Dangerous Dog Next Door!

[Marky Mark88]

Hello,



I'm not sure if this post is in the correct section so Mods please feel free to move if necessary!



We bought our first home (a semi-detached property) in July 2015. We met our neighbour on the first day we moved in and she seemed pleasant enough, if a little bit 'crazy.' We believe she owns 3 dogs, 2 of what we thought were large Staffordshire Bull Terriers and one smaller Yorkshire Terrier type dog. She has always had problems with the 2 'Staffys' escaping from her garden where they manage to jump the fence. Recently they have not managed to get out so much as she has 'extended' the fence on her side of the property with bits of plywood and trellis etc. However last Thursday one of the 'Staffys' jumped over the 6ft fence dividing our back gardens and got into our back garden. A friend of ours was doing work on our house and our dog was in the garden, but luckily he got him in and she came round and collected her dog and took it back. Obviously this was a huge concern for us as we really don't like the 2 'Staffys.' My wife witnessed them tear a cat apart that went into her back garden and the owner herself has also been attacked by them previously.



Fast-forward to lastnight and my wife goes round to speak to her about how the dog got over the fence. Apparently there is a large concrete bench on her side that the 'Staffy' got onto and then jumped over. It was at this point that our neighbour admitted she was worried also, as her 'certificate' states that if the dog escapes then it will be put down. To me that can only mean one thing, that it's a Pit Bull Terrier. Not long after we moved in we did see the police take at least one of the dogs away and my neighbour has mentioned before that they had been 'tested.' We assumed that they had been identified as a breed that isn't banned in the UK and thought no more of it.



What options do we have here? The dogs never get walked and the owner did spend some time in a psychiatric unit about 12 months ago. To me she isn't mentally fit to own a dog of this nature. I also believe the property is Housing Association so surely they would have something to say about this? We don't want to fall out with our neighbour as it will make things awkward, but she is genuinely oblivious to the potential timebomb that she has running around (and escaping from) her garden.



For us it's probably a case of the dog goes or we go, we are looking to start a family and we would never feel safe raising a family with an unsecured banned dog living next door.



Many thanks for any advice anyone can give.



Cheers!

[Marky Mark88]

HappyMidget said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

With an inherent propensity for violence bred into it over many generations. No amount of cuddles will alter its DNA.

Complete and utter bks.


OP: Is the dog actually dangerous or are you just typing it based on your misconceptions due to breed? Do they actually show any sign of aggressiveness? I am guessing not if they have been exempted. Yes, the fence jumping needs to be sorted out, but do not assume they are dangerous.

As said in the original post, my wife has seen the 2 of them rip a cat apart and one of them (not sure which) has attacked the owner when she tried to get them back from the garden that backs onto hers. In fairness, my friend said that when this dog and mine were together in our garden there was no aggression, but they weren't together very long. For me if a dog can attack its owner then it can attack anyone, I wouldn't trust it, especially when they are together as a pair and there's a 'pack mentality.' Our poor Labrador wouldn't stand a chance.

[Marky Mark88]

pseudonym said:

Let's be clear, these dogs aren't Staffies. There is no such thing as a large Staffie.

For absolute crystal clarity, one of them definitely has a 'certificate,' we're not 100% sure about the other, although it is still large for a Staffy.

[Marky Mark88]

BBenzzz said:

justinio said:

Assert dominance.

Bum the terrier in front of the staffies. Let them see who is boss.

I don't know how many people are going to let this solution pass them by.. but this is a thread closer.

Although on the pack mentality, maybe try bumming the bigger staffy? That can only end well

fancy earning yourself 50 quid?

[Marky Mark88]

hyphen said:

familyguy1 said:

suggest/insist they move the concrete bench, then surely they can't jump 6ft without breaking legs on landing.

But to be sure I would increase the height of the fence too, go big so you don't have to worry in the future.

After speaking to our local council yesterday, they advised that the maximum height of a fence in a back garden is 6ft, so not sure where this leaves us to be honest? They said we couldn't even add trellis/wire on top of this. I guess we would need planning permission, but I'll be buggered if I'm paying for that. It's her responsibility to keep her dogs in, not our responsibility to keep them out surely?

[Marky Mark88]

Autopilot said:

Without knowing the dogs it's impossible to really understand what the implied threat of them is. I'd be more influenced by how competent the owner was. OK, she's been in a psychiatric ward, that means nothing really and doesn't immediately mean they are a nut job or not fit to have the dogs.

My immediate concern would be the fact that bits of plywood and trellis were used to make the fence higher but a raised platform (the bench) was still available for the dog to gain some height. Seems somebody didn't think this through very well. Fence panels aren't very resistant to dogs teeth, so if one of them wanted to come through then if would take just a minute for it to break its way through.

Regardless of the breed of the dog, it's her job to make sure they cannot escape and kept safe in her garden, so I personally would have a chat about her getting her fence replaced with something more suitable. If she's worried and loves the dogs (and has some money!) then she'd probably do what is required to make it dog proof. You need to be happy with the end result, so offer to help her get it sorted. She can think you're thinking about the well being of the dogs, but you're just making sure the buggers can't get in to your garden.

My worry is she will be happy for her son-in-law to do a bodge job on the fence, which 1, isn't strong enough to stop a dog of this type and 2, devalues our property, which is OK for her as she's social housing. We had to have a drain unblocked recently which turned out to be her fault and the first thing she said when they turned up was she had no money. Luckily it was her side so it ended up being free as she's social. It almost seems like she's happy to have this type of dog, but unwilling to make the necessary financial sacrifices to make sure it doesn't escape. It is a shared boundary, but I can guarantee she wouldn't want to contribute 50% of the cost to put a fence in to keep her dogs secure. In my mind that means she shouldn't have them.

[Marky Mark88]

hyphen said:

Marky Mark88 said:

hyphen said:

familyguy1 said:

suggest/insist they move the concrete bench, then surely they can't jump 6ft without breaking legs on landing.

But to be sure I would increase the height of the fence too, go big so you don't have to worry in the future.

After speaking to our local council yesterday, they advised that the maximum height of a fence in a back garden is 6ft, so not sure where this leaves us to be honest? They said we couldn't even add trellis/wire on top of this. I guess we would need planning permission, but I'll be buggered if I'm paying for that. It's her responsibility to keep her dogs in, not our responsibility to keep them out surely?

I meant in the I would just do it and ensure safety, and if anyone did snitch to the council then apply for retrospective planning. If fails then appeal and if needed and drag it out as long as possible.

Proof of danger will help- so perhaps log the dangerous dog with council too so can be used later.

Also anything that is classed as a 'temporary structure' doesn't need planning I think, or you could be creative with a pergola or something which can be taller than 6ft at 2.5m. https://www.perfectpergolas.co.uk/pergola-planning...

Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 31st October 13:56

I can secure our side for sure, even if it means large expense, I'll just bang a 10ft fence up and be done with it. The problem is that they may well find another route of escape, which could mean they still find our way into our garden through the back fence or over the hedge at the opposite side. Or god forbid they could be roaming the streets and attack a child. Knowing what I know now about the dog being certificated, I'm not sure my conscience can deal with that. At the same time I don't want retaliation from her or her son-in-law if they find out we are responsible for her dog(s) being destroyed.

[Marky Mark88]

There has been some very useful comments on this thread, along with some humorous ones, so thank you all. I think I am going to speak to the dog liaison officer/warden anonymously tomorrow and get their advice. My mind keeps flitting from 'put a bigger fence up, it will be fine' to 'get the dog(s) taken away from her.' I think it boils down to the simple fact that should things go south, she is unable to control them. On more than one occasion she has had to call her son-in-law to come round and get the 'Pitbull' from the garden because he is being stubborn and refuses to come in. This lack of control is very worrying. I think a timely call to the Housing Association (once I find out which one it is) informing them of the problem and suggesting they carry out a routine 'inspection' may be the best way to go. This is also less likely to implicate us, as long as I leave it a couple of months or something. However I shall wait and see what the DLO/Warden says tomorrow.

[Marky Mark88]

HappyMidget said:

Lazermilk said:

Sure, I wasn't disagreeing with him there, just trying to point out that all dogs can potentially be dangerous when not trained/raised properly, unfortunately the staffy/bully type breeds are more often owned by people who may even encourage them to be aggressive to try and make themselves look hard... .

And the reason that so many end up in rescues is that they are generally crap at it.

Lazermilk said:

The ones I have known have been really nice dogs.

Twiggy is welcome to meet mine if he wants to see what a well socialised Staffy actually is like. Regularly get comments on how he is such a calm and well mannered dog by other dog owners. When we used to take him to puppy hour at the pet shop to help socialise him, the staff frequently used to introduce new, nervous dogs to Byron first as they new that he was incredibly good with other dogs and unlikely to scare them.

Agreed, the sister-in-law has a Staffy and he is a lovely dog and is great with their 2 kids. Unfortunately they do have a bad reputation because of certain people using them as status dogs etc. but I certainly have nothing against the breed at all.

The issue here is that we have someone who has at least one 'Pitbull type' dog who isn't able to control it or keep it in a secure environment. This isn't the dog's fault, it's the owners, but unfortunately it will be the dog that pays the price. I really don't want to be the one responsible for the dog being destroyed but at the same time she isn't keeping her side of the agreement with the court as stated on the certificate of exemption. The way I feel at the moment it's just too much of a risk.

[Marky Mark88]

Pesty said:

How about getting a decent fence from your side and moving the concrete bench for her on hers?

Why are we talking about moving or dogs being put down when a fence is all that is required,

No evidence of any humans being hurt

I have no problem helping to move the concrete bench, hopefully this will be done on Saturday. Unfortunately there is evidence of human harm, as she has been attacked by one of the dogs when trying to get them back after they had escaped over/through the fence at the top of her garden. In fairness the fence joining our 2 gardens isn't the best and would benefit from replacement, but if the dogs weren't an issue then I would quite happily leave it. I don't see why we should lose out financially when she isn't prepared to take her responsibilities as a dog owner, let alone a certificated dog owner, seriously.

[Marky Mark88]

techiedave said:

So following on from some of the sterling advice on here has the OP an update ?

Did he offer to rebuild the fence at his own cost ? Has he been nice and neighbourly to his not very neighbourly neighbour ? Maybe as well as building and paying for the fence he has given up an hour of his day to take the neighbours dog out for walks before and after work. Maybe he has started helping his neighbour financially etc

Have been getting some quotes for a 7ft fence, price is coming in at about a £1000, which she will need to share because there's no way we're fronting the full amount! I don't think she will go for this, at which point we will have to make it very clear that should it happen again we will have to report it to the police. I don't think we can be fairer than that.

[Marky Mark88]

As predicted, the neighbour is unwilling to split the cost for a new fence. She came round yesterday with a parcel for us and the wife brought up the idea of putting a new fence in to which she immediately replied 'I've got no money.' She didn't even wait to see how much the cost would be. Apparently the concrete bench can't be moved, she said it would have to be smashed up, but no effort has been made to do this or ask for help. My wife made it clear that something needs to be done and our neighbour agreed, but she obviously isn't prepared to help. So basically we either pay the full cost for a new fence, try and raise the existing fence and make good, or leave it and wait for the dog to jump the fence again and report to the police. She's just completely oblivious.

I have attached some photos of the existing fence. My idea at the moment is to maybe get someone to come in and put some 12" gravel boards underneath the existing panels to make it higher. Any panels that are knackered will have to be replaced and maybe dig out the one concrete post that is leaning over a bit and get it reset. The fence will then be higher than the posts but we'll just have to live with that I guess.