Fruit and veg growers of 2023

[Evoluzione]

As the bulbs poke through and another seed catalogue falls through the letterbox I realise it's time for this years thread to start
Any interesting plans for this year?
Is UTH going to capitalise on his new found tomato growing knowledge for a bumper crop?
What will the weather favour?

I'm currently trying Winter veg. The idea is you start them off late Summer so they get strong enough to stand Winter, maybe grow a bit during, but get into their stride in Spring for an early crop. Some Normal Varieties are hardy enough to make it through, some plants have to be special Winter Versions though.
You can do it outside or under glass, i've found outside to be a waste of time. It's just too harsh, not only the cold, but high winds and heavy rain either kill them off or they just sit and do nothing.
If you try it in a greenhouse/polytunnel then you need to think about what will happen if/when the spaces is needed for your Summer plants as there will be an overlap. I've turned over some permanent space to them and also planted some which can be pulled outside or transplanted to carry on growing in Spring.

NV of beet spinach and Spring onions have survived:


WV onion sets:

I'll drag these outside when the weather is better to grow. Sadly they don't see the sun there which has slowed them a bit, but they're doing ok.
I don't know what those containers were supposed to be originally, maybe lids for something? I picked them up cheap on FBM.
The outside ones just look pathetic, even though they have barely any top growth the wind has rocked them loose in the ground.


Here we have NV broccoli and beetroot, W onions, garlic Kale and some cauliflower. The Cauliflower was crap although the seeds arrived about a month after I ordered them so they didn't get very big, they started to die off even before the temps got to zero


For reference it's been down to -7 here. The Broccoli flagged and looked sick at repeated nights of that, but did actually recover and even has some heads on it:



W lettuce is looking lush:

I'll grow that again.

You can actually harvest some stuff over Winter by plucking bits off to eat, but for that you need a lot of plants to make one meal.

Plans for this year

This is the initial long list, I've been a bit overly optimistic so will maybe not get round to growing them all:

Sweetcorn 'Pot of gold' Dwarf variety supposedly good for containers and exposed locations.
Florence fennel
Marigold
Cavaloro Nero kale
Celeriac
Toms, various and cherry types
Cucumber (mini)
Self blanching celery
Early and late carrots. Try sweet candle and Amsterdam forcing
Swede
Sprouts
Broccoli
Red cabbage
Thyme
Kohl
Cape gooseberry
Potato
Peas?
Parsnip
Cabbage
Pak choi?
Asparagus?


Fruit:
Raspberry
Blackberry Waldo
Blueberry
Nectarella
Grape vine in PT?

I'm T2D and she is usually on some kind of diet (Keto these days) so we don't eat potatoes (starch/carbs = sugar) and have to be careful with fruit (sugar) and here is a surprising thing you may not know; above ground veg is generally less popular, but better for us and below ground veg is the opposite.
The reason we like root veg is because it's higher in sugar than above ground veg.
I'm going to go big on toms and carrots, quite a few potatoes. The reason being other people want them so I can trade and sell. Carrots i've found will overwinter in the ground as will some other crops, this means fresh veg to eat, trade and sell all through Winter.

People have discovered growing potatoes in buckets to be successful so i'll give those a go. I've also been researching how to grow great carrots without forking so will try a lot of those too.

I think some things are as tasty from the Supermarket as they are home grown, but then I haven't a great sense of taste. Carrots and toms are certainly better home grown though. You sometimes have to look for good reasons to grow your own other than the satisfaction.

I created an indoor strawberry bed by digging all this out with a mattock and pickaxe, there was so much stone and rock in there, I riddled the soil, it was about 50/50 stones/soil!
I mixed it with home made compost, put some weed suppressant sheet over:



You'll see a blowlamp lurking, that's used to burn/melt the holes through the membrane:



Use a plank so you don't overly compact the soil. It's all planted out now with some space at the back for cucumbers to climb. The shade from them shouldn't be too much of an issue as they're on the North side.

Other banter, ponderances, tips and tricks later....

[Evoluzione]

PositronicRay said:

I don't eat much fruit and find veggies hard work.

So tomatoes and basil (again) in a second hand green house. Beds ready, basic irrigation, in last was a doddle.

Kudos to those that put the effort in though.

Hard work to grow or eat?

This was last years basil:


Sorry, I don't know what they were called!

[Evoluzione]

droopsnoot said:

I put some onions and potatoes in a few weeks back, and have a few onions showing. I've got tomatoes, mustard and cress in pots on the kitchen windowsill, and a few other seed packets still to go in.

That's about 3 months early for the UK, what's your secret? Heated greenhouse? Villa in the Spain?

[Evoluzione]

XCP said:

Evoluzione said:

droopsnoot said:

I put some onions and potatoes in a few weeks back, and have a few onions showing. I've got tomatoes, mustard and cress in pots on the kitchen windowsill, and a few other seed packets still to go in.

That's about 3 months early for the UK, what's your secret? Heated greenhouse? Villa in the Spain?

I was worried. I am still mulling over which seed potatoes to buy.

If it helps Suttons have rated the potatoes in their paper catalogue, they have letters after them denoting what they excell at or are a good all rounder etc. Are you putting them in the ground or containers?

[Evoluzione]

XCP said:

I am returning to gardening having bought a house with a garden including a raised bed and a greenhouse! I shall be planting some spuds in the ground and some onion sets and carrots and French beans in the raised bed. Tomatoes in the greenhouse. Nothing too adventurous to start with. All frozen solid at the moment obviously.

Beds or bags for tomatoes?
Be aware carrots are 'special needs' veg so be careful.

[Evoluzione]

droopsnoot said:

Most of the potatoes were already in the ground when I cleared a spot for the onions to go in, and I just re-planted them in a different area where I thought I might remember them. As they were already there, I haven't really given it much thought. This is my Dad's old vegetable patch that I've sort-of taken over, and pretty much every time I clear a bit I find some potatoes in the ground. I don't even eat all that many potatoes, but I don't like to waste them if they'll grow again.

Onions said "plant September to December" on the packet, bought cheap from the Wilkos clearance at the end of last year. I planted onion seeds last year, and none came up.

I see, you have Winter onions like I have in the pics above.
Potatoes may or may not come up, if they've been frozen, rotted away or eaten they won't of course. My mother would always lob old wizened potatoes on the compost heap where they'd get buried and be kept warm over Winter, next year they'd have accidental potato plants growing in there.

You've outlined the big potato problem of course and that is finding them all.

There is one other typical issue with them. It's been realised that disturbing the ground in such a way is actually bad for it and crop volume will worsen (Google/YT 'No dig').

Taking both those into consideration is why container growing is gaining popularity at the moment. You can start them earlier if you have indoor space before pulling them outside, then tip the whole lot out at the end to get to all the potatoes.

[Evoluzione]

Sticks. said:

Yes, I've given up doing carrots, even in a part of the raised bed with sandy soil. So I expect I'll go for the easy option of first early spuds, swap them for runner beans - unless I think of something else, maybe leeks - onion sets, maybe broad or french beans. The small bed is for strawberries and the greenhouse will have a range of tomatoes, cucumbers, padrons, chillies and some mixed leaves.

So far the garden is still like a bog, being clay, so I've done nothing except buy a greenhouse heater.

What was the problem with the carrots, forking? Carrot root fly is another big problem for many.

[Evoluzione]

wombleh said:

Always found spuds in containers got demolished by slugs here. Despite going out hunting after dark with a torch and bottle of salt water!

I'll be doing nematodes this year.

[Evoluzione]

Sticks. said:

Evoluzione said:

What was the problem with the carrots, forking? Carrot root fly is another big problem for many.

I've not had a problem with carrot fly, probably because of the (number of) onions, but they just don't grow any longer than my thumb, at best. As shame, as I like them and they store well enough.

Re onions, there are varieties you can plant in Autumn but by now they'd have grown a bit. The disadvantage of putting them in now is I think the birds will have them, as any little shoots look worm-like, get pulled out and dropped.

I know no dig is popular but one advantage of digging is potatoes will grow more easily and for me, wanting to get first earlies in as soon as I can, I can let some warmth into the soil. Some people cover with black plastic for this. Something which could be debated ad inf

It would be a shame to give up on carrots when you're so close, because they're well worth persisting with. They're so much tastier and crisp than the SM and it's so handy to be able to pull one out in Feb with a smug smile and a nod muttering 'fk i'm good I am'
Particular short variant aside, I would say they haven't had enough nutrient and/or sun. The fact they're raised falls in their favour as CRF is a low flying insect.
They need a sunny spot, sandy, stone free soil and the correct nutrients. The nutrients needed for any plant are basically N, P and K.
Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium.
Chemical fertilisers are labelled with the content of each so you know what you're buying, it'll be something like a 2:2:2. Some other organic, but shop bought fertilisers are quoted as being strong in some elements and weak in others (seaweed, blood, bonemeal etc)
What you DO NOT want in carrot compost/soil is an abundance of N, this will absolutely play havoc with them because it's good for leaf growth. If the tap root starts taking up N it'll get greedy and send loads more roots out everywhere to find it all and hoover it up to feed the top growth.
What does a plant want to do? What is it's sole purpose in life? Well it's not to be prematurely eaten that's for sure. It wants to make seed to reproduce, our job is to stop a carrot from doing this and make it search for food via the tap root (singular).

You need to feed appropriately. No fresh homemade compost unless you put it in 6 months to a year before (because it's high in N). Some new bagged composts are also high in it too so I would advise re-using the stuff you already have if it's stone free, but add more P & K than they've previously had.

So they need a dedicated planter really, unless you can split a planter in half or whatever. I would encourage having another go with that in mind and see how it goes.
Successful carrots, nay, huge award winning carrots need the above, a bit more method and nothing more than an old water tank to grow them in.

The only potential issue is in storing them in the ground in Winter. They need to be protected from predators and extreme freeze. You might get to the latter in a container if it goes down far enough (beyond -7 perhaps), but as said earlier mine have been down to -7 in the ground and are fine. In fact, because the soil was frozen so hard and has now defrosted it's come loose and they're really easy to pull as the soil has released it's grip.






They're not perfect, but are ok for a first attempt in unknown territory.

Edited by Evoluzione on Wednesday 25th January 13:58

[Evoluzione]

Sticks. said:

Evoluzione said:

I'll be doing nematodes this year.

Have you tried them before? We had a year off slugs last year with it being so dry but I've seen some already this year.

No, it'll be the first time, i've heard nothing but good things about them and can see no other way around the problem, apparently:

The effect can be long lasting which will suit my 'veg-left-in-ground-in-Winter' plan.
Once you've put them in (apart from renewing) they're maintenance free.
I believe you can get different ones for different pests
You can produce your own, but don't think i'll go that far.

I can't give, trade or sell substandard veg, you have to give people something which is better than Supermarket stuff in one or more ways, not worse.
The slugs are maybe worse here because of the rural location, we're surrounded by fields and not houses.

Last year we had an early crop of Brussels and harvested them whilst it was still warm or mild, fk me the whole World and his wife of the insect/slug community had gone into them to shelter and eat. My poor O/H spent hours stripping everyone out to get to a decent core before eating or freezing them. I went in the kitchen and couldn't see her, she was hidden behind this vast pile of sprout leaves and corpses of minute wildlife.
The interesting thing is that in Dec and Jan that has stopped and they're all tight and pest free. I believe there is more than one thing at work there, more than one cause perhaps like timing and loose sprouts.

A similar tale with lettuce, every single leaf had to be plucked and cleaned of pests and soil.

Then in Summer all Brassicas came under attack from cabbage white caterpillars. I was out every day searching and squishing for maybe a month or two. They wrecked a lot of produce and were very time consuming, i've never known them be so bad until I came here, although it could have been the weather too.
The cure for that is either a spray, nets or just give up growing them.
A lot to do and learn yet.

Edited by Evoluzione on Wednesday 25th January 21:10

[Evoluzione]

droopsnoot said:

The biggest trouble I have in the vegetable patch (apart from my own laziness) is that the local cats use it as a toilet, along with the front lawn, the latter discovered during autumn as I scooped up some fallen leaves with my (fortunately gloved) hands while tidying up. Couldn't even be bothered buying it in a border.

There is a known nasty disease/condition/whatever to be caught from that so be very careful.

A low loose plastic fence can be put around veg patches to stop them (and the rabbits we have). Because it's loose and a bit floppy they can't climb it to get in, it just folds over backwards and they fall off. They're not clever enough to use a pole vault, make a ramp or take a running jump

[Evoluzione]

Gone a bit AMG said:

Will be hoping to improve on good tomato harvest, one decent corncob and reviisting the chillis on the balcony which were a great success

First year for chillis here, I don't even like them, but she got a seed advent calendar with some in so will have a go.

Part of the reason for starting this thread so early is to discuss last years problems and get prepared early to avoid any failures this year.
So there you go, how come you only managed a single sweetcorn? Was this from a group of plants?
With the weather we had it should have been a bumper crop.

[Evoluzione]

You could try one of those PIR triggered water jets. They work, but it's a bugger when you forget and get a soaking yourself.
I got my garlic in in November, it's growing and seems to be hanging in ok. A good cold spell does many types some good and triggers it to grow. It's useful to learn about triggers, a lot of seeds, bulbs and plants are caused to do things by what they sense - cold, drought etc. Some veggies are triggered to bolt (go to seed prematurely) by some conditions. I'm going to have a go at growing Giant sequoias and they need a spell in the fridge & freezer to get them going.
I'm an avid home composter, more on that later.
I never knew about vitamins and skin, it just seems wrong to eat the skin! They seem to taste a bit earthy to me with it on and always peel them. Similar or same rules apply to growing Parsnips as carrots btw, they're another you can leave in over Winter. They reckon those and Sprouts get a touch sweeter after a frost.



It looks very desolate in there compared to Summer and you can see what the wind has done to them, but what's left are tight with only the outer leaves a bit frost damaged, they're fine inside.

Unless I get time for nets I think i'll stand by with some spray for the cabbage whites, see how it goes. A neighbour said they don't give up easy and he's right. I was chasing them off with a hose pipe, they're very resilient and determined. He said he chased one off, it went round his house and came back the other way!
I didn't have the heart to tell him it might have been a different one....

[Evoluzione]

NMNeil said:

Evoluzione said:

You'll see a blowlamp lurking, that's used to burn/melt the holes through the membrane:



Use a plank so you don't overly compact the soil. It's all planted out now with some space at the back for cucumbers to climb. The shade from them shouldn't be too much of an issue as they're on the North side.

Other banter, ponderances, tips and tricks later....

Do you use drip irrigation under the plastic?

The woven plastic lets water through, gives the strawberries something to rest on and prevents weeds and moisture leaving from below, but to answer your question; not yet, but yes eventually!
Last year any spare time was used getting the initial supply and storage ready, as i'm going to be using a natural spring to irrigate.

[Evoluzione]

At least you know what you did wrong AMG, it's something I read about too - putting all the plants into a group so the pollinate each other.
Lots of shade in your garden there Sticks, that won't be helping.

Link to the cheapest growing buckets i've found so far: https://www.oaklandgardens.co.uk/plant-pot-contain...

For reference a 30L will do for a few potato plants, note how they've designed the bottom so it drains well.

Thoughts on mulching

I really don't like putting so much plastic into gardens and like to be as Eco friendly as possible, but I can certainly see the attraction of it, things i've thought about:

Mine in the strawberry patch will be there for 3yrs before the plants will be replaced and I can re-use the plastic. That is if the UV hasn't destroyed it, it's a roll end from some cheap LidlAldi stuff I had many years ago and IIRC it isn't UV resistant! To counteract that i'll put some woodchip mulch over to protect it.

I would much prefer to use a natural mulch and will test it, but it won't be as efficient as plastic and will need renewing every year. This isn't so bad as it'll go into the ground, rot down and provide nutrients.
If you set your garden out effectively enough (lets say all your beds are the same dimensions) then you could lift out your plastic sheets and re-use them, even if you rotate your crops. The same sheet has to stay with that crop as it'll be hole spaced accordingly.
You can buy pre-holed membrane, but make sure the spacings suit whatever you're growing.

Weeds are of course a bloody nuisance, without a membrane it's just a case of weeding maybe once a week per patch. Little and often is the rule, this way it'll only take a few minutes to keep them down. Never let them get a greater hold.

By practicing 'No dig' you end up with healthier soil, resulting in a better crop yield. If starting from scratch it means putting one or two layers of cardboard down on the grass/weeds then dumping a layer of compost on top to put the plants into. After that you just put a new thin layer of compost over every year and replant. This new layer is supposed to suppress weeds, but it either has seeds already in it, they poke through from below or get blown in from elsewhere, so it's not completely effective in practice.


Oh and i've just added Goji berries to the list of things I want to grow, if you look into them they seem very easy and are also very hardy plants.

[Evoluzione]

Peanut Gallery said:

Watching, but in NE Scotland we are still expecting more snow, and frost into May.

I would add I am really hoping to get a trailer load of compost to really layer onto the allotment this year. Might help the weeds grow knowing my luck!

As said, at this time it's all about planning ahead, you need to consider a greenhouse/polytunnel!
Compost is a big subject and it depends on what you're terming as 'compost'.

[Evoluzione]

Seeds and vendors

I ordered from Suttons last Autumn and they were terrible, it was only a small, maybe 5 - 6 item order yet it took about 3 courier visits to complete.
I haven't tried the big one - Thompson & Morgan for a few years so can't give an accurate report on them. What annoyed me about Suttons was it was all 'In stock' on the screen, but clearly wasn't. It took a month (!) to complete by which time the sowing time had passed resulting in failed plants. So bear that in mind when ordering, remember, everyone is buying the same things at the same time. They should be prepared for this, but Suttons at least weren't, I don't know why and they couldn't tell me either.

Atm I'm trying Premierseedsdirect so will let you know how I get on. Their site is easy to use and it (if it's to be believed) shows how many are in stock.
Seeds are so cheap! 17 different items in my basket so far and the total without shipping is currently £18. I haven't reckoned it up, but that's hundreds, if not thousands of seeds.
What is annoying is that some are sold per gram, I have no idea how many xxxx seeds are in .5grm.

[Evoluzione]

GIYess said:

Hoping to develop some veg growing skills this year. Grew beetroot and Swede in a small raised bed last year. Problem was I just picked as we used them and by the end the Swedes were getting a bit Woody.
Want to try onions this year and can't decide what else yet. Maybe a bit of salad.
I also have inherited my dad's rased beds which are overgrown so would like to put something in there. Will be following on here to see if I can learn something.

Have no greenhouses or anything and in Northern Ireland so fair weather grower!

Is the soil level low enough in those beds to take another 2" or so of compost? If so they're perfect for the labour saving and healthy soil effect of 'no dig'.

Much of fruit and veg gardening is about lengthening the growing season to get the most kg per Sqm of ground for as long as possible. At the mercy of our unpredictable weather it's a gamble every year, but you can lessen the odds and stack them more in your favour.
Greenhouses and Polytunnels are the obvious weapons here, but you don't have those so have a look at other options. Research fleeces, cloches and cold frames. If it's anything like it is up here at over 1000ft then take high and persistent winds into consideration.
Also buy seeds which are happy to grow in your climate, even within one chosen crop there will be some adapted to being colder and wetter than the opposite.

You've touched on something else there you may have read i'm interested in, that's what and for how long we can leave veggies in the ground.
We also tried leaving swede in the ground and I wouldn't have gone as far as to say 'woody', more 'robust'. It did take a bit more boiling and needed a metal masher rather than a plastic one so perhaps they were caught on the cusp. So not inedible, just difficult.
They were gone before the big freeze I think, what that would have done I don't know. There may be a variety which over Winters better and also it could depend on how far they have matured by the onset of Winter.

boyse7en said:

I've spent the winter sorting out raised beds in my new (to me) greenhouse and now have beds about 2' wide and 30' long in total.

Will be growing cherry tomatoes, with basil under, a chilli or two and maybe a cucumber (not had much success with these in the past). What else is worth sowing for the summer?

Re: Carrots. I grown them outdoors in a couple of tall pots filled with 50/50 sand and compost and get a decent return. Not massive examples but very tasty.

And Strawberries. What do I do with the runners? I've planted a dozen or so to make new plants, but there are still loads coming off of the established plants. Do i trim them off now, wait until later, or just leave them?

Can you get a long bed in running East - West in the greenhouse? Growing in the ground in a greenhouse is better because raised beds dry out quicker, so just be aware of that and water accordingly.
There is a method to growing large show carrots in containers if that's your thing.
If you're throwing the strawberry runners out then cut them off and do so at any time. If you're growing them on then only do it early Autumn and Spring, not now. Unless they're under cover like some of mine are, then you can get away with doing them now. Remember the plants themselves are only good for about 3 years, after that the size of the fruit drops off so you need to keep new ones coming along and be making notes of what went where.

If you want to do something to them now and the weather allows then have a tidy up with the secateurs, remove any dead leaves and put some compost down. The rains will carry it down to the roots.

Edit: Any time spent now (when as gardeners we have more of it) is time saved when you're busy (Spring onwards).
With that in mind you could dig the runners up, pot them on and keep them in the greenhouse until it's time for them to go outside. That's what i'm doing, mainly as they're in the wrong bed now and I want them elsewhere.
If you're short of pots then raid the recycling bin, you'll find plenty in there to adapt.

Edited by Evoluzione on Friday 27th January 11:06

[Evoluzione]

UTH said:

Big Stevie said:

UTH said:

How funny, only an hour ago I started thinking about whether or not I'm going to bother again this year, and then I find this thread, and I'm mentioned, what an honour.

Maybe I should give the crowd what it wants. My mother even bought me a hideous plastic tomato planter thing that has wheels so you wheel it in and out of the sun, supposedly. Despite me saying I really didn't want one.

Definitely grow stuff again this year, if only to see certain members getting frustrated again

I'll have to think up some questions I've not asked.

You have to join in, your fans need you

I would also advise trawling some catalogues to find one or two variants which suit you and your conditions, not the party packs you bought before.

If I remember right last year was a big improvement on the year before, both increased knowledge, more equipment and better weather will have helped.
Again, IIRC they were still being allowed to run away a bit on their own with side shoots being thrown out in various places and left to grow. This is bad nnnkay, it's a total waste of the plants energy which should be going into the fruits. This year we want one single main stem with flower/tomato trusses on it and leaves. If a side shoot appears in the V between the main stem and a leaf then nip it out straight away. This is a game, the plant won't give up and will throw them out all over when and where you're not looking. So it'll need a good inspection every few days.

[Evoluzione]

Jambo85 said:

UTH said:

I'll have to think up some questions I've not asked.

It’ll annoy Evoluzione far more if you repeat ones you’ve already had answered

Shut up