Dog breeder - Puppy returned - SOGA?

[LimaDelta]

Last Sunday we picked up a Lab puppy from a reputable(!) breeder in the N Yorks area. We took this puppy home and in the next four days it twice bit our 3yo daughter on the face (going after her hair I suspect). Fortunately no harm was done, but it was enough for us to rethink the puppy idea for a couple of years. So we decided to do the right thing and return the dog to the breeder.

The breeder contract stated that we could not resell the puppy, and that if returned within 72 hours we would receive a full refund. Since this was after the 72 hours I was told that we would receive "maybe a couple of hundred pounds" (vs 850GBP paid) as the puppy could not now be resold and she would have to keep it.

Imagine our surprise when the puppy was back on Pets4Homes within 24hours!

So the question is - are we entitled to any refund? Is the puppy still our property even though it was returned? Do we have any legal recourse to recover our costs as she has lied and is reselling it?

This has left us with a strong mistrust of breeders now and perhaps any future animal will not be returned - if it had just gone missing at least we would have been refunded in full from the insurers! (only joking, but you get my point!). Surely if the breeders cared about the animals welfare they would incentivise the return and re-homing!

Anyway, a bit annoyed, we still know returning him was the right decision four our family, just annoyed at being lied to.

Any advice?

[LimaDelta]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I understand that you did the right thing for the right reasons but you should chalk the £650 down to experience

Which to be honest I would have been quite happy to do had she not lied about not reselling him!

[LimaDelta]

Glasgowrob said:

in regards to your refund did you sign a puppy contract with the breeder if so what does it state?

As above, full refund before 72 hours, none after as' puppy could not be re-sold'. Day later it was advertised for sale.

[LimaDelta]

CAPP0 said:

Is it just me who's also troubled by the thread title referring to the Sale of Goods Act?

He's a living being, not a washing machine.

FWIW, animals are covered by the Sale of Goods Act, whether or not you find the terminology distasteful.

[LimaDelta]

Gandahar said:

LimaDelta said:

CAPP0 said:

Is it just me who's also troubled by the thread title referring to the Sale of Goods Act?

He's a living being, not a washing machine.

FWIW, animals are covered by the Sale of Goods Act, whether or not you find the terminology distasteful.

What specific clause would you claim on?

I don't know, I'm a Yachtie, not a contact law expert. However even a cursory Google search indicates they are indeed covered.

Probably does not apply here, unless the breeders claim that the puppy was socialised with young children was disingenuous. Agree more down to training and a moot point really at 8 weeks.

As above though, we are fully aware a dog requires training and supervision, I'm happy to write off the £850 as a learning experience (never deal with puppy farmers again!) but resent being lied to, that's all.

[LimaDelta]

Loving the PH 'off topic bingo' on this thread, so far we've had: leased audi, derision of social media, not reading the OP,

As far as time is concerned, I am lucky enough to be able to afford to work only 6 months of the year and my wife is a full time mum/part time farmer so there was no issue there.

As I said earlier, I didn't want to take the risk of having to take my 3yo to A&E with facial lacerations. Happy for it to be a life lesson, and happy never to own another furry little st eater. The point of the thread was to highlight the lying puppy farmer in Northallerton.

[LimaDelta]

LordHaveMurci said:

LimaDelta said:

happy never to own another furry little st eater.

That sums it up really.

Not exactly the most endearing feature is it? Unbelievably some people then let the puppy lick thier faces!

I do understand Labs are particularly succeptible to coprophagia.

[LimaDelta]

LordHaveMurci said:

LimaDelta said:

LordHaveMurci said:

LimaDelta said:

happy never to own another furry little st eater.

That sums it up really.

Not exactly the most endearing feature is it? Unbelievably some people then let the puppy lick thier faces!

I do understand Labs are particularly succeptible to coprophagia.

I might have worked out why it was biting then...

Do tell...

[LimaDelta]

boyse7en said:

I don't really understand why though? He hasn't done anything that should raise the ire of animal lovers IMO. It was a simple question about the ethics of the breeder "no refund yet resell" policy.

Quite. The same posters would no doubt be just as critical had we chosen to keep the pup and something had happened to one of our children. I am happy to admit ignorance when it comes to pet dogs, my experience is with them purely as working animals. It was not an easy decision return him, especially having to explain it to two young children, but life is about making difficult decisions and realising when a mistake has been made.

It seems that dog owners are a bit of a precious lot.

[LimaDelta]

Charlie Hoskins said:

You have experience of dogs as working animals ? Do tell us more...

Not my own (obviously), but mainly for finding wounded deer (thankfully very rarely used) when stalking.

Also have a couple of friends with gun dogs of various flavours.

ETA:

My point is - my experience has been based on trained and (fairly) well behaved adult dogs, not excitable bity puppies.

Edited by LimaDelta on Friday 7th July 15:32

[LimaDelta]

The Spruce goose said:

I'm not sure dog owners are precious lot, i think the crux was seeing a pet as a commodity, for which quite a few disagreed with your viewpoint.

Then surely breeders should just give them away?

[LimaDelta]

LordHaveMurci said:

LimaDelta said:

Not my own (obviously), but mainly for finding wounded deer (thankfully very rarely used) when stalking.

Also have a couple of friends with gun dogs of various flavours.

ETA:

My point is - my experience has been based on trained and (fairly) well behaved adult dogs, not excitable bity puppies.

Edited by LimaDelta on Friday 7th July 15:32

My dog is (now) a well trained gun dog breed, rescued at 11mths old. My previous dog of 14yrs was a well trained working gun dog.

Does it make me precious being concerned about animal welfare? Shelters are full of animals because of people that bought one on a whim thinking (or not) that it would be a great idea.

Amazing that with all your experience of working animals that you never once thought a puppy might be hard work.

I don't believe that i said the hard work was an issue, more that it twice bit my 3 yo on the face.

[LimaDelta]

Charlie Hoskins said:

LimaDelta said:

LordHaveMurci said:

LimaDelta said:

Not my own (obviously), but mainly for finding wounded deer (thankfully very rarely used) when stalking.

Also have a couple of friends with gun dogs of various flavours.

ETA:

My point is - my experience has been based on trained and (fairly) well behaved adult dogs, not excitable bity puppies.

Edited by LimaDelta on Friday 7th July 15:32

My dog is (now) a well trained gun dog breed, rescued at 11mths old. My previous dog of 14yrs was a well trained working gun dog.

Does it make me precious being concerned about animal welfare? Shelters are full of animals because of people that bought one on a whim thinking (or not) that it would be a great idea.

Amazing that with all your experience of working animals that you never once thought a puppy might be hard work.

I don't believe that i said the hard work was an issue, more that it twice bit my 3 yo on the face.

Because, face it, as an owner you did a poor job.

Perhaps, but as we only had it for four days, I'm not sure we had such a huge influence on it's behaviour. Also, given the choice I'd rather not have a dog, than have one which needs to be trained not to bite children on the face. Not too difficult to grasp, is it?

As an owner we did what we needed to and made the responsible decision to remove the puppy from our lives, rather than risk living with the consequences of our youngest being scarred for life. A small risk perhaps, but it does happen.

Short of reading the usual books (Pippa Mattinson Happy Puppy Handbook), browsing the Labrador forums and talking to other owners, how would you suggest one should prepare oneself for puppy ownership? How long do you think I should have given it? How many bites to your childs face were tolerable when you trained your puppies?

[LimaDelta]

ReaderScars said:

LimaDelta said:

facial lacerations... furry little st eater... The point of the thread was to highlight the lying puppy farmer in Northallerton.

It's done more than that. You don't seem the sort of person who should have dogs so please don't 'leave it a couple of years', perhaps just forget about it entirely.

Indeed, we probably will. Wouldn't give another penny to a lying puppy farmer.

[LimaDelta]

Charlie Hoskins said:

^^^You beat me to it.
Just as there are people who shouldn't be behind the wheel or have children, there are those who are not compatible with animals.
You went to a puppy farmer !!! I see....

Oh, we have plenty of animals here, cats and hens mainly. All are happy and healthy and enjoy playing in the gardens with the children. Can't see there being a dog in the picture anymore though. Certainly not while the kids are still so young.

[LimaDelta]

The Spruce goose said:

LimaDelta said:

. Certainly not while the kids are still so young.

Puppies do need a lot of time and attention. lets be honest 4 days would never be enough to work out if it would work, but at least the puppy will be re homed.

What?!? A rational response?