanks again to Equus for apt advice) that the owners of the site are responsible for maintaining 'their' side of the wall until the houses are sold, so why would we not push them to meet this obligation (if it is the case)

You've misunderstood my advice, if you believe that.

If the wall is shared responsibility (not T-marked) then the [/i]whole[/i] of the responsibility is shared. Certainly, if trees/shrubs damage the wall, it is the responsibility of whichever landowner's side they are growing on (and that's the case regardless of who 'owns' the fence or wall). Beyond that, maintenance costs and responsibilities (rebuilding, pointing etc.) are directly shared 50/50. It's not a matter of each landowner rebuilding his side of the wall independently... obviously, that would be a nonsensical impossibility.

I'm assuming there was no building beyond your house when your terrace was originally built? ISTR that the building previously occupying the site next door was a social club of much later construction? In which case, it may also be fair to assume that your boundary wall was built as part of your terrace, and belongs entirely to you. Back then, it was still commonplace to T-mark the boundaries, though, so it may be clear on the deeds (these days we tend to use shared boundaries unless there's a specific reason not to).

Your memory serves you correctly, the social club was built at a much later date. Ours is the first house in to the settlement.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

Equus said:

Actually, it's not. I design them - I don't build or site manage them (though obviously I've worked with those who do).

OK, your sector was what I was trying to get at. I wasn't implying that you're the old boy leaning on his shovel or the lad doing all the work.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

Equus said:

Wandering onto site on any decent-sized building project and offering bacon butties all round is very nearly as weird as doing the same thing at a haulage yard or something, if you happen to live next door to one of those.

Cut me a bit of slack here, I've acknowledged this point. From now on I'll only offer them tradesmen working on our property.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

kingBadger said:

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

Cut me a bit of slack here, I've acknowledged this point. From now on I'll only offer them tradesmen working on our property.

I hope it goes well for you though, difficult to not get stressed by these jobs. Also, just saying, but if you'd like to pop round with a bacon sarnie for me it would be much appreciated. Crispy-ish bacon but not overdone, buttered white bread and no crusts, ketchup. Oh and a cup of tea as well please. (-:

Well if you're ever passing give us a knock and I'll get the frying pan out. Just don't expect any of that red sugar sauce, bacon requires HP, you heathen

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

fourstardan said:

Who would honestly want to live on a plot of houses stacked in like that let alone next to it?

Have you seen the view from our house? 22 miles of open countryside, with a copse in the foreground having tawny and barn owls living within making lovely noises. It's not all bad.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

austinsmirk said:

I work in this sector. For a start if it’s few private individuals developing, they won’t care one bit about a wall. Repairing it cuts into profits

Worse case scenario they could go bust. I’ve a rental where that happened adjacent: village setting, beautiful countryside and they failed to assess scale no cost of ground works. Thus the house now has a view of something akin to a quarry.

But knackered wall repairs to a developer are very low down the list I’m afraid

In response to the highlighted. Whilst as a 'general' rule you may well be right, in this instance, as mentioned, we have Leylandii running the length of our garden, which will also be on the boundary of two neighbouring gardens. Accordingly I imagine they'd not want prospective buyers going in the garden to be faced with the sight of an expensive repair as soon as they moved in?

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

Equus said:

The quick, cheap answer to which might be to erect a 2,0m high panel fence, a few inches inside the boundary wall.

WTF possessed you to plant Leylandii along the boundary? fking hateful things...

Were already planted when we bought the house, albeit a lot smaller.

Edited by Fermit and Sexy Sarah on Sunday 13th June 11:16

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Is life really that dull for you?

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

Evoluzione said:

The Leylandii will eventually push the wall over.

That's something which TBH we hadn't considered. Maybe then we need to give some thought, which is more important to us, the wall, or the hedgerow. Having 3 dogs we need some sort of hard barrier.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

roscopervis said:

The Party Wall Act etc. 1996 may very well be relevant here too. Please see the attached link:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

Thanks for posting this up, I'll save it and we'll have a read through.