Plumbing question - smells
Discussion
Firstly forgive me if I don’t get back to this until tonight but I’m literally on my way out of the door.
When we bought this house 4 years ago it had been empty for a few months. As soon as I opened the front door I could smell something. It seemed to be coming from the en suite bathroom and I naively assumed at the time it was because it hadn’t been used and was dry.
How wrong was I.
4 years in, we changed the dirgo valve and for a while thought it was cured. It was not.
Put a vent on the boxing of the dirgo. Didn’t help. Had a plumber in who couldn’t see anything obvious and confirmed the toilet seal was fine. Most recently replaced the trap on the shower and that seemed to work….. until 4am this morning when the smell was so bad through the open door it woke me up with a headache.
I’m at my wits end now. Husband has commented that he thinks the smell is worse when it rains, and it did belt down here both yesterday and today.
Weirdly, the main bathroom isn’t affected by the smell but the front downstairs loo is very occasionally and not especially pungent.
The other weird, which could be completely my imagination, is one Sunday when i scraped the remains of a Sunday lunch into the waste disposal I could have sworn I could smell it in the en suite.
I kept a diary for ages of weather, plumbing use, waste disposal use etc and I can’t find a link.
Any suggestions where on earth I go from here and is it as I fear an expensive external cracked pipe job?
Ta
When we bought this house 4 years ago it had been empty for a few months. As soon as I opened the front door I could smell something. It seemed to be coming from the en suite bathroom and I naively assumed at the time it was because it hadn’t been used and was dry.
How wrong was I.
4 years in, we changed the dirgo valve and for a while thought it was cured. It was not.
Put a vent on the boxing of the dirgo. Didn’t help. Had a plumber in who couldn’t see anything obvious and confirmed the toilet seal was fine. Most recently replaced the trap on the shower and that seemed to work….. until 4am this morning when the smell was so bad through the open door it woke me up with a headache.
I’m at my wits end now. Husband has commented that he thinks the smell is worse when it rains, and it did belt down here both yesterday and today.
Weirdly, the main bathroom isn’t affected by the smell but the front downstairs loo is very occasionally and not especially pungent.
The other weird, which could be completely my imagination, is one Sunday when i scraped the remains of a Sunday lunch into the waste disposal I could have sworn I could smell it in the en suite.
I kept a diary for ages of weather, plumbing use, waste disposal use etc and I can’t find a link.
Any suggestions where on earth I go from here and is it as I fear an expensive external cracked pipe job?
Ta
Thanks Panamax.
I did cover the shower drain and when it was had very little smell, hence we changed the trap. It could be coincidence but I’ll try that again as well as your other suggestions.
I’ve crawled around the room on my hands and knees sniffing everything which was fun but can’t find an exact source. Husband has just pointed out that when I had a clear out of my spice cupboard down the waste disposal he could smell that on the en suite as well.
I’ll get the manholes up over the weekend and jet them through, we’ve done this a few times over the years but never been smell free for longer than a few months.
I did cover the shower drain and when it was had very little smell, hence we changed the trap. It could be coincidence but I’ll try that again as well as your other suggestions.
I’ve crawled around the room on my hands and knees sniffing everything which was fun but can’t find an exact source. Husband has just pointed out that when I had a clear out of my spice cupboard down the waste disposal he could smell that on the en suite as well.
I’ll get the manholes up over the weekend and jet them through, we’ve done this a few times over the years but never been smell free for longer than a few months.
Thank you all for your input so far, especially about the sewer gas link. Other half has been a bit blasé over it the last few years and I've finally cracked because it's driving me mad, he doesn't use that room, preferring the main bathroom so I can understand why it doesn't bother him as much as it does me.
To answer some questions, the shower trap we changed about a month ago and had been smell free until yesterday. New tap retains water and it's the shower I use daily so it's not drying out. Trap on the sink is also fairly new, tellingly the pedestal sealant has been cut and is freestanding from the sink so I suspect someone replaced the trap there before we moved in, in an attempt to track down the smell. Other questions:
Is it a modern house?
Ish yes, it was built in 2000.
From your post, you have a downstairs WC, an upstairs bathroom and an ensuite?
Correct, yes. Downstairs WC is directly underneath upstairs en suite and shares the same stack I assume. Main bathroom is to the back of the house.
Is the shower in the ensuite?
It is and is a cubicle shower. There is a secondary over bath shower in the main bathroom. We've never had a smell in this room.
Does the ensuite sit above downstairs WC (so share the same vent)
It does. The stack pipe comes down from the en suite through the downstairs loo. We have had a very slight smell in here occasionally, but nothing compared to the en suite.
Does the ensuite sit above the kitchen (so share the same vent)
No, the kitchen is at the back of the house, en suite and downstairs loo at the front.
Do the kitchen/wc/bathroom/ensuite share the same vent?
I dont believe so, I do have the original house design plans somewhere so might be able to find a plumbing plan
Which room has the durgo?
This is in the corner in the en suite.
Are any other stacks outside or boxed and vent through the roof?
There's a soil stack at the head of the drain on the outside of the house that vents to outside air. This stack serves a bath, wc and whb at first floor level. The drains run around the building. The en-suite has a stub stack with an air admittance valve (durgo) that connects into the drain run. Connected to the stub stack is a wc, shower and whb at first floor and a wc and whb at ground floor level.
Photo from the sales stuff. The box with the white lid houses the durgo. It had a sealed wooden top initially. We were told at one point this needed air flow so put a vent into the top. Sadly made no difference whatsoever
.
House layout. Kitchen sink and Waste Disposal is under the window where the grey square is:
To answer some questions, the shower trap we changed about a month ago and had been smell free until yesterday. New tap retains water and it's the shower I use daily so it's not drying out. Trap on the sink is also fairly new, tellingly the pedestal sealant has been cut and is freestanding from the sink so I suspect someone replaced the trap there before we moved in, in an attempt to track down the smell. Other questions:
Is it a modern house?
Ish yes, it was built in 2000.
From your post, you have a downstairs WC, an upstairs bathroom and an ensuite?
Correct, yes. Downstairs WC is directly underneath upstairs en suite and shares the same stack I assume. Main bathroom is to the back of the house.
Is the shower in the ensuite?
It is and is a cubicle shower. There is a secondary over bath shower in the main bathroom. We've never had a smell in this room.
Does the ensuite sit above downstairs WC (so share the same vent)
It does. The stack pipe comes down from the en suite through the downstairs loo. We have had a very slight smell in here occasionally, but nothing compared to the en suite.
Does the ensuite sit above the kitchen (so share the same vent)
No, the kitchen is at the back of the house, en suite and downstairs loo at the front.
Do the kitchen/wc/bathroom/ensuite share the same vent?
I dont believe so, I do have the original house design plans somewhere so might be able to find a plumbing plan
Which room has the durgo?
This is in the corner in the en suite.
Are any other stacks outside or boxed and vent through the roof?
There's a soil stack at the head of the drain on the outside of the house that vents to outside air. This stack serves a bath, wc and whb at first floor level. The drains run around the building. The en-suite has a stub stack with an air admittance valve (durgo) that connects into the drain run. Connected to the stub stack is a wc, shower and whb at first floor and a wc and whb at ground floor level.
Photo from the sales stuff. The box with the white lid houses the durgo. It had a sealed wooden top initially. We were told at one point this needed air flow so put a vent into the top. Sadly made no difference whatsoever
.
House layout. Kitchen sink and Waste Disposal is under the window where the grey square is:
Panamax said:
My bet is the smell "comes from the trap" but the problem "isn't the trap".
Time to get the professionals in. They'll probably get it sorted in no time. Hopefully. Even if it turns out to be something awkward/expensive at least you'll know what it is as opposed to just guessing.
Drains can be smelly/unpleasant but at the end of the day they aren't complicated.
I think thats where we're at now. We did have a plumber in last year who discovered the durgo wasn't pushed down properly in the boxing. He did it, 2 minute job and initially refused payment until I insisted on giving him £20. It worked, and again for a while we were really hopeful it had solved the issues.Time to get the professionals in. They'll probably get it sorted in no time. Hopefully. Even if it turns out to be something awkward/expensive at least you'll know what it is as opposed to just guessing.
Drains can be smelly/unpleasant but at the end of the day they aren't complicated.
What worries me is we have a bit of a natural pond (more of a lake) right outside the house, so I can imagine any ground works would be hugely expensive, but you're right, we can keep guessing like this forever and a day. It needs sorting.
Road2Ruin said:
Wr had this in our new house for about a year. Turned out to be a split in the toilet waste where it went through the wall. The gases were escaping through the split and collecting in the gap between the walls. When the wind blew it would find it's way out and it could appear almost anywhere in the rooms below the toilet. It was pure chance we found it.
Interesting you should say that. In my very exciting plumbing diary I'd covered most weather elements, use of washer, hose, dishwasher, waste disposal etc. I did not add wind into this. It was extremely windy here last night.Panamax said:
Everything you're saying suggests something simple, but awkward. I'd rather spend ££ getting someone who knows what they're doing than carry on replacing parts and facing the nightmare of disrupting tiles etc. I truly believe a competent drainage guy would have it nailed in short order. Not a bathroom fitter; someone who understands drains.
Absolutely. Bless the other half I love him dearly but he does want to try and sort stuff himself before admitting defeat and I've had to really get firm over this now and put my foot down. Happy wife happy life and all that 
Anyway, plumber will be called in the morning.
I shall update because it might well come in useful looking at how many of you have had similar issues.
Panamax said:
If you leave one of the covers closest to your house propped open (even a quarter of an inch), does it stop the smell in your house? I'm laying a 50:50 bet that it does.
(The point here is that when you have the cover open and stick your hosepipe down there isn't a problem. But as soon as you close the cover there is because the air movement changes. I'm not a drainage expert but I've spent more than a few minutes with my head under inspection covers and fishing around with garden implements.....)
I’ll give it a go, have to fashion some kind of grid because I’d imagine newts would be in it at even half an inch given I can’t move for them at present (The point here is that when you have the cover open and stick your hosepipe down there isn't a problem. But as soon as you close the cover there is because the air movement changes. I'm not a drainage expert but I've spent more than a few minutes with my head under inspection covers and fishing around with garden implements.....)
Pflanzgarten said:
Speaking as a plumber, you really want one of those leak detection specialists rather than a bathroom fitter type.
Apparently the guy we’ve been recommended can walk in, sniff and know exactly what’s what in the words of my ‘boiler plumber’ so will speak to him first. Bit of a shortage of decent reliable plumbers here unfortunately but I’ll do some research into leak detection as well tomorrow. Ta. pocketspring said:
You sure it isn't the other half? 
He’s not allowed in there, he pollutes his own room the advantage of the kids leaving home is he can have his bathroom and I’ll keep mine hahaTo be fair though, even he doesn’t smell as bad as that room does sometimes (though the time he had a kangaroo steak probably came close)
B'stard Child said:
You didn't replace it with one of these traps did you?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-space-saving-s...
They are bloody useless for keeping out smells from shared soil stacks
No, that was similar to what was on it first, hence the eureka moment in thinking we’d found it. New trap was quite deep and holds back a fair bit of water. https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-space-saving-s...
They are bloody useless for keeping out smells from shared soil stacks
I have a suspicion, given the newish trap on the sink, the new connector on the loo and the skirting around the shower base that had already had the seal cut before we got there, that someone has gone through all this before and replaced all the obvious without solving it.
As the house was a short term rental for years really before we bought it nobody has really looked into it properly I suspect, choosing quick fixes to keep tenants happy.
Going to lift the side manhole slightly in the morning and give it a week. It’s down the side of the house and nicely out of the way. In theory we could permanently vent that if it works.
Shower does drain along under the radiator. This is the durgo in the boxing, it is higher than the sink. I’ve even stuck fresh disks in there but the smell has never seemed to directly come from that box to me.
Interesting you say about manholes, cleared around them earlier and have now slightly propped one. One is in grass so pulled everything from around it.
Smell was worse than ever in the early hours again. Genuinely don’t know how he sleeps through it. The door was closed and I could smell it. When I got up it had gone again and remains gone now.
Leaving manhole open over the weekend so will see if that helps. Been told plumber we have is amazing with leaks so calling him Monday morning.Ended up distracted today clearing invasive weed from the pond and only just stopped.
Interesting you say about manholes, cleared around them earlier and have now slightly propped one. One is in grass so pulled everything from around it.
Smell was worse than ever in the early hours again. Genuinely don’t know how he sleeps through it. The door was closed and I could smell it. When I got up it had gone again and remains gone now.
Leaving manhole open over the weekend so will see if that helps. Been told plumber we have is amazing with leaks so calling him Monday morning.Ended up distracted today clearing invasive weed from the pond and only just stopped.
OK, so manhole remains open. Smell is very faint. Better than it has been for the last week. Could be coincidence. It's rained like buggery here this morning as well, so will see how we go.
@dobly funny you say that, my late father in law was a buildings inspector and always complained about the use of durgo's. Couldn't see the point. He hated them.
@dave_s13
I read your post out to him indoors, his grin getting increasingly wider as I went, got to the smoke bomb part and he lights up further with "Oo! There are some smoke bombs in my dads garage!"
Alas for him, we don't own a leaf blower. Or at least we dont as I type. Give him a few hours...
Seriously though, ingenious that.
@jimmyjimjim no, no drain holes etc
@AW10 interesting point, presume there is a cap, but worth us checking over the weekend. No gurgling at all really from anywhere.
@NextSlidePlease I've done variations of this a few times with masking tape. At one point half the bathroom was taped up, covered in film etc. The smell remained unfortunately.
@jules_s plan snipped! The only thing on it is a vent in the ridge tile, far right of the pic
@dobly funny you say that, my late father in law was a buildings inspector and always complained about the use of durgo's. Couldn't see the point. He hated them.
@dave_s13
I read your post out to him indoors, his grin getting increasingly wider as I went, got to the smoke bomb part and he lights up further with "Oo! There are some smoke bombs in my dads garage!"
Alas for him, we don't own a leaf blower. Or at least we dont as I type. Give him a few hours...
Seriously though, ingenious that.
@jimmyjimjim no, no drain holes etc
@AW10 interesting point, presume there is a cap, but worth us checking over the weekend. No gurgling at all really from anywhere.
@NextSlidePlease I've done variations of this a few times with masking tape. At one point half the bathroom was taped up, covered in film etc. The smell remained unfortunately.
@jules_s plan snipped! The only thing on it is a vent in the ridge tile, far right of the pic
jimmyjimjim said:
Tell him to buy electric for this task, as he's not going to be moving around the garden with it.
Unless he wants to actually blow leaves with it.
Shame (although good) that nothing is blocked; worst bathroom smell by far I had was water backing up in the shower frame and creating a rotten eggs smell. Went quickly after clearing the blockage.
If it were constant it would be much easier, but its so random. We can go weeks without it and then suddenly it's so bad it wakes you up at night. As I said earlier I had a diary stuck to the fridge that covered every scenario from what I'd put down the waste disposal (at one point I even stopped using that as a test), when I had the washer on, outdoor temperature, rainfall etc etc. And then it would disappear again, get put to the back of the jobs list until the next time.Unless he wants to actually blow leaves with it.
Shame (although good) that nothing is blocked; worst bathroom smell by far I had was water backing up in the shower frame and creating a rotten eggs smell. Went quickly after clearing the blockage.
Plumber is being called Monday, him indoors has finally relented that it does need fixing, even if that is expensive, because although it doesn't seem to bother him a great deal it really does bother me. It's either that or we're moving
paulwirral said:
is it worse when it’s windy ? Old fashioned outside soil vent pipe like I said on the previous page always works , it’s the way they’re supposed to be and as I said , it worked both times for me in solving this problem . Luckily I don’t have to pay people to do things like this but it really shouldn’t be more than half a days work for one guy .
It definitely was this time, but historically it's the one factor I didn't record so unsure.I think regardless of outcome of plumber visit we may ask him do just that and extend the stack up and out to avoid any issues with it in the future.
CoupeKid said:
Has the plumber with the magic nose been yet?
Next week is the soonest he can fit us in, Thursday. After a few really strong smelling days it’s settled again. Idly wondered if the other half emptying a bath had anything to do with it as he usually has a shower in his bathroom, but can’t think of a connection in the past so probably coincidence. AyBee said:
I find emptying the bath is a good way of also pulling water out of shallow traps...
Interesting.He's away on business at the moment, so just me in the house. Might fill the bath with cold water later and let it out to see if anything happens. As he's away I know exactly whats being used and when so can probably monitor a bit better.
Be surprised if it was that though as shower trap has been replaced for a deep one and sink is already reasonably new by the looks of it.
Plumber update!
He turned up yesterday, Typically, and as I expected, it smelled sweet as a bloody daisy in there.
He had a sniff, concluded there was a smell in the boxing by the dirgo, he could feel a breeze behind the loo which might suggest a seal there and finally, the water trap we thought was on the sink, isn't.
He was quite honest and said he couldn't pin point it and it might be any of, all three of, or none of the above. He noted the boxing in which the dirgo sits it's quite tight around it, and much like us wasn't at all a fan of them anyway, so the plan of action is thus:
Remove the dirgo, extend the pipe up and out of the front of the house. I'll lose some tiles so have to rebox it, probably end up wood cladding and go for a boat type aesthetic
Replace toilet seal.
Replace sink trap.
I shall update when I'm penniless in a few weeks time
He turned up yesterday, Typically, and as I expected, it smelled sweet as a bloody daisy in there.
He had a sniff, concluded there was a smell in the boxing by the dirgo, he could feel a breeze behind the loo which might suggest a seal there and finally, the water trap we thought was on the sink, isn't.
He was quite honest and said he couldn't pin point it and it might be any of, all three of, or none of the above. He noted the boxing in which the dirgo sits it's quite tight around it, and much like us wasn't at all a fan of them anyway, so the plan of action is thus:
Remove the dirgo, extend the pipe up and out of the front of the house. I'll lose some tiles so have to rebox it, probably end up wood cladding and go for a boat type aesthetic
Replace toilet seal.
Replace sink trap.
I shall update when I'm penniless in a few weeks time
CoupeKid said:
Any conclusion?
There is! I went down this route:SistersofPercy said:
Remove the dirgo, extend the pipe up and out of the front of the house.
Replace toilet seal.
Replace sink trap.
In the end decided to replace the toilet and sink with a built in vanity style unit to give me some storage as well and update the space a bit. Plumber was great, two days on the job, replaced shower trap again as well just to be certain. Boxing in didn't look anywhere near as bad as I was expecting and he managed to sort it without losing tiles.Replace toilet seal.
Replace sink trap.
So far it seems to have worked. Not a hint of a smell. Almost 100% sure it was caused by the boxing around the dirgo being to tight and stopping it moving as it should.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff