I'm going to try doing a patio
Discussion
After getting sick of the usual tradesmen no shows, obscene quotes and stories of poor quality work despite claims of "being the best". I've decided to give this job a go myself.
The job being, laying around 40sqm of patio at lawn level directly behind our house.
I'm fairly handy when it comes to DIY jobs but I've never done any gluing stuff together with cement type work. Unless you count sticking a few coping stones back on a wall (which later fell off again). So it's going to be a steep learning curve... hopefully with some help and tips from the PH hive mind.
Photos of the area below. Not decided on what type of "slab" to put down. Seems porcelain tiles are very popular these days but I'm a bit concerned they'll be slippery, might crack easier, might be more difficult to cut???
Highlighted area where the patio will go
The thought of tackling this manhole cover is giving me nightmares
The job being, laying around 40sqm of patio at lawn level directly behind our house.
I'm fairly handy when it comes to DIY jobs but I've never done any gluing stuff together with cement type work. Unless you count sticking a few coping stones back on a wall (which later fell off again). So it's going to be a steep learning curve... hopefully with some help and tips from the PH hive mind.
Photos of the area below. Not decided on what type of "slab" to put down. Seems porcelain tiles are very popular these days but I'm a bit concerned they'll be slippery, might crack easier, might be more difficult to cut???
Highlighted area where the patio will go
The thought of tackling this manhole cover is giving me nightmares
Edited by nunpuncher on Monday 15th April 16:59
agent006 said:
We're about to do the same. My wife is doing all the planning and her bible is pavingexpert.com
We're going to get a local man&digger outfit to do the groundworks, to our levels, and then we'll do all the paving.
Yeah, I had a quick scan through some of that site so I have the basics in my mind ie depths needed for a good base etc. I've also found a local guy that will come in with a mini digger and clear the space to a depth of 150mm and take all the rubble away for £500.We're going to get a local man&digger outfit to do the groundworks, to our levels, and then we'll do all the paving.
I'd probably have given the digging out a go myself but getting rid of the soil/rubble is the bigger issue.
Yegap said:
nunpuncher said:
Yeah, I had a quick scan through some of that site so I have the basics in my mind ie depths needed for a good base etc. I've also found a local guy that will come in with a mini digger and clear the space to a depth of 150mm and take all the rubble away for £500.
I'd probably have given the digging out a go myself but getting rid of the soil/rubble is the bigger issue.
From experience the site prep is the worst/longest part. I'd be chewing their arm off for £500 if that includes removal as well. It's always way more material than you think and if your ground is laden with rocks it's really hard going doing it with a shovel... If you're following paving expert I don't think there is much more to it. 100mm MOT sub base, whacker plate it 5-10 times over (in intervals when laying the 100mm if you can), then a 40mm bed of 6to1 sharp sand and cement. I mortared with a dry sand and building cement mix. The brush in products are a max 2year solution, which is then a nightmare to repoint.I'd probably have given the digging out a go myself but getting rid of the soil/rubble is the bigger issue.
Also I'd recommend a slurry on the back of the slabs to help it stay stuck over time. SBR and cement mixed to a paste works very nicely.
Dry bed sounds easier so I was thinking about putting some edging in between the patio and grass to do it this way.
Yes, I've been keeping an eye on FB marketplace for a cement mixer. I'll hire a whacker plate as it's a bit easier to estimate how long I'd need that for.
I probably could get digger man to throw the base down but i think I'm going to have to build up around the manhole as the ground sinks slightly in that area. I've calculated that I'm going to need around 9 tonnes of type 1. Will be roping my son and a friend in to help.
So what are the thoughts on say a sandstone slab v porcelain? Is porcelain the way to go these days? I've always thought of it as being for indoors or for round a pool in a hot country.
Also. Weed barrier or geotextile. Should I be using one? Pavingexpert is pretty non committal on this detail.
I probably could get digger man to throw the base down but i think I'm going to have to build up around the manhole as the ground sinks slightly in that area. I've calculated that I'm going to need around 9 tonnes of type 1. Will be roping my son and a friend in to help.
So what are the thoughts on say a sandstone slab v porcelain? Is porcelain the way to go these days? I've always thought of it as being for indoors or for round a pool in a hot country.
Also. Weed barrier or geotextile. Should I be using one? Pavingexpert is pretty non committal on this detail.
Edited by nunpuncher on Tuesday 16th April 05:31
Initially I had thought it was for weed control but reading about it it does seem like it's for stabilizarion/seperation. Will I need it compacting down on to soil? This house was built early 60s on old farm land and was one of the first to be built so next to no rock and rubble in the ground. However, it is Scotland so very wet but drainage seems good.
Unfortunately getting the base tipped in place is impossible. Hopefully the HIAB can plonk bulk bags over the fence from the lane at the back otherwise it's going to be a lot of long walks with a wheelbarrow.
Unfortunately getting the base tipped in place is impossible. Hopefully the HIAB can plonk bulk bags over the fence from the lane at the back otherwise it's going to be a lot of long walks with a wheelbarrow.
Cheapest was £8k, most expensive was £12k. I have no idea how that might stack up with other regions, but here in the west of Scotland it's expensive. So far I've roughly costed sub base (type 1), sand, cement, slabs, ground clearance and removal of waste at £3k. I know there's more to add but I expect I can do it myself for half and learn a new skill.
I recently found out that the guy that quoted £12k quoted the same to a friend in work for a driveway, patio and retaining wall. His wife told them they only had £8k and he said "ok, I'll do it for that". Supposedly the work was very shoddy. 1 end of the wall was floating 1 inch off the ground, varying gaps between slabs. They used patterned tiles for the patio and despite drawing it out for them they still got it wrong. Honestly, I used to be a tradie (plasterer) but I HATE dealing with trades as a customer. A good experience is often the exception rather than the norm.
Few questions for those with experience.
I'd like to lay the slabs brick block (like the granite one above). Is this a bad idea for a beginner?
I think rectangle rather than square slabs would look better. Is 600 x 900 a bugger to work with as a beginner?
Digger man is lined up for clearing the ground on star wars day.
I recently found out that the guy that quoted £12k quoted the same to a friend in work for a driveway, patio and retaining wall. His wife told them they only had £8k and he said "ok, I'll do it for that". Supposedly the work was very shoddy. 1 end of the wall was floating 1 inch off the ground, varying gaps between slabs. They used patterned tiles for the patio and despite drawing it out for them they still got it wrong. Honestly, I used to be a tradie (plasterer) but I HATE dealing with trades as a customer. A good experience is often the exception rather than the norm.
Few questions for those with experience.
I'd like to lay the slabs brick block (like the granite one above). Is this a bad idea for a beginner?
I think rectangle rather than square slabs would look better. Is 600 x 900 a bugger to work with as a beginner?
Digger man is lined up for clearing the ground on star wars day.
Edited by nunpuncher on Thursday 18th April 08:34
Edited by nunpuncher on Thursday 18th April 08:39
Digging out done. Ended up crying stung £200 more than expected as the farmer had to do 2 trailers instead of 1.
It's dug down 150mm for the patio and 190 for the drive. Not ordered slabs yet but will go for 600x600 (900 being a bit daunting for a noob) so have come out just over 183cm for the narrow bit and 370 for the main area.
It's dug down 150mm for the patio and 190 for the drive. Not ordered slabs yet but will go for 600x600 (900 being a bit daunting for a noob) so have come out just over 183cm for the narrow bit and 370 for the main area.
As I said, it's 150 deep. I want the flags to sit just above the grass level so I've got the full 150 for my base and cement bed.
Remember there was paving here that had been down 40+ years on a dry bed. We went beyond lifting the sub base from that and since there was no sinkage in that I'm pretty confident the thicker base I put down will be ok.
Remember there was paving here that had been down 40+ years on a dry bed. We went beyond lifting the sub base from that and since there was no sinkage in that I'm pretty confident the thicker base I put down will be ok.
PositronicRay said:
Are they std dumpy bags? Looks a lot of material for a 40sqm patio base
Think my camera settings are off or the lens on this phone has a strange depth of field because everything looks smaller. They are the standard c800kg bulk bags. They do seem lower and wider than usual which is a good thing.I was happy for them to be single stacked as I can drag them round the back when I get to about 100kg.
Not kidding myself this will be easy but I like a tough workout and can take as long as I want to do this. Although the weather is set to turn so rain will turn.11t in to about 15+
Progress update.
Driveway bit filled. Preempting all the "doesn't look deep enough" "that's not compacted" comments. I cut a 100x100 fence post in to blocks and placed the in the area. Compacted around them then pulled them out and filled the holes. The area closest to the garage has a channel dug in for the drains (garage regularly floods in heavy rain). The side has a channel to cement the edging in.
Got the first lot of base in to the narrow area. I decided to build L shaped stairs over the s
tty looking old ones. So I've filled the sub base to a point where I can start laying the blocks for that. Then I'll add a bit more type 1 on top of this. Hopefully you can see it's already pretty deep compared to this 100mm blocks.
Still 8 bags of type 1 to go.
Driveway bit filled. Preempting all the "doesn't look deep enough" "that's not compacted" comments. I cut a 100x100 fence post in to blocks and placed the in the area. Compacted around them then pulled them out and filled the holes. The area closest to the garage has a channel dug in for the drains (garage regularly floods in heavy rain). The side has a channel to cement the edging in.
Got the first lot of base in to the narrow area. I decided to build L shaped stairs over the s
tty looking old ones. So I've filled the sub base to a point where I can start laying the blocks for that. Then I'll add a bit more type 1 on top of this. Hopefully you can see it's already pretty deep compared to this 100mm blocks.Still 8 bags of type 1 to go.
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