Please give me advice about our aggressive dog
Discussion
Dear PH,
My partner and I are in a bit of a pickle about what to do about our collie cross;
She is a rescue from Romania, just under 2 years old (we think; her birthday is listed as 1 September which sounds a bit like a nominal date given when not sure of the actual date?). Her background is uncertain but I believe she had a family in Romania before being bought to the UK by a rescue centre who bring in a lot of dogs from Romania. She was adopted by a family in the UK who then had to give her up again because she did not get on well with their husky. We then got her from the shelter about 8 months ago. She came to us in good health, all shots administered, passport up to date, chipped and spayed.
The shelter told us that she had been mistreated before (as, sadly, so many are in Romania) and that she was often timid and afraid; she would lay on the ground and back away from people she didn't know. This tallied with our experience when we met her but she soon warmed to us, so we decided to give her a new home.
However, since bringing her home her behaviour quickly changed from timid to fiercely defensive of us and her territory. She is a joy to live with at home for both my partner and I, however she is quite aggressive towards people that she doesn't know. The following is 99% aimed at men she meets, but very occasionally women as well:
- out on walks, especially in confined spaces she will snarl, lunge and snap
- in the house it will be as above, but more so
- although normally she plays brilliantly, she has attacked and drawn blood from other dogs who come into what she regards as her territory (possibly this is why her previous owners with the husky had to give her up?), and what she regards as her territory is not just our home, but also places she is familiar with she will start to regard as her own
- given enough time she will become friendly with others, however she is very quick to revert to aggression if a mistake is made, e.g. my father trod on her paw/tail by accident and she snapped and growled at him rather than yelping and recoiling as most dogs do
We have tried a lot of training methods, and while they show some success in ideal conditions, as soon as the red mist comes down all we can do is physically restrain her and remove her from the situation.
We are now facing the very tough decision about whats best for her and us; it's affecting our lives as we can't have friends round, we can't take her with us to see family, we can't take her out in public, going for a walk is almost constant stress and worry for us, and frustrating for her as we aren't comfortable with her off the lead so she doesn't get a run around.
But when we are at home, she is the perfect dog.
The 'ideal' for us would be to rehome her with someone who doesn't mind taking on a project and who is in a better situation to care for her, but there are so many dogs that need rehoming, who would take on one with known aggression issues?
Which brings us to euthenisation, but that would be very hard for me, and absolutely heartbreaking for my partner (she is the favourite and our dog is besotted with her), and just seems like such a cruel waste of a life.
The first recommendation always seems to be to see a behaviourist, but we are struggling to make ends meet each month as it is; the money simply isn't there to give her what I'm sure would be years of work to undo the damage done.
What would the PH masses do/have you done in a similar situation?
My partner and I are in a bit of a pickle about what to do about our collie cross;
She is a rescue from Romania, just under 2 years old (we think; her birthday is listed as 1 September which sounds a bit like a nominal date given when not sure of the actual date?). Her background is uncertain but I believe she had a family in Romania before being bought to the UK by a rescue centre who bring in a lot of dogs from Romania. She was adopted by a family in the UK who then had to give her up again because she did not get on well with their husky. We then got her from the shelter about 8 months ago. She came to us in good health, all shots administered, passport up to date, chipped and spayed.
The shelter told us that she had been mistreated before (as, sadly, so many are in Romania) and that she was often timid and afraid; she would lay on the ground and back away from people she didn't know. This tallied with our experience when we met her but she soon warmed to us, so we decided to give her a new home.
However, since bringing her home her behaviour quickly changed from timid to fiercely defensive of us and her territory. She is a joy to live with at home for both my partner and I, however she is quite aggressive towards people that she doesn't know. The following is 99% aimed at men she meets, but very occasionally women as well:
- out on walks, especially in confined spaces she will snarl, lunge and snap
- in the house it will be as above, but more so
- although normally she plays brilliantly, she has attacked and drawn blood from other dogs who come into what she regards as her territory (possibly this is why her previous owners with the husky had to give her up?), and what she regards as her territory is not just our home, but also places she is familiar with she will start to regard as her own
- given enough time she will become friendly with others, however she is very quick to revert to aggression if a mistake is made, e.g. my father trod on her paw/tail by accident and she snapped and growled at him rather than yelping and recoiling as most dogs do
We have tried a lot of training methods, and while they show some success in ideal conditions, as soon as the red mist comes down all we can do is physically restrain her and remove her from the situation.
We are now facing the very tough decision about whats best for her and us; it's affecting our lives as we can't have friends round, we can't take her with us to see family, we can't take her out in public, going for a walk is almost constant stress and worry for us, and frustrating for her as we aren't comfortable with her off the lead so she doesn't get a run around.
But when we are at home, she is the perfect dog.
The 'ideal' for us would be to rehome her with someone who doesn't mind taking on a project and who is in a better situation to care for her, but there are so many dogs that need rehoming, who would take on one with known aggression issues?
Which brings us to euthenisation, but that would be very hard for me, and absolutely heartbreaking for my partner (she is the favourite and our dog is besotted with her), and just seems like such a cruel waste of a life.
The first recommendation always seems to be to see a behaviourist, but we are struggling to make ends meet each month as it is; the money simply isn't there to give her what I'm sure would be years of work to undo the damage done.
What would the PH masses do/have you done in a similar situation?
Edited by deadtom on Monday 1st July 10:36
moorx said:
I'm no expert, and haven't dealt with a dog with this level of problems before, but two things spring immediately to mind.
First - if you haven't already, get a muzzle for when she's outside of the house. Baskerville is one make. A muzzle has the dual advantage of preventing your dog damaging other dogs or people, and also sending a visual message to people which tends to make them give you more space.
Secondly - have you contacted the rescue she came from? Any decent rescue should offer lifetime back-up, which may include behavioural support. They should also be willing to take back a dog you can no longer keep.
yes we have tried, and continue to try muzzle training with a baskerville style and the more comfortable 'sleeve' type, but unsurprisingly she really hates wearing it so it's very much ongoing.First - if you haven't already, get a muzzle for when she's outside of the house. Baskerville is one make. A muzzle has the dual advantage of preventing your dog damaging other dogs or people, and also sending a visual message to people which tends to make them give you more space.
Secondly - have you contacted the rescue she came from? Any decent rescue should offer lifetime back-up, which may include behavioural support. They should also be willing to take back a dog you can no longer keep.
Edited by moorx on Monday 1st July 10:42
Yes we have messaged the rescue centre, they have not replied.
We are reluctant to give her back to a rescue centre because either a) we are honest about her issues, she likely never gets rehomed and is put down after a few months of miserable life in a rescue centre, or b) we lie about her issues and hope that the next owners are better placed to deal with it when they inevitably find out.
We have messaged a couple but one said they wouldn't take an aggressive dog and the other said they have no space at the moment.
Also we have messaged a couple of behaviourists, one said they probably can't help her, one said they provide training followed by a whole year of support but wanted payment (lots) up front and the other said "buy my book, it's all in there"
We have an appointment to see our local vet on wednesday to discuss options with them.
If rehoming is possible, we would be more than happy to keep caring for her until a new owner can be found so that she doesn't have to go back to kennels, but is there any realistic chance of this happening?
Edited by deadtom on Monday 1st July 11:11
How much should we expect to pay for a behaviourist to help?
If it's more than a couple of hundred then it would mean borrowing and going further into debt, which is possible, but I am trying to be objective about the point at which the negative effects on our quality of life become too severe.
If it's more than a couple of hundred then it would mean borrowing and going further into debt, which is possible, but I am trying to be objective about the point at which the negative effects on our quality of life become too severe.
MYOB said:
muzzle for outside. And crate or kennel in the house or garden for when you have visitors.
Longer term, see a pet behaviorist.
This has been our approach recently, but while a muzzle would physically inhibit her from biting people, would it also provide enough of a calming effect to stop her lunging at people in our home, or if we took her with us when we went to see family (and their numerous young children and pets)?Longer term, see a pet behaviorist.
SeeFive said:
Every case is different but prepare for some expense and disappointment along the way if your dog is genuinely wired differently to what is acceptable. Not wishing to be too negative, it could work out for your dog but it didn’t for ours unfortunately - but again, each case is different.
Thanks for your replies, and sorry to hear your story didn't have a happy ending.I think the hardest thing is that it doesn't seem like she was created wrong, she just had a s
t start in life which has put her a long way down the path of distrust, fear, aggression and being territorial, but we just aren't in a position to give her the future she would need to correct all that. If we lived in a decent sized house in the middle of nowhere (and that is the dream), where she could have lots of her own space to run and play, or retreat to when people come over to avid having to be put in what she perceives as threatening situations, then everything would be fine. But that's not the situation we have now, or are likely to have, maybe ever.
Muzzer79 said:
We have a two year old rescue, who has issues with socialisation and general puppy-like behaviour.
We have a (good) behaviourist who is very helpful. We paid about £50 for an initial (2 hour) consultation then it's £30ish for a 1.5 hour session every couple of weeks.
So, it's about £60 a month ongoing. We've been going for around 6 months, but with big gaps in between (behaviourist is popular, we've been on holiday, etc)
It's worth it - a good behaviourist can help you with a 2 year old dog. If they're telling you to just buy their book or that they can't help; they're not a good behaviourist.
Be aware that the dog likely won't change in a few weeks - it takes time and patience.
Where are you based?
It sounds like you have found a good behaviourist there, and very reasonably priced. has your dog made noticeable improvements in that time? We have a (good) behaviourist who is very helpful. We paid about £50 for an initial (2 hour) consultation then it's £30ish for a 1.5 hour session every couple of weeks.
So, it's about £60 a month ongoing. We've been going for around 6 months, but with big gaps in between (behaviourist is popular, we've been on holiday, etc)
It's worth it - a good behaviourist can help you with a 2 year old dog. If they're telling you to just buy their book or that they can't help; they're not a good behaviourist.
Be aware that the dog likely won't change in a few weeks - it takes time and patience.
Where are you based?
I am just about on the Leicestershire side of the Leicestershire / Warwickshire border, not far from Nuneaton, however we only just moved here so we don't know anyone or many of the places around here to get recommendations.
Thanks for the replies everyone.
Ed/L152 said:
It reflects poorly on a rehoming charity when they rehome dogs without proper behavioural assessment.
Aye, although I freely admit we were somewhat naive taking on a rescue as a first dog, we do feel like the rescue centre somewhat downplayed her issues and just wanted to see another dog rehomed, though of course it is also possible that the previous owners downplayed her issues when taking her back to the rescueJakg said:
It's not going to be cheap but don't abandon the dog. It's already been abandoned twice.
Sorry for going a little bit quiet, and thanks everyone for the replies.
We went to see the vet, and after hearing our situation they recommended we have her put to sleep, so with a very heavy heart and a certain number of tears shed, we made an appointment for next week.
But then today there is a glimmer of hope! I will update when I know more but the short version is that a friend of my sister keeps and trains dogs for agility competition and has said she will take her on.
We went to see the vet, and after hearing our situation they recommended we have her put to sleep, so with a very heavy heart and a certain number of tears shed, we made an appointment for next week.
But then today there is a glimmer of hope! I will update when I know more but the short version is that a friend of my sister keeps and trains dogs for agility competition and has said she will take her on.
The Moose said:
May I ask why you considered taking on a dog if you’re struggling to make ends meet?
2 reasons mainly:At the time we took her on, we weren't quite as broke
And because in our naivety, we didn't consider that, on top of the usual expenses of dog care, we would have to pay for ongoing behavioural treatment and kenneling every time we want to be out of the house for more than half a day or have people over.
Lesson as been learnt though, I don't think we will take on another dog for a while. We need to sort out our own lives first.
Well after a long and frank chat about her problems and the sort of place that she would need, the arrangements have been made. Next Friday we take her to her new adoptive home in south Wales 
The couple who are taking her on have numerous other rescue dogs that they have had great success in bringing on from people who, like us, were not able to give them the sort of care that they need.
It's a rural location on the side of a mountain so hopefully she will get all the space and quiet that she needs, but also lots of ways to burn energy and keep her engaged with agility training and suchlike.
It will still be hard to see her go, but a huge relief that we don't have to put her to sleep, and other than being a long way away from us her new home sounds like everything we could have hoped for.
Thank you everyone who has replied with advice and support, it is nice to see that not all of PH is like NP&E.
The couple who are taking her on have numerous other rescue dogs that they have had great success in bringing on from people who, like us, were not able to give them the sort of care that they need.
It's a rural location on the side of a mountain so hopefully she will get all the space and quiet that she needs, but also lots of ways to burn energy and keep her engaged with agility training and suchlike.
It will still be hard to see her go, but a huge relief that we don't have to put her to sleep, and other than being a long way away from us her new home sounds like everything we could have hoped for.
Thank you everyone who has replied with advice and support, it is nice to see that not all of PH is like NP&E.
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