Kitchens - cheap vs expensive

[Cascade360]

We are looking to have a kitchen fitted in our first house. First time I have ever bought a kitchen so don't really know what I'm doing.

First, we got a high level pre-design quote from John Lewis which estimated 14 to 18k which included cabinetry but which excluded appliances.

Second, we got a full design / quote from Magnet for their top end cabinets (Premium ID3) and one of their higher end kitchen ranges (Dunham), which in fairness was a really nice kitchen. It came in at a whopping 24k including appliances and worktops - and that apparently included a 50% discount on the cabinetry!!!

Next, we did our own design on DIY Kitchens based on the Magnet design. First, their solid timber Linwood range - which came in at around 12.5k including worktops (Dekton) but excluding appliances. Second, the Malton range - 22mm foil wrapped MDF, and significantly cheaper - looks like it would come in around half of the Linwood (with laminate over Dekton). Their prices are going up 10% on 28 February.

We also wandered around a Wren showroom and didn't like any of their kitchens.

Our present view is that DIY Kitchens seems the best value plus avoids the frustrating salesmen of the likes of Magnet and Wren. However, was wondering if it was worth going for the solid timber range with Dekton worktops over the cheaper MDF range with laminate worktops? Our house is a three bed end terrace in an unfashionable London suburb which we will probably be in for another ten years maximum. We will need to include appliances, flooring (including levelling), plastering, electrics, fitting, so suspect we will be another 10k on top of the kitchen price at least, and are getting married next year, so saving a few quid on the kitchen itself would be quite helpful, but at the end of the day if an extra 6k or so gets us a much better kitchen it seems a no brainer.

Cheers

Edited by Cascade360 on Monday 21st February 10:51

[Cascade360]

It's a galley kitchen of 11.4m2 and a utility of 6.85 m2.

[Cascade360]

Muzzer79 said:

I have a DIY Kitchens kitchen, the quality of the cabinets, etc are very good.

My recommendation is to get the best kitchen fitter you can afford and then budget your kitchen cabinetry and worktops after that.

A good fitter can make a mediocre kitchen look great but a mediocre fitter can make a great kitchen look poor.

Which range did you go for? I suppose one main question is whether the DIY Kitchens solid timber range is worth the extra over their cheaper MDF ranges.

[Cascade360]

Mark Asread said:

Do any of the quotes include fitting? Are you comparing like for like?

No, none of the quotes include fitting. We intend to use a carpenter who is a relative to do the fitting and some broader building work.

The John Lewis quote was very high-level, so not really like for like. We initially re-created the Magnet design on the DIY Kitchens planner as closely as possible and it was coming in about half price (though without appliances, so knock a couple of grand off for that) - despite appearing prima facie to be the better kitchen, as it was solid timber rather than MDF. The DIY MDF kitchen is probably about a third of the Magnet kitchen (though haven't priced it out exactly like for like yet) ...

My favourite was the 150mm wall wine rack - something like 685 RRP discounted to 342 for Magnet, and 64 on DIY Kitchens ...

[Cascade360]

LocoBlade said:

Having quotes with Dekton and laminate seems a slightly odd selection as one is probably the most expensive worktop surfaces and the other the cheapest. If you prefer the solid stone look you may find you can save a fair amount on the Dekton prices by going for something like Quartz instead. It's still a solid stone surface like Dekton, they each have their benefits/drawbacks that may decide one for you if for example you absolutely must have the ability to put a red hot pan straight onto a worktop then Quartz is probably not the best option (nor is laminate), but a mid range Quartz will probably be best part of half the price of Dekton.

Also you can have cheap cabinets and the most expensive worktop or vice versa if you want, one doesn't predetermine the other. I don't think DIY Kitchens force you one way or other depending on which cabinet range you pick but there's no requirement to buy the worktops from DIY kitchens, you may well find you can get it cheaper from a local worktop supplier/fitter anyway as companies like DIY Kitchens just farm it out to a contractor anyway so there's middle man mark up being taken.

You are right, it is basically our ideal design versus the cheapest design. I think on DIY Kitchens the carcasses are basically the same for all kitchens and it is the doors you are paying more or less for.

Playing about with the configurator, can get the cheaper doors (19mm painted MDF) with a mid range Quartz worktop for a decent chunk less than 10 grand, which might be the way to go.

I read on another thread on here that due to their volume discounts DIY isn't particularly expensive for worktops, but agreed worth looking at some smaller local suppliers.

We should really get out to the DIY Kitchen showroom and have a prod about, though their prices go up 10% at midnight on the 28th and we can't get out before then so tempted to bite the bullet and crack on in advance of that ...

[Cascade360]

Got chased by the Magnet salesman this evening. He didn't seem to have an answer as to why a Magnet kitchen is twice the price of a DIY Kitchens kitchen. He avoided the question of why his wine rack was 685 down to 342 whereas DIY Kitchens was 64 He tried to argue his come fully built (so do DIY), his was tall units (so was DIY) ... tbh didn't sound like he had ever heard of DIY Kitchens.

Anyway I told him unless he could move materially he won't be getting our business and he asked to see the DIY Kitchens quote. So I've sent it to him and let's see what he comes up with ...

Played about with the quote and with the mid range DIY Kitchens doors (19mm painted MDF) and a mid-range Quartz worktop got the kitchen down to around 10k (without appliances or splashbacks) which seems quite good.

p.s. amazing how expensive a radius feature end is! Added like 5 of them then realised they were over 100 quid each ...

Edited by Cascade360 on Monday 21st February 19:40

[Cascade360]

singlecoil said:

My answer will be from the perspective of a small volume kitchen maker, rather than a buyer.

I believe that what my customers (and those of the other makers on PH) are looking for is a personal service and a quality build. They don't want to have to design the kitchen themselves, they don't want it to be made of melamine faced chipboard and they will often need to have the units made to specific, non-standard sizes in order to fit the space they have and to provide symmetry and balance. And they don't want to have to pay fancypants prices.

My assumption is that bespoke, small volume manufacturers will be materially more expensive than the big kitchen firms. Is this not the case?

[Cascade360]

cptsideways said:

If its made of Chipboard its garbage, just expensive garbage.

You could probably employ a proper cabinet maker for a couple of months to build you some beautiful woodwork for the same price as some of the shiny chipboard junk everyone seems to love. (My partner included)

Appliances are dirt cheap in comparison.

I'm fairly sure I could not, but if you could let me know who would make me a bespoke hardwood kitchen with the same number of units for 10k I'm all ears.

[Cascade360]

Super interesting thread but still not sure if it is worth going for DIY Kitchens MDF wrapped line or "solid wood" line 😂 Certainly seem bespoke is beyond what i am likely to be willing to pay.

[Cascade360]

Rather than creating a new thread, could anyone critique this kitchen layout? My main concern is that the tall double oven unit might not work there, but Magnet wanted to put it with the fridge freezer in the alcove which I think would be a total pain as so far away from work tops.

There is an integrated dishwasher in the long run, beside the sink. There are various drawer units and pull out units in the base units. The tall unit beside the tall unit that is open with the wirework is the integrated fridge freezer. The furthest right wall unit in the long run would house our boiler. There is no seating, but intention would be a small table across from fridge - our dining table is in the next room so would be where we would sit mostly. Ignore the colours, they are miles off.

Norton (20mm solid wood) versus Stanbury (19mm painted MDF) works out at an extra grand for utility + kitchen so minded to go for that. Even Norton works out at about 60% of the cost of the 19mm painted MDF kitchen units from Magnet! The chap never came back to me when I asked him to try and get his price a bit closer ...











Also, two other things I am pondering:

(1) Dekton v Quartz? It is about 50% / 900 quid or so more for Dekton.
(2) DIY Kitchen handles (3 quid a handle) or go for fancy handles (say 15 to 20 quid a handle) given these are what are touched regularly? Would this give a decent uplift in perceived quality for 600/700 quid?

Edited by Cascade360 on Monday 7th March 18:10

Edited by Cascade360 on Monday 7th March 18:15

[Cascade360]

grumbledoak said:

I don't fancy the full height unit with the ovens beside the doorway. I think I would walk a shoulder into it five or six times a day. Where does it lead?

And where does the bin go?

(I am going through this at present).

The doorway goes through to the utility, and the current intention is to remove the door and leave an archway, so it is almost like an extension of the kitchen.

I'm minded to agree that it is not ideal there, but it seems it is either there or over next to the fridge miles from a worktop. The sink and dishwasher ideally stay roughly where they are for plumbing purposes, the boiler is at the other end of that run, and it cannot go next to the hob as apparently they need to be a set distance away from each other.

[Cascade360]

RevHappy said:

Blimey no wonder they’ve not called you back that’s a shambles of a plan. Ok the poor buggers at magnet are treated like lab rats on the clock but that’s plan lazy. Do you really want a shaker style door, flat will be way better value. Quartz is fine for 95% of people and on a 20mm top you’ll see the veins on the front edge which you won’t get on Dekton. It’s big advantage is heat 200+, but use a trivet on quartz and you’ll be fine. Is there a table going into that dead space, if not stick the fridge and larder that side so it flows with the rest of the kitchen. Do you use the microwave that much? If not stick a cheap on inside a unit or in the utility, then put in two single ovens, 1 1/2 ovens are a awful product . Don’t pick handles online, buy one as a sample, feel the weight and how easy they scratch.

The Magnet design was basically that, except the tall larder unit was the fridge freezer and the fridge freezer was the double oven. There was then a glazed wall unit / drawer base unit where the double oven currently is It would seem odd to me to have the fridge and larder across from the alcove, and then have the alcove empty? The idea was to put a table in the empty space. Not sure how else to layout the room though ... that seems to be the only two places to put the tall oven unit. We also intend to have more cupboards and worktop space in the utility.

The fridge and larder won't fit to the left of the doorway on the other side.

Noted on Quartz and ovens.

Edited by Cascade360 on Monday 7th March 18:38

[Cascade360]

RevHappy said:

Ok this is only basic stuff, I’m amazed you can do this stuff on an iPhone.

Where is the double oven in your plan?

Just playing about with the DIY Kitchens planner and I think fitting in corner units to allow units under the sink, given the position of the window on that wall, and trying to keep some symmetry etc, is pretty challenging.

Also, a table on the edge of the alcove seems a bit odd?

[Cascade360]

dmsims said:

Why have they left blank wall underneath the window?

I think it is the window and boiler makes it challenging to put stuff under it.

[Cascade360]

dmsims said:

Huh ?

I mean in terms of not being able to put wall units along the wall, or have a corner wall unit, which means the wall units at the end are a bit stranded and difficult to get into.

Just spent thirty minutes trying to design it like that and the dimensions also make fitting the standard units in without gaps a bit challenging.

I'm sure a kitchen designer cleverer than me could find a solution though ...

[Cascade360]

This is the result of playing about for a sink under the window.

The wine rack would be a wine fridge.

The corner units are both carousels. Trying to fit them in with corner posts was a pain, just either not enough or too much space.

I think it looks pretty cramped to be honest, but my better half seems to prefer it to the original design ...

[Cascade360]

Another one which I much prefer.

Still think that putting fridge and pantry unit in alcove is better than across from it and leaving alcove empty, though what about booth seating hmmmm

Edited by Cascade360 on Monday 7th March 21:35

[Cascade360]

RevHappy said:

There’s a boiler?

To the left of the window, will go in first wall unit.

My better half agrees with you and really likes this layout



Agreed the belfast sink is a bit of a pain

[Cascade360]

RevHappy said:

Thanks. It’s a bit of fun that makes use of the space and inexpensive to do. Plus it gets the tall units to integrate more with the rest of the kitchen.

Where would you buy a table like that? Cant find one!

[Cascade360]

Two single ovens one on top of each other vs double oven vs single oven and oven/combi micro on top of each other - thoughts?