Should unhealthy dogs be banned?

[Esceptico]

I find the attraction to flat faced dogs somewhat odd. People sympathise with humans that are deformed, such as the Elephant man, but I don’t think many think they look better than normal.

Yet so many dog owners clearly do find something attractive about pugs and the like, even though objectively they have been deliberately bred to be deformed. I think perhaps the flat face makes them look a little like human babies and that is why some people find them cute.

I find it hard to forget an article I read by a senior vet about how he presents his first year students with an x ray of a pug’s head and asks for comments. Many assume that it shows a dog that has been run over or suffered a similar fate.

I’ve seen a fair number of such dogs whilst out walking mine. It distresses me to hear their laboured breathing as they run around.

Personally I would like to see such dogs banned as it seems unnecessary animal cruelty to keep breeding them. There are lots of cute and loveable small dogs available that we haven’t cursed with poor health.

An alternative approach would be to breed out such characteristics but not sure how that would work and as there are plenty of dogs already with normal snouts I’m not sure of the point (plus there would be a lot of suffering of different generations until the snout was more dog like again).

[Esceptico]

moorx said:

You have posted about this before, so we know your opinion.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

How do you decide and/or who decides what is 'unhealthy'?

You have a particular issue with brachycephalic dogs, but there are plenty of other breeds which (through selective breeding) are susceptible to certain medical conditions - labradors (hip dysplasia/eye issues), dachshunds (back issues), west highland white terriers (skin problems), collies (epilepsy), greyhounds (bone cancer), deerhounds (liver shunt), cocker spaniels (ear/eye issues).

Where do you start/end?

I know I’ve addressed the topic before but wanted to start a poll to gauge opinion.

Flat faced dogs have health issues because we have bred them that way. Similarly German Shepherds have hip problems because people think the sloping back stance looks good. Those are the types of problems I think should be resolved by banning or breeding.

Health issues that have arisen coincidentally because of inbreeding but not because we have selected for specific features are probably best dealt with by only breeding from dogs that don’t display the problems or possibly crossbreeding.

[Esceptico]

Whats on Second said:

billbring said:

Can't see the appeal of wanting a disabled pet.

Edited by billbring on Saturday 30th April 22:19

agreed but, you how perverse people are, they'll walk past a healthy beast to fall in love with the ugly dog, wonky eyed cat, featherless parakeet, 3 legged pig.

i don't know, maybe we overthink things concerning our pets , is the breathless
flat faced dog or cat aware of it's excessive panting, or does it know nothing else and
is happy being alive, loved and having its belly rubbed ?

We can’t ask breathless dogs but you can ask people with breathing difficulties. My MIL had severe asthma (she died of a lung infection at just 60). Did she like her life? Yes. Did she suffer a lot because of the asthma and would she have done anything to be free of it? Also yes. Although dogs can’t talk I suspect the answer would be similar.

There is a difference between how we treat dogs that have already been born and those we choose to bring into being. It is compassionate to look after a disabled animal that exists but cruel to deliberately breed disabled animals.

Most parents of disabled children love them yet I doubt many actively aimed to have disabled children or wouldn’t have the disability removed, if that were possible.

Edited by Esceptico on Saturday 30th April 23:21

[Esceptico]

rxe said:

Rather than banning German Shepherds, I’d rather buyers were educated as to the pitfalls of buying a dodgy one. If the demand goes, then the poor quality breeding will go. I really have no sympathy for people who have a dog that is knackered at a young age because they bought the bloody thing from an ad on Gumtree. I have a lot of sympathy for the dog.

As an example, our 12 year old GSD does not have arthritis to any appreciable degree. She’s had cancer, and it’s a toss up at the moment whether she will die of it, or die of old age. She still runs (ok, not very fast), climb stairs and tries to dig up rabbit holes. She’s got a pedigree as long as your arm, we did a lot of research before getting her as a pup. A friend bought a GSD pup at about the same time as we got ours. A genuine friend, intelligent bloke etc, but ….. Gumtree. The dog was on strong painkillers at 4, and was dead of liver failure at 6. Lovely dog, just awful breeding.

If you look up pictures of GSD from a century ago they had normal backs, being parallel to the ground, not the odd sloping stance that the dog showing types like. Presumably it wouldn’t be too difficult to selectively breed for a normal back, which I think would help with the hip problems.

[Esceptico]

Johnnytheboy said:

I'm old enough to remember when PH wasn't a natural place to encounter people who wanted to ban everything they didn't like.

But then it's not really a car forum any more.

I am a libertarian and don’t care what people do, nor is my first instinct to suggest bans. However, supporting people’s right to do what they want also means supporting people’s (or on this case innocent animals’) right not to be negatively affected by others.

If people could be educated to stop doing things that hurt others, rather than banning, I would be happier. However, some people are just thoughtless, inconsiderate or lack empathy and there is no reasoning with them. To protect others bans are sometimes the last but necessary resort.

PH hasn’t been a car forum for a long time. A mumsnet for mainly right leaning, Middle Aged blokes would be a more accurate description.