Mysterious water
Discussion
So...neighbour is saying that there is water in his garden and he thinks it is draining from ours. There is indeed water in his garden, a fair bit upon inspection, enough to be a decent puddle along our joining garden wall.
Our yard is higher than his, probably a couple of inches, and concrete, and the reason he thinks the water comes from ours is because when it rains, puddles to form in the centre of ours as the person laying the concrete (well before our time here) clearly didn't have a level that day, so it bows in the middle forming puddles. So he thinks because our yard has poor drainage the water in his yard must be from ours. I do understand his theory, but:
Some pictures below. His is the yard with the furniture (1st pic), ours is the grotty yard that needs a total overhaul (2nd pic). Another interesting thing, which I think the pics show, is the wall looks very damp (3rd pic), both sides, in the section where the water is in his yard. Clearly this is an outdoor stone wall, so it's obviously going to be damp, but can rising damp cause that sort of water pooling?
Thoughts appreciated!
Our yard is higher than his, probably a couple of inches, and concrete, and the reason he thinks the water comes from ours is because when it rains, puddles to form in the centre of ours as the person laying the concrete (well before our time here) clearly didn't have a level that day, so it bows in the middle forming puddles. So he thinks because our yard has poor drainage the water in his yard must be from ours. I do understand his theory, but:
- It puddles in the middle of our yard when it rains a lot, not along the wall.
- The day I went round to his to check the water situation, it hadn't rained for days, our yard was completely dry, his yard was completely dry, apart from this section along the wall which had enough water to look like he'd just overwatered all his plants with a hosepipe.
Some pictures below. His is the yard with the furniture (1st pic), ours is the grotty yard that needs a total overhaul (2nd pic). Another interesting thing, which I think the pics show, is the wall looks very damp (3rd pic), both sides, in the section where the water is in his yard. Clearly this is an outdoor stone wall, so it's obviously going to be damp, but can rising damp cause that sort of water pooling?
Thoughts appreciated!
Edited by jan8p on Thursday 18th November 19:57
Thanks! We have a good relationship with him (for now 
), so I said it was too much to be drainage from our garden but I'd go away and ask some folk to pacify him, as he was adamant it can't possibly be his yard as he had it redone recently and obviously his drainage is perfect. Clearly not the case as that is standing water and does not drain off toward the waste drain as it should even if it were from our garden.
), so I said it was too much to be drainage from our garden but I'd go away and ask some folk to pacify him, as he was adamant it can't possibly be his yard as he had it redone recently and obviously his drainage is perfect. Clearly not the case as that is standing water and does not drain off toward the waste drain as it should even if it were from our garden.Murph7355 said:
Tend to agree with the above.
Might not hurt for you to look at the raised beds you've installed too. How new are these in relation to the issues he's having?
Raised beds are from well before our time, so probably 10+ years ago. His garden repaved in the last few years.Might not hurt for you to look at the raised beds you've installed too. How new are these in relation to the issues he's having?
Bit of an update for this one....so after letting him know I really don't think it's drainage, he's now had an "expert" visit who, by the sounds of it, has also said its too much water to be surface water draining from us. I can only assume he mentioned leaking pipe though, as now the neighbour has changed his tune and he now thinks its a leaking pipe from our side draining over to his patio.
When I first spoke to him about this I explicitly asked if it's happened before, and he said yes, but usually its only over winter......must be an intermittent burst water main then.
Joking aside, our water main comes into our kitchen on the other side of the yard, opposite the wall. So if there is a leak, there's zero evidence of it in our yard, there's holes in the concrete where you'd think it would appear. Only way to know for sure is to grab a sledge hammer and break away the concrete, I'm not sure if this is what he's expecting me to do as part of my investigation
When I first spoke to him about this I explicitly asked if it's happened before, and he said yes, but usually its only over winter......must be an intermittent burst water main then.
Joking aside, our water main comes into our kitchen on the other side of the yard, opposite the wall. So if there is a leak, there's zero evidence of it in our yard, there's holes in the concrete where you'd think it would appear. Only way to know for sure is to grab a sledge hammer and break away the concrete, I'm not sure if this is what he's expecting me to do as part of my investigation
Thanks everyone. These houses have been here over 100 years, so god knows what is under the yards, be it water, drains, clay, who knows.
I'll tell him to contact the water board if he's that bothered and see if they can help him trace it, but there's zero signs of any leaking pipes in my yard, and my concrete has loads of holes/cracks it could come up through which I would expect if the leak was here.
I'll tell him to contact the water board if he's that bothered and see if they can help him trace it, but there's zero signs of any leaking pipes in my yard, and my concrete has loads of holes/cracks it could come up through which I would expect if the leak was here.
Moss isn't as bad as it looks, it dries pretty quickly. It is getting paved next year.
Spoke to the water board who said they can check, but it's the neighbour who should arrange it as the water is in his garden. Told him that and he's arranged for them to come out tomorrow.
I can't see it being a mains water leak in our yard, as I imagine you'd see the water pooling through the cracks/holes in our concrete. Hopefully it's just surface water, in which case we get to tell him to sort it out himself!
Spoke to the water board who said they can check, but it's the neighbour who should arrange it as the water is in his garden. Told him that and he's arranged for them to come out tomorrow.
I can't see it being a mains water leak in our yard, as I imagine you'd see the water pooling through the cracks/holes in our concrete. Hopefully it's just surface water, in which case we get to tell him to sort it out himself!
So....an update! Not great news, unfortunately.
Water board have been out and done their thing, and they've pinpointed it to a leak on our property. They've helped as much as they can but the rest is out of their remit they say. The chap said from listening to it, it sounds like it is in the rear yard, close to an old chamber that houses an ancient, original stop cock for "something" that probably isn't used anymore. He can't turn it as it's totally knackered. He said if it was him he'd start the search there.
Had a local contractor out to do some initial exploratory work:
After digging out around the chamber, there was nothing, so they chased along the pipe toward the house, and have dug down the wall where they can see the original lead pipe disappearing under the wall, and water flowing around finding a gap in the wall to come out into the yard. They say this pipe has a few Ts, one of which disappears off down the yard toward some more houses, and is live, so may feed them. Another T goes off into my kitchen to the stop cock.
Completely by coincidence, a tap broke in the bathroom last night, and when I had the water off to fix it, I released the stop cock in the kitchen only turns off some of the water in the house. Hot water (combi) still flows, as does one of the toilets and one of the cold taps. Turning the water off in the street shuts off everything. So there must be another T under the house somewhere which goes off to another location in the house and feeds some of the taps/boiler.
This is a house from the late 1800s with original lead pipes it seems, so its a total mess.
Anyway, long and short of it is the leak is under the house somewhere. Anybody want to start some crowd funding?
Water board have been out and done their thing, and they've pinpointed it to a leak on our property. They've helped as much as they can but the rest is out of their remit they say. The chap said from listening to it, it sounds like it is in the rear yard, close to an old chamber that houses an ancient, original stop cock for "something" that probably isn't used anymore. He can't turn it as it's totally knackered. He said if it was him he'd start the search there.
Had a local contractor out to do some initial exploratory work:
After digging out around the chamber, there was nothing, so they chased along the pipe toward the house, and have dug down the wall where they can see the original lead pipe disappearing under the wall, and water flowing around finding a gap in the wall to come out into the yard. They say this pipe has a few Ts, one of which disappears off down the yard toward some more houses, and is live, so may feed them. Another T goes off into my kitchen to the stop cock.
Completely by coincidence, a tap broke in the bathroom last night, and when I had the water off to fix it, I released the stop cock in the kitchen only turns off some of the water in the house. Hot water (combi) still flows, as does one of the toilets and one of the cold taps. Turning the water off in the street shuts off everything. So there must be another T under the house somewhere which goes off to another location in the house and feeds some of the taps/boiler.
This is a house from the late 1800s with original lead pipes it seems, so its a total mess.
Anyway, long and short of it is the leak is under the house somewhere. Anybody want to start some crowd funding?
So, leak is definitely under the house somewhere.
Options are:
1) Remove the floor in the living room and dining room and chase the leak around, no chance
2) Just replace the lead pipe to the kitchen and then get a plumber to join the two forks of my internal plumbing together
Option #2 is around about £1k ballpark, sounds reasonable to me, no crowdfunding required. Tell you what, if anyone needs any external water work doing in the North East, contact Hydrosure, they have been absolutely spot on so far.
Interesting point around that live spur going off down the yard. It could be going to where an old outdoor toilet used to be, or it could be going off out the yard serving a house directly behind. That house is also the only house in that street that has no "new" plastic water utility cover in the pavement. Think I may turn my water off in the street and see if he has no water. Watch this space.
Options are:
1) Remove the floor in the living room and dining room and chase the leak around, no chance
2) Just replace the lead pipe to the kitchen and then get a plumber to join the two forks of my internal plumbing together
Option #2 is around about £1k ballpark, sounds reasonable to me, no crowdfunding required. Tell you what, if anyone needs any external water work doing in the North East, contact Hydrosure, they have been absolutely spot on so far.
Interesting point around that live spur going off down the yard. It could be going to where an old outdoor toilet used to be, or it could be going off out the yard serving a house directly behind. That house is also the only house in that street that has no "new" plastic water utility cover in the pavement. Think I may turn my water off in the street and see if he has no water. Watch this space.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yep, they said they would cover "exploratory work" to find the leak, but not to fix it. Given its a 120 year old lead pipe, I'm not going to have my floor ripped up unnecessarily even if they are paying the bill.For ~£1k for a new supply I doubt it's worth the agro or increased premiums.
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
If the outgoing pipe is feeding another property, and you do go down the route of having a new main incoming pipe installed, then you could connect the outgoing pipe from a known good point to the main. As a bonus, a new pipe will probably give you better water pressure.
From what everyone has said, including the water board man, I’m only responsible for repairing my supply. If I repair it and my supply happened to be shared with someone else, then when their water goes off it’s on the water board to resupply them, and not through my property!Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff