Should older people give up their family homes?

[Type R Tom]

I know this won’t go down well with many, but the recent property price jump has seen a decent pay rise I got recently disappear in the space of a few months. In my area what would be regarded as the next step on the ladder from a starter home is now £500k+. Those that are more affordable then require £100k of work as many haven’t been decorated in decades.

Many in my area are also dead against new developments which often have bigger detached places, these tend to be older people and to me most likely to be living in a larger family home probably with children my age who have long since moved out.

My issue is that if we can’t build more houses to decrease demand for larger family home, thereby freeing up starter homes, is it right that older couples live in big 4 bed places alone, sometimes neglecting them for years when they could downgrade.

If I wanted I could be mortgage free before 50 staying here and enjoying lots of holidays and meals out. As a “professional” I kind of always imagined the typical PH house but as the months go by it gets less and less likely and the potential for a bigger family. I also imagined moving out to another couple starting their life together moving in.

It’s probably an over simplistic view and not fair on people who have worked hard for their home but also many have made money from nothing other than time and luck. I’ve got no idea how to solve it.

[Type R Tom]

BritishBlitz87 said:

They'll all die eventually and then the next lot will move in. It'll just take longer than usual.

If you don't have an inheritance you're screwed in the south east, I can see the future structure of the haves and have nots formed entirely on the basis of whether your family managed to get on the property ladder. Aside from housing costs everything else is cheaper than ever.

Yep and the people who inherit want to max the price out to help them progress.

What isn't helping the SE (and has been the same for years) is people moving out of London, especially now WFH is more acceptable. Flat in zone 3 is the same as a big family home.

[Type R Tom]

BlackWidow13 said:

When you say “give up” do you mean “sell and vacate” or “give away”?

If the former, how is that going to help you? From what you say you won’t be able to afford the market price of these big houses.

If the latter, hahahahahhaha. Because there will then be someone worse off than you who will be asking you to give away your house.

It sounds like you’re in an area which has outstripped your income. Either you sit tight and enjoy watching your property value rise, or you move to a different area where you can buy a bigger house for less money. It’s not rocket science.

So what happens to first time buyers? fk em? My point is I'm sitting on a starter home when by now I should have moved on. How do you solve without moving 100s of miles away which isn't really viable with work.

[Type R Tom]

BlackWidow13 said:

Type R Tom said:

So what happens to first time buyers? fk em? My point is I'm sitting on a starter home when by now I should have moved on. How do you solve without moving 100s of miles away which isn't really viable with work.

You sound a bit entitled TBH.

If you think so, that's your prerogative. You sound like someone who is probably profiting of the status quo and doesn't want things to change.

[Type R Tom]

Chainsaw Rebuild said:

OP imagine the boot was on the other foot: you have got yourself and your wife into the position where you are nicely retired, the kids have left and you now have a couple of guest rooms. Your grandkids can come to stay anytime you like, as can your friends. You could even take in a lodger to boost your income.

Then some guy who wants a bigger house but can’t afford it ways you have to sell so he can put his family in your house.

Yep, I completely except that. But then is it fair for you to object to a new build estate built near you with exactly those types of homes?

This is what is happening around my way.

I also have a slight issue with the afford bit, we all know that the reason the houses aren't affordable is nothing to do with anything they did.

[Type R Tom]

phazed said:

Just reduce the population and the problem is solved. I don’t know why anyone hasn’t thought of this before

Ironically, for is this is the case, can't have a bigger family as don't have the space

[Type R Tom]

eldar said:

Type R Tom said:

BlackWidow13 said:

When you say “give up” do you mean “sell and vacate” or “give away”?

If the former, how is that going to help you? From what you say you won’t be able to afford the market price of these big houses.

If the latter, hahahahahhaha. Because there will then be someone worse off than you who will be asking you to give away your house.

It sounds like you’re in an area which has outstripped your income. Either you sit tight and enjoy watching your property value rise, or you move to a different area where you can buy a bigger house for less money. It’s not rocket science.

So what happens to first time buyers? fk em? My point is I'm sitting on a starter home when by now I should have moved on. How do you solve without moving 100s of miles away which isn't really viable with work.

You want someone to give you a bigger house? Shouldn't it go to a homeless, but bigger, family than yours?

Who said anything about give? My point is there needs to be a way to make the next run of the ladder more affordable, so we built lots more bigger houses and free up existing starter homes.

[Type R Tom]

blueg33 said:

Type R Tom said:

So what happens to first time buyers? fk em? My point is I'm sitting on a starter home when by now I should have moved on. How do you solve without moving 100s of miles away which isn't really viable with work.

Some people will always have more than others, that is a fact of life, a fact of human nature.

IMO its up to the individual to better themselves and prosper, not to expect to be "handed stuff on a plate"

I have mates who have stunning houses, great cars etc. They have all made personal sacrifice and taken financial risk. They have all been better at it than me. Do I expect them to give me their stuff ? - of course not. Why do you feel you are entitled to the results of someone elses risk and effort?

The best way to combat the green eyed monster is to rely on yourself not expect charity

Again, who said anything about give? If we can't build new larger family homes (blocking applications) then we don't free up starter homes for kids

[Type R Tom]

Some interesting points of view and it seems like the majority feel the current situation is ok as it is.

To be honest I started this thread out of frustration seeing the constant fight against new builds by groups of people who likely have their home, don’t want more traffic around them etc and want to pull the ladder up protecting their interests. This along with a friend in her late 20s looking at what I have and knowing it will be near impossible for her to ever manage it and feeling sorry for her.

Maybe I didn’t explain myself very well but there are a couple of people who I think get where I’m coming from. Seems like I’m wrong for thinking something, what ever it may be, needs to change

[Type R Tom]

okgo said:

I'd imagine its responsible for a large percentage of the rises in places like Bristol, Brighton, Winchester just to name a few. It originates here I feel, when people realise going from flat to house is not an option due to there not being the 'next step' house, they take their cash to any and all of the above and more and drive the prices up there. Perpetuating the issue.

Anyway, with OP living in Kent, you can literally still buy houses for tiny amounts of money there relative to what they cost in most other home counties, and if you're not tied to a commute or major city, which his work wouldn't be (I think) then its a case of cutting your cloth.

BTW - I don't work on the roads

[Type R Tom]

okgo said:

Type R Tom said:

Some interesting points of view and it seems like the majority feel the current situation is ok as it is.

To be honest I started this thread out of frustration seeing the constant fight against new builds by groups of people who likely have their home, don’t want more traffic around them etc and want to pull the ladder up protecting their interests. This along with a friend in her late 20s looking at what I have and knowing it will be near impossible for her to ever manage it and feeling sorry for her.

Maybe I didn’t explain myself very well but there are a couple of people who I think get where I’m coming from. Seems like I’m wrong for thinking something, what ever it may be, needs to change

If I bought you a nice house in the country tomorrow with nice views, you'd be that person objecting to some awful toy town too, anyone pretending they wouldn't is deluded IMO.

I really hope I wouldn't become that person, I deal with NIMBY all the time and I would hate to become something I despise.

[Type R Tom]

gfreeman said:

I do chuckle at this... I am now just turned 70 - I wonder what OP considers old??

When I first moved out of my parents house in 1973 I saved every penny I had, took on two part time jobs as well as my main employment and saved for nearly 3 years living like a hermit until my girlfriend and I had enough for a deposit on a new starter home 65 miles away from work.

The mortgage was more than my salary. We had no furniture, no carpets, no curtains, no washing machine, no fridge, no television, a rusty heap of a car and without my girlfriend working we would have starved.

We went to auctions, junk shops and scoured the local paper for bargain carpets etc. Everything was second hand or built myself.

As a birthday gift we gave our neighbour two carpet samples to stick to his feet so it would feel like fitted carpet - we could hear him clomping about in his place through the walls - in the same position as us... as were a lot of my friends doing the same or very similar.

I was lucky working in construction as I could claim my travel expenses (thank god) but still had to travel for 3 hours a day there and back.

Fast forward years and years of bloody hard work and we now live in a million+ house (via numerous doer uppers) and have a couple of Porsches in the four bay garage.

No whinging millenial is going to take my gaff - give up your BMW/Type R/mobile phone/HDTV/alcohol/ for a few years. work your arse off then come back and have a moan...

Post like this make me laugh too, who would have thought that the four Yorkshire men sketch would still be relevant today.

I bet your parents probably thought you had it too easy too and I would be willing to bet if you were starting off in constriction today, you would be highly unlikely to end up where you are now in 40 years, regardless of effort.

[Type R Tom]

BlackWidow13 said:

Type R Tom said:

gfreeman said:

I do chuckle at this... I am now just turned 70 - I wonder what OP considers old??

When I first moved out of my parents house in 1973 I saved every penny I had, took on two part time jobs as well as my main employment and saved for nearly 3 years living like a hermit until my girlfriend and I had enough for a deposit on a new starter home 65 miles away from work.

The mortgage was more than my salary. We had no furniture, no carpets, no curtains, no washing machine, no fridge, no television, a rusty heap of a car and without my girlfriend working we would have starved.

We went to auctions, junk shops and scoured the local paper for bargain carpets etc. Everything was second hand or built myself.

As a birthday gift we gave our neighbour two carpet samples to stick to his feet so it would feel like fitted carpet - we could hear him clomping about in his place through the walls - in the same position as us... as were a lot of my friends doing the same or very similar.

I was lucky working in construction as I could claim my travel expenses (thank god) but still had to travel for 3 hours a day there and back.

Fast forward years and years of bloody hard work and we now live in a million+ house (via numerous doer uppers) and have a couple of Porsches in the four bay garage.

No whinging millenial is going to take my gaff - give up your BMW/Type R/mobile phone/HDTV/alcohol/ for a few years. work your arse off then come back and have a moan...

Post like this make me laugh too, who would have thought that the four Yorkshire men sketch would still be relevant today.

I bet your parents probably thought you had it too easy too and I would be willing to bet if you were starting off in constriction today, you would be highly unlikely to end up where you are now in 40 years, regardless of effort.

I think you have missed the point of the post. It’s not not just graft. It’s a willingness to take risk - to stretch yourself and bet on your future performance pulling you through.

Of course there is an element of that but do the maths, there is no way a 22 year old construction worked today could save in 3 years the deposit for a house while renting and then get a massive mortgage and do up a place. It's just not possible.

[Type R Tom]

Sheets Tabuer said:

Around here anything vaguely in the range of a BTLer gets snapped up in seconds which creates problems of it's own. Firstly it drives up the prices of cheaper homes younger people would traditionally go after and it also has the knock on effect of increasing prices further up the ladder.

Perhaps that should be looked at rather than trying to rob an old couple of their life's work.

That happens quite often in Uni towns, 4 bed places that should be family homes become 5 bed HMO at £400 per room per month.

[Type R Tom]

jimPH said:

Megaflow said:

jimPH said:

Megaflow said:

Type R Tom said:

BlackWidow13 said:

When you say “give up” do you mean “sell and vacate” or “give away”?

If the former, how is that going to help you? From what you say you won’t be able to afford the market price of these big houses.

If the latter, hahahahahhaha. Because there will then be someone worse off than you who will be asking you to give away your house.

It sounds like you’re in an area which has outstripped your income. Either you sit tight and enjoy watching your property value rise, or you move to a different area where you can buy a bigger house for less money. It’s not rocket science.

So what happens to first time buyers? fk em? My point is I'm sitting on a starter home when by now I should have moved on. How do you solve without moving 100s of miles away which isn't really viable with work.

So just to clarify, because you can’t afford to move up from a starter home, you think somebody should give you their larger home just because the kids have moved out?

If that is correct, you could spin that another way, you can afford to rent, so why shouldn’t you give up your starter home for a homeless person?

I’m quite sure you are not so keen on that idea!

I don't think he's saying that at all. Keep reading what you want to read though.

What else is he saying with a thread title of: SHOULD OLDER PEOPLE GIVE UP THEIR FAMILY HOMES?

Be didn't say to HIM though. Keep filling in the gaps though, it'll soon read how you want it too.

To be honest, I put that as an attention grabbing headline, it clearly worked but thought it would be obvious I wasn't talking in the literal sense.

[Type R Tom]

i4got said:

LeadFarmer said:

i4got said:

My current house was 5 x my salary at the time I bought it in 2007. I'm still in the same job as I was when I bought it, and my wages have increased each year but my house is now valued at nearly 10 x my salary.

I don't think anyone is disputing that house prices have gone up relative to salary. The point I'm making is that with the reduction in interest rates, the affordability has not risen in line with this. Which is why I guess mortgages are now calculated on affordability rather than salary multiples.

I agree its doesn't help in getting together the deposit.

Just a quick bit of maths, looks like if you started saving 5 years ago for a 15% deposit on the average uk property, you needed to put away £532 a month, today you would need to be saving £664. Your deposit jumped by £8k in 5 years.

[Type R Tom]

blueg33 said:

Deposit was always a struggle. Our rent in 1988 was a bit more than our first mortgage payments. For a while to help get a deposit together, I did two jobs. I started the first job at 3am answering the phones for BT direct marketing, finished at 3, had 4 hours break and went to work behind a bar in the evening. As a student, I laboured on building sites which enabled me to save up for a deposit.

My first house cost £52,000 my deposit was £8,000 saved by me and Mrs B. The mortgage was 4 x joint income, interest only and cost about £550 a month.

Put that into an inflation calculator and thats £1437 per month. According to various online calculators, a £300k mortgage fixed at 3.5% would be £875 per month today.

ie. For me at least it would be easier now.

However, I recognise that the young of today have more cost. We didn't have to fund mobile phones, buy laptops, printers etc.

I think from what you've said, you probably bought at the worst time in recent history.

[Type R Tom]

NMNeil said:

Type R Tom said:

So what happens to first time buyers? fk em? My point is I'm sitting on a starter home when by now I should have moved on. How do you solve without moving 100s of miles away which isn't really viable with work.

I see from your bio that you own both a BMW and a Volvo.
Which one will you be giving to a needy family who only have one very small car?

I would give them both up tomorrow if I could buy a Cebera/NSX/R34 for what they cost about 10-15 years ago but those prices are out of reach now too.

BTW - at no point has anyone said, "give away"

Edited by Type R Tom on Friday 5th November 16:31

[Type R Tom]

BlackWidow13 said:

Type R Tom said:

I would give them both up tomorrow if I could buy a Cebera/NSX/R34 for what they cost about 10-15 years ago but those prices are out of reach now too.

BTW - at no point has anyone said, "give away"

Edited by Type R Tom on Friday 5th November 16:31

Thread title. “Give up”.

We've been over this, I guess you take newspaper headlines at completely face value too and get all frothy.

[Type R Tom]

BlackWidow13 said:

Type R Tom said:

We've been over this, I guess you take newspaper headlines at completely face value too and get all frothy.

You mean “I’ve tried to talk my way out of that”.

I’m not the one getting “frothy” about house prices.

No, something far less important, a title.