'No Pull Harness' How do they work?

[King Herald]

Our dogs are great, but a pain on the lead, heavy pull and they both like to meet and greet anything they see in the road, dog, cat, paper bag, plastic cup etc.

We are using head collars on both of them, which work to a degree, but when they get wound up and want to go see a new friend, they are still a ball ache to control. No barking or growling, just eager to meet.

I have heard about Julius K9 harnesses and was wondering if they are as good as the ads make out. Any experience anybody?

We are off to see a dog behaviourist (a trainer, as they were called in the good old sensible days) this week some time, so that may sort the problem out, hopefully, but if not we may need something else.

[King Herald]

juice said:

When you say a head collar, do you mean a figure of 8 or something else ?

It is strap thing that goes round the muzzle and also round the neck, and you attach the lead underneath so when they pull it steers their head to one side. It reduces pulling by about 50% with both our dogs, but they still get a bit cheeky when they see other dogs/cats.

[King Herald]

crashley said:

My wife uses this for our Boxer: http://store.intl.petsafe.net/en-gb/easy-walk-harn...

She's tried a few and that seems to be the most successful; it attaches as per the photos and essentially whenever he pulls it turns him around, so he gives up pulling and walks like when he's with me.

That looks a lot like the k9 decide, except the k9 has a handle built into the back of it.

[King Herald]

I saw those in the pet shop, but I simply cannot work out how they 'stop pulling instantly'.

If a dog will pull hard even when a choker collar is threatening to asphyxiate him, how can a simple cheat harness work? It says something about lifting and separating, but sounds more like a cross your heart bra.

What is the actual secret of that device?

[King Herald]

Thanks. I think we are lucky to have found them and they are lucky to have us, so mutually beneficial.

As we speak, I am waiting for a call back from a dog 'behaviourist' I phoned last week. She is fairly local but she was away until today, and told me she'd call back.

Both dogs are great in all respects, house trained, friendly, harmless, docile and happy, and the issue with other dogs is there only real flaw. The odd thing is there is no aggression, no barking, no snarling.

[King Herald]

garythesign said:

I don't think I have added anything to the thread!

!

I rarely do myself.

LordHaveMurci said:

This is definitely the way forward.

Not a GSD but our rescue spaniel pulled like mad when we got him 3mths ago, he walked on a loose lead for our 13yr old lad last night (not fussed about perfect heel).

It took some time & patience & I appreciate you have bigger dogs & twice as many but it pays off in other ways too when you have all round well trained dogs

I have tried all the Dog Whisperer stuff that magically transforms a dog with a mere change of wrist grip, tug of the lead, or a slight poke with the fingers in the neck.....didn't work, for some reason....

I have improved him a lot, as he used to leap around like a puppy sniffing everything, jumping left and right, spinning round and heading the opposite direction. Quite painful when a 100 lb dog wrenches your shoulder backwards suddenly.

Now I have started keeping him on a shorter lead. A quick NO and a couple of tugs on the lead and he learned literally in one walk not to stick his nose into everything.

But when he sees another dog, car, paperbag, pigeon......

My big handsome buddy.

[King Herald]

Ken Figenus said:

Lots of that in it mate. You never EVER hurt them but a bit of slight snap of discomfort with a special long stretchy lead followed by a big walkaround to heel + command works. Its brilliantly simple once you know . I could walk my OES off the lead in Kingston on a pavement after that. No one was more surprised than me! But you see other dogs doing it so it could be you too!

I'm hoping we can learn something like that then, I really don't want to be doing multiple lessons and slowly persuading them to change their ways. I doubt dog trainers are cheap.

The tugs on the lead and loud sharp 'NO' seem to have cured his erratic aggressive sniffing, so I guess just finding the technique is the key.

[King Herald]

DonkeyApple said:

There's no alpha animal to control them. Use the other end of their lead to simulate a nip on the arse from the pack leader. Dogs need to be trained. Pack leader dogs in the wild don't write letters of complaint, don't hire therapists, don't hold interventions etc etc. They simply give the lower ranking dog a good, solid nip and train them to behave. It takes more effort when they are older but it's easy enough to do and unlike the more basic dog to dog method you can make it far less harsh by using rewards for good behaviour. Also, if you have two dogs then just take one out at a time and train it to do what you want. Trying to train both simultaneously will just send you mad with no positive result to show for it. Take a dog out, when it starts to misbehave, give it a correction, make it sit down and then give it a treat for being good. Then go and do the same with the other one until both are retrained and you can then attempt to take them both out together. Good luck. It's easy to do all it takes is proper effort.

I keep hearing so much about how you should never punish your dog, or hit them, poke them etc, as you'll hurt their sensitive nature.... I've never been averse to a good slap across their arse if they really get out of order, but have been a bit wary doing it in public in case some do-good er gets all bent out of shape.

We started off walking them together, but some sort of sibling rivalry made it a pain in the neck, really frustrating, they both want to be in front, but get too far in front and they want to wait for the other. If one sniffs something, the other desperately has to dive in and see what it is etc.

Now we always go separately.

First training session is booked for next week, for Blue, and the next available slot for Sky is two weeks later. Between now and then I shall try a little bum cracking with my lead.

[King Herald]

We have started today. Daughter and I have been trying out commands in the back garden, basis sit and stay stuff, so we will hopefully continue that when we go for the walks later tonight.

I shall try him without the head collar just the long lead, and try out what you have detailed, see how he responds.

[King Herald]

My daughter was telling me about the tight lead pulling thing. Trouble with ours is no matter how many times we tug the lead, or pull them back to get some slack, they simply walk forward and take it up again.

When Blue has the head collar on I will crack the chain along his back smartly and that will slow him down a bit. It doesn't work with the road lead, no weight in it. The chain is pretty thin, but he can feel and hear it.

Moorx, there will always be changes in theory I guess. The pack leader thing seems to work with some people, but change is good, if it works.

[King Herald]

Buzz84 said:

We have stop pull harnesses for both our dogs (A Malamute/GSD Cross and a JR cross) and find that they work well and make a big difference to when we take them out just clipped onto their collars.

The ones we have are: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0062ME8WG/ref=cm_sw_r...

Cheap enough to give it a try really

After a session at the dog trainers we bought a couple of harnesses very similar to these. They also have the lead attachment ring down the front too, which was what the trainer advised.

I was amazed the difference when I first walked my big guy with it on, he just plodded along, no pull at all.


But it didn't last........

By the time we were halfway into our usual 60 minutes he was pulling along like he normally does. I have since tried attaching the leads to both top and bottom loops, and if he pulls I put tension on the lower ring and it sorts of upsets his pace a bit, slowing him down.

Our session with the trainer was, er interesting, trying to teach him not to react to other animals. It involved a toy dog, fairly realistic, and practising distracting their attention from it. I do think my guy cottoned on that it was not a real dog fairly early, so it didn't really work as we hoped.

And having to say "leave it" in a high pitched sort of squeak doesn't really appeal when out on the streets with a 50 kg macho looking Alsatian. I tone it down to a more manly gruff level.

Which he still totally ignores when he gets one on........

Edited by King Herald on Wednesday 23 August 08:47

[King Herald]

Head collar went back on tonight, I have given up training Blue, my giant lovable five year old puppy.

We did two hour- long professional training sessions, lots and lots and lots of stopping, "no pulling", pulling the dog back a bit, and carrying on, repeatedly....

And I did it when out with the dog myself, a thousand times. No different. He just glances back to see what is up, then inside four of five paces he is back leaning into the lead.

I've tried the full harness, the choker lead, tried tugging the lead hard every time he pulled. No difference.

So now he is back in the head collar, and we get along fine. I officially give up as a dog trainer.

[King Herald]

DonkeyApple said:

That's a shame as Alsatians can still be trained when they are old. Smart dogs and very trainable. And personally, when it comes to dogs in public I do feel that their owners have a responsibility to have them fully under control.

He is as harmless as the day is long, don't think I have ever seen him growl or bark. The only problem is that he is big and strong and likes to lean into the lead.

Anout 75% of dogs I see get pretty unruly as they come past, usually barking, scrabbling or growling, but Blue very rarely does that now. Just the fact he is 46 kg makes him a chore to walk. I don't think he knows his own strength.

[King Herald]

I've tried all the above techniques. Suddenly changing direction when he gets a bit 'unruly' has calmed him down from bounding around. He used to switch back and forth sniffing in front, suddenly bound over in front of me to sniff something there, then he would do a 180 and rush off behind me etc.

The 'sudden heavy dead weight at the end of the lead' trick doesn't work too well when the dog is half your own body weight. He tweaked my shoulder painfully a couple of times in early days. I've managed to get him out of that behaviour almost completely, but he forgets occasionally.

I tried the treats technique, but he has no interest in food, snacks or anything when we are out.

He reminds me of a young Scooby Doo at times, dopey, dumbo, a bit thick , but so sweet.

[King Herald]

LordHaveMurci said:

a said:

Walk dog at brisk pace with a long-ish lead (6ft), as soon as snout passes your leg sharply turn around and walk briskly the other way. Even a stubborn dog will only get jolted a few times before learning.

This pretty much worked for our rescue sprocker, he was on a figure 8 lead when we got him at 12mths old, he walks to heel off lead now (just!) & we've only had him 5mths so he'll get better yet

The only problem here is my dog is ahead of me from the minute we leave the house. I always make sure I go in and out of the door first, something I was told long ago. But as soon as he is clear of the door he takes up station in front. If I stop, he stops, he is not struggling to get away, scrabbling for freedom, like many dogs I have walked at the rescue kennels, just strong.

Trying to get him behind me is probably impossible. Not even sure I want him trailing behind actually.

[King Herald]

Ken Figenus said:

The above type techniques worked really well for me. Did it on a mates tuggy Spaniel that she was tearing her hair out about - was to heel in 5 mins. My Dalmatian has been the trickiest ever - his instinct is reconnaissance with nose to the ground. He walks to heel for me but always needs a snap on the lead and the long walkaround to heel when we first exit the drive.

Try a long springy lead with something that will make a noise when you snap it the second he takes up all slack when it goes tense (hold loop in right hand and allow slack to slip through left hand) . They will usually stop then. Walk them around you to your left side and say heel. Repeat in exactly the same way - allow them to go ahead and the second the lead is tense snap it. Doesn't hurt them at all - added noise/rattle makes it far more effective. I just say the 'h' of heel now when he instinctively tries to hunt out a smell and he pauses and goes back to heel - never ahead of you.

Looked for the lead and found this: https://www.doglistener.co.uk/behavioural/walking_... has jangles!

I’ll check out the lead, but I have my doubts he will suddenly change the habit of a lifetime because of a snapping sound. I’ve tried very sharp tugs repeatedly, they affect him, he slows, but then comes back up to speed in a few paces. I don’t see how noise will change that mentality.

LordHaveMurci said:

King Herald said:

Trying to get him behind me is probably impossible. Not even sure I want him trailing behind actually.

You don't want them behind you, you want them to heel.

I nearly lost patience with our spaniel, he pulled badly & I started to think I was never going to get through to him, it was almost like he was testing me because very shortly after he 'got it' and has been pretty good ever since.

Well, he has to be behind me if I am supposed to turn round sharply as soon as his snout passes my leg, surely?

[King Herald]

a said:

If he's in front of you and you turn around he'll be behind you

Job done, I can walk up and down the drive for an hour.

[King Herald]

phil-sti said:

Interesting article but I’m not listening to someone who has written an article called “giddy up, the differences between dogs and horses”

I think that positive reinforcement and dominance both have a hand in training a dog, mine responds to a bit of both. When he walks in front of me I kick him in the balls, he now walks behind me because I can’t kick him in the balls from the front ??

Mine was neutered at about ten minutes old. Hence nothing to kick.

And his brain does not seem to have developed from that time on, I fear. The five year old puppy.