New kitten & older cats problem
Discussion
Sorry, long post, but I'm desperate for ideas. First of all, the stars of the story:
Zelda, 12 year old male
Geldof, 12 year old female, and Zelda's sister
Lexi, 14 week old female
The trouble I'm having is integrating them. Zelda is very affectionate, very placid, very soft. He's basically still a kitten inside. Geldof is the dominant one, and loves attention but only on her terms. She will whack Zelda if he gets a bit too close, but they do still cuddle together and generally get on really well. Both are very nervous cats to any one else other than me, though. Both have been house cats since I got them at 16 weeks old, both happy with that.
Lexi on her own is a loveable little bundle. Gives lots of love, plays nicely although needs to realise her teeth and claws are getting sharper! No problems with her at all. She's been segregated from the other two in her own room, although we did make a point of holding her so Z&G could see her when we brought her home. After a week or so we let her out around the house, strictly supervised, to see how they all got on.
At first it was fine. Geldof hissed and walked away in disgust (not unexpected, better than I'd hoped for!), Zelda had a sniff and when Lexi bent down to play, he joined in. They had a little gentle play fight which was brilliant, and then they went their separate ways. This has now caused a massive issue, as every time Lexi sees the other two she wants to play and chase them.
Zelda is terrified of her now, and as soon as he sees her he runs away, which Lexi sees as an invitation to chase him. That's a never ending cycle. Now when Lexi sees Geldof, she thinks that she can play with her as well. This leads to Lexi stalking Geldof, invariably round the food bowl and litter tray, and then when she pounces Geldof snaps. Geldof hisses, spits, raises a paw to strike, and then when Lexi doesn't get the hint, she'll give her a couple of whacks. That wouldn't be a problem in itself if Lexi then took the hint, but she doesn't. She backs off, then starts again. Geldof gets more and more aggravated by this, and will actively start to chase Lexi with the intention of whacking her first. Geldof has never hurt Lexi, but obviously I don't leave them doing this for long enough to see if/when any damage is done.
The other night I tried an experiment of leaving all three out over night to see if they'd settle. Lexi wouldn't, and kept chasing the other two so much it was causing them obvious distress, so I put Lexi back in her room where she spends the night and most of the day when I'm at work. Now bearing in mind we've had her 6 weeks ish now, and I've been letting Lexi out every evening to try and get used to the other two, I'm struggling to know where to go next. If Zelda and Geldof are upstairs in the bedroom sleeping (as they usually are) and Lexi is downstairs then that's fine, as Lexi just plays with us. However she'll then bolt upstairs and go mental with the other two.
I've tried the distraction thing, which only works briefly and then chasing the older cats is more fun apparently. I've tried a water pistol, which does spook her but it also spooks the other cats when the kitten runs. If I can keep Lexi's attention when the other cats are in the room then they're perfectly happy to let her wander around, even walk right past them. It's just when Lexi decides it's playtime, then she'll chase and harass them constantly and will not stop. Poor Zelda has taken to hiding on windowsills and bookcases where Lexi can't reach yet, but it won't be long.
Last night I left Lexi shut away for the whole evening, and the other two came down and were very affectionate all evening, so they're not bothered by her when she's not out. Where do I go from here? Am I doing things right? Is it just a case of letting them get on with it? I reckon is Zelda just whacked back once then Lexi might back off, or if Geldof *really* gave her a thump then she might think twice, but all I see at the moment is two stressed older cats and one hyperactive kitten who desperately wants some feline attention
Zelda, 12 year old male
Geldof, 12 year old female, and Zelda's sister
Lexi, 14 week old female
The trouble I'm having is integrating them. Zelda is very affectionate, very placid, very soft. He's basically still a kitten inside. Geldof is the dominant one, and loves attention but only on her terms. She will whack Zelda if he gets a bit too close, but they do still cuddle together and generally get on really well. Both are very nervous cats to any one else other than me, though. Both have been house cats since I got them at 16 weeks old, both happy with that.
Lexi on her own is a loveable little bundle. Gives lots of love, plays nicely although needs to realise her teeth and claws are getting sharper! No problems with her at all. She's been segregated from the other two in her own room, although we did make a point of holding her so Z&G could see her when we brought her home. After a week or so we let her out around the house, strictly supervised, to see how they all got on.
At first it was fine. Geldof hissed and walked away in disgust (not unexpected, better than I'd hoped for!), Zelda had a sniff and when Lexi bent down to play, he joined in. They had a little gentle play fight which was brilliant, and then they went their separate ways. This has now caused a massive issue, as every time Lexi sees the other two she wants to play and chase them.
Zelda is terrified of her now, and as soon as he sees her he runs away, which Lexi sees as an invitation to chase him. That's a never ending cycle. Now when Lexi sees Geldof, she thinks that she can play with her as well. This leads to Lexi stalking Geldof, invariably round the food bowl and litter tray, and then when she pounces Geldof snaps. Geldof hisses, spits, raises a paw to strike, and then when Lexi doesn't get the hint, she'll give her a couple of whacks. That wouldn't be a problem in itself if Lexi then took the hint, but she doesn't. She backs off, then starts again. Geldof gets more and more aggravated by this, and will actively start to chase Lexi with the intention of whacking her first. Geldof has never hurt Lexi, but obviously I don't leave them doing this for long enough to see if/when any damage is done.
The other night I tried an experiment of leaving all three out over night to see if they'd settle. Lexi wouldn't, and kept chasing the other two so much it was causing them obvious distress, so I put Lexi back in her room where she spends the night and most of the day when I'm at work. Now bearing in mind we've had her 6 weeks ish now, and I've been letting Lexi out every evening to try and get used to the other two, I'm struggling to know where to go next. If Zelda and Geldof are upstairs in the bedroom sleeping (as they usually are) and Lexi is downstairs then that's fine, as Lexi just plays with us. However she'll then bolt upstairs and go mental with the other two.
I've tried the distraction thing, which only works briefly and then chasing the older cats is more fun apparently. I've tried a water pistol, which does spook her but it also spooks the other cats when the kitten runs. If I can keep Lexi's attention when the other cats are in the room then they're perfectly happy to let her wander around, even walk right past them. It's just when Lexi decides it's playtime, then she'll chase and harass them constantly and will not stop. Poor Zelda has taken to hiding on windowsills and bookcases where Lexi can't reach yet, but it won't be long.
Last night I left Lexi shut away for the whole evening, and the other two came down and were very affectionate all evening, so they're not bothered by her when she's not out. Where do I go from here? Am I doing things right? Is it just a case of letting them get on with it? I reckon is Zelda just whacked back once then Lexi might back off, or if Geldof *really* gave her a thump then she might think twice, but all I see at the moment is two stressed older cats and one hyperactive kitten who desperately wants some feline attention
Funny, I was actually starting to think that I should've got two kittens instead of the one. We did have pick of the litter, could actually have had two as well. Oh well!
Travel baby gate is a good idea, I'll give that a go. Her room is at the end of the house which the cats don't go to very often, but maybe they will if they can see her? Worth a punt at least.
Thanks Ali
Travel baby gate is a good idea, I'll give that a go. Her room is at the end of the house which the cats don't go to very often, but maybe they will if they can see her? Worth a punt at least.
Thanks Ali
bexVN said:
Just out of interest what made you get a kitten?
Good question. Both my wife and I love cats, but our previous house was only big enough for the two we had. We moved house to a much larger place in Jan, and we said once we'd made sure the two existing cats were okay with the move and not having any issues, we'd love to get another one. We weren't particularly planning it for now, but one of Jo's work colleagues ended up with a litter of four that needed homing so we were offered one of those.Tbh, I'd happily be Crazy Cat Man given half a chance!
Storrsy, that's the cutest pic I've seen for ages, I'd love it for our ones to get that close
Not quite as simple as putting them all in the same room sadly, Geldof hates being picked up and I don't think that she'd enjoyed being herded into a room
Very odd though last night, we had family round and there was one point that both Lexi and Geldof were in the same room. Lexi sauntered over, I expected fireworks, but there was a bit of sniffing + a half leap back from Lexi, then she wandered off and let Geldof be. No hissing, no chasing, no whacking. Zelda came down too but he scarpered when he realised there were strangers in the room.So frustrating, one minute they're being mental and one minute they're fine. I guess that's part of the attraction though, the unpredictability of cats.
Thanks Bex, good link
I tried the scent trick using a sock, rubbed on them and then placed near the food bowls which initially seemed to be helping, but I think they're now past the smell thing sadly. If I could just make the kitten less of an irritating knobhead, I'm sure things will be fine! Less stalking would be a start, if nothing else.
Making them all eat at the same time is a good idea, I might have to give that one a go. Sadly I missed the delivery of the baby gates today, hopefully they'll try again tomorrow as I'm keen to see if that makes a difference.
I tried the scent trick using a sock, rubbed on them and then placed near the food bowls which initially seemed to be helping, but I think they're now past the smell thing sadly. If I could just make the kitten less of an irritating knobhead, I'm sure things will be fine! Less stalking would be a start, if nothing else.
Making them all eat at the same time is a good idea, I might have to give that one a go. Sadly I missed the delivery of the baby gates today, hopefully they'll try again tomorrow as I'm keen to see if that makes a difference.
Yes, she's supposed to be the other side of those! Clever little sod
I need to put something up to stop her climbing over, maybe just some cardboard taped to the doorframe would do it I think. However, in the past few days we've had a bit of a breakthrough in that Lexi and Geldof seem to be vaguely tolerating each other now. Lexi still wants to play, but gets it now when Geldof keeps hitting her that she should probably leave the bigger cat alone. They've been eating near each other and sitting closer, which is a huge improvement.
Sadly Zelda has a real complex now, and it's getting worse. Lexi has learnt how to jump up to his safe window spot, so he has nowhere to hide now and he's getting very stressed. I just don't know how to make Lexi stop chasing him every single time, nothing works: Toy throwing, treats, claps, water pistol, nothing. All they do is scare Zelda, so he runs off causing her to chase him. So frustrating!
I do agree it's a boredom thing Ali, and looking back two kittens would've been best but I don't really want to introduce another one now for fear of resetting any progress we have made. If we really can't succeed, I'd rather not have to re home two kittens
Lexi was out all day yesterday and she did settle in the afternoon, still very interested when Z&G came down but only looking at from a distance. If I could just get through one night with her out, so she knows she's not going to be shut away again, im sure things would be okay.
I'll try the Feliway etc stuff next, thanks Bex. I may try shutting Zelda away downstairs overnight, and see if he's okay with that for a couple of nights (it's where he sleeps anyway). I just want to be careful that I don't end up punishing him for her faults. If only I hadn't had his balls cut off all those years ago, he might not be such a wimp
Lexi was out all day yesterday and she did settle in the afternoon, still very interested when Z&G came down but only looking at from a distance. If I could just get through one night with her out, so she knows she's not going to be shut away again, im sure things would be okay.
I'll try the Feliway etc stuff next, thanks Bex. I may try shutting Zelda away downstairs overnight, and see if he's okay with that for a couple of nights (it's where he sleeps anyway). I just want to be careful that I don't end up punishing him for her faults. If only I hadn't had his balls cut off all those years ago, he might not be such a wimp
I'll try all of those, I had no idea you could combine them, thanks! Luckily there's a vets on the way home, so I'll stop in there tonight.
I guess the trouble with house cats is that they can't just go out for some safety, never been an issue before.
Thank you so much for your help so far, all five of us here really appreciate it
I guess the trouble with house cats is that they can't just go out for some safety, never been an issue before.
Thank you so much for your help so far, all five of us here really appreciate it
No difference last night, although kitten was a little bit too excitable so she went for a time out in her room. She did walk round the back of one sofa where she found Zelda happily asleep in the sun, which neither of them were expecting so not surprisingly he ran away again. She didn't chase though, so maybe that's good? I dunno, I'll take anything right now.
Quick update, good news too
It now seems like the Lexi and Geldof thing is sorted. They're fine around each other until Lexi starts getting a bit too close, but a quick whack sorts it. Lexi is bothering her much less because of this, so I think she's learnt that Geldof doesn't do playing
I've tried feeding them all in the same place at the same time in the morning recently, the thinking being that they're all too hungry to worry about fighting. Seems to be working, Zelly will now eat at least some of his food even if Lexi is close to him, and whilst he does still runaway sometimes it's much better. This is in the room with the Feliway in.
He's growing some balls too, as he's taken to giving a whack as well, which I'm happy about as I now know that Lexi understands what that means. It's still not perfect, and I'm still concerned, but it's a step forward if nothing else
It now seems like the Lexi and Geldof thing is sorted. They're fine around each other until Lexi starts getting a bit too close, but a quick whack sorts it. Lexi is bothering her much less because of this, so I think she's learnt that Geldof doesn't do playing
I've tried feeding them all in the same place at the same time in the morning recently, the thinking being that they're all too hungry to worry about fighting. Seems to be working, Zelly will now eat at least some of his food even if Lexi is close to him, and whilst he does still runaway sometimes it's much better. This is in the room with the Feliway in.
He's growing some balls too, as he's taken to giving a whack as well, which I'm happy about as I now know that Lexi understands what that means. It's still not perfect, and I'm still concerned, but it's a step forward if nothing else
Painful night last night
We decided to leave Lexi out all night if possible, to see how long it took her to settle down and where she sleeps. Turns out, she never does settle. All night she was an absolute pain, either attacking bedmice or chasing the other two upstairs, downstairs, under the bed, everywhere. Geldof sorted herself out after a while as she just turned up the aggression which worked out nicely (they were sat opposite each other on the window sill this morning), but Zelda just sat up high and refused to come down. Poor little bugger wasn't happy.
I had pretty much zero sleep because of this, the other half disappeared to the spare room and shut the door so she could get some shut-eye. Lexi has gone back into her room for today, I don't think I'll let her out tonight overnight either to give Z&G a break again. One step forward, two back and all that.
Just thought I'd give a quick update, I know we'll get there but it's hard work! I love them to pieces and I'm determined to keep trying until they're all friends.
We decided to leave Lexi out all night if possible, to see how long it took her to settle down and where she sleeps. Turns out, she never does settle. All night she was an absolute pain, either attacking bedmice or chasing the other two upstairs, downstairs, under the bed, everywhere. Geldof sorted herself out after a while as she just turned up the aggression which worked out nicely (they were sat opposite each other on the window sill this morning), but Zelda just sat up high and refused to come down. Poor little bugger wasn't happy.
I had pretty much zero sleep because of this, the other half disappeared to the spare room and shut the door so she could get some shut-eye. Lexi has gone back into her room for today, I don't think I'll let her out tonight overnight either to give Z&G a break again. One step forward, two back and all that.
Just thought I'd give a quick update, I know we'll get there but it's hard work! I love them to pieces and I'm determined to keep trying until they're all friends.
The older ones only tolerate each other anyway, so I'd be happy with that
When I say locked away, I don't mean that she has nothing: Either me or the other half is in with her playing for company. The only time we're not there is during the night and for a few hours during the day between when working patterns (only a few hours). She has plenty of toys and places to jump and climb, it's a good size room
Geldof might not play much, but Zelda certainly likes to play a lot of the time. He'll still play with Da Bird until he's panting for breath, even now. That's why it's even more galling that those two don't seem to get on just yet, as deep down I know he's as keen to play as she is.
When I say locked away, I don't mean that she has nothing: Either me or the other half is in with her playing for company. The only time we're not there is during the night and for a few hours during the day between when working patterns (only a few hours). She has plenty of toys and places to jump and climb, it's a good size room
Geldof might not play much, but Zelda certainly likes to play a lot of the time. He'll still play with Da Bird until he's panting for breath, even now. That's why it's even more galling that those two don't seem to get on just yet, as deep down I know he's as keen to play as she is.
Update with some progress:
They were playing together for about 20 mins before Zelda turned his back for one second and Lexi decided that it would make the perfect place to jump onto, but there's definitely progress here!
Sadly things have been a bit awkward with Geldof, as she was diagnosed with cancer on her saliva gland which was removed on Monday. She's in the collar of shame atm, and understandably very quiet so we've made sure to keep her and Lexi away from each other until she's healed a bit more. It was massively touch and go as to whether Geldof would survive, and the room got very dusty when I took her down to the vets for the op and even more dusty when I got the news that she was going to be okay. Very, very dusty.
They were playing together for about 20 mins before Zelda turned his back for one second and Lexi decided that it would make the perfect place to jump onto, but there's definitely progress here!
Sadly things have been a bit awkward with Geldof, as she was diagnosed with cancer on her saliva gland which was removed on Monday. She's in the collar of shame atm, and understandably very quiet so we've made sure to keep her and Lexi away from each other until she's healed a bit more. It was massively touch and go as to whether Geldof would survive, and the room got very dusty when I took her down to the vets for the op and even more dusty when I got the news that she was going to be okay. Very, very dusty.
They are sending it off, yes. They also did a quick x-ray of the chest area too but it didn't look like the cancer had spread, so we're crossing fingers for now.
I think she might be in the collar for a while as she's already desperate to scratch the wound, even while it must be so painful still, so I'll look into those Buster collars now, thanks
I think she might be in the collar for a while as she's already desperate to scratch the wound, even while it must be so painful still, so I'll look into those Buster collars now, thanks
Moar updates!
Geldof's tumour sadly is a malignant one, so she's starting her course of chemo tomorrow. I know it's more palliative than anything, but I figure it's worth a go if it gives us more time together. I'm actually okay with it, as I thought I'd never see her again after the last op so every day I get now is a bonus and I will treat it as such. She's fine in herself too, which is nice to see.
As far as the kitten/cat integration goes, I think we're doing well! We left Lexi out all night again Saturday night, and once again it was horrendous with her chasing the other two all night and waking me and SWMBO up, but we persevered. Lexi was then very dozy all day Sunday, and last night she left Geldof alone to sleep in her bed and Zelda to sleep on whatever windowsill he wanted. No hissing, no chasing, it was all fine.
Just now we had all three of them downstairs, all in the same room, doing their own thing but no chasing at all. Zel was watching other cats out of the back door window, Gel was munching on her food and Lexi flitted between jumping in and out of a box and going to sit next to the other two. Sure, there was a bit of hissing at times, but Zel stood his ground and Lexi left him alone. It was so lovely to have all three of them chilling out with us
Hopefully we've turned a corner now, but we'll just have to wait and see.
Geldof's tumour sadly is a malignant one, so she's starting her course of chemo tomorrow. I know it's more palliative than anything, but I figure it's worth a go if it gives us more time together. I'm actually okay with it, as I thought I'd never see her again after the last op so every day I get now is a bonus and I will treat it as such. She's fine in herself too, which is nice to see.
As far as the kitten/cat integration goes, I think we're doing well! We left Lexi out all night again Saturday night, and once again it was horrendous with her chasing the other two all night and waking me and SWMBO up, but we persevered. Lexi was then very dozy all day Sunday, and last night she left Geldof alone to sleep in her bed and Zelda to sleep on whatever windowsill he wanted. No hissing, no chasing, it was all fine.
Just now we had all three of them downstairs, all in the same room, doing their own thing but no chasing at all. Zel was watching other cats out of the back door window, Gel was munching on her food and Lexi flitted between jumping in and out of a box and going to sit next to the other two. Sure, there was a bit of hissing at times, but Zel stood his ground and Lexi left him alone. It was so lovely to have all three of them chilling out with us
Hopefully we've turned a corner now, but we'll just have to wait and see.
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