Wife wants sprog Christened - I don't.

[GTO Scott]

Sometime in the next few days the wife is going to be dropping a sprog. Whilst this already represents something of a personal failure, wife is now on about the christening. Whilst she isn't exactly a religious fanatic (her family are all methodists but all capable of drinking large amounts at parties and family gatherings), she does believe in god. I have no issue with that, nor does she have an issue with the fact that I do not believe at all. However, she wants sprog christened within a couple of months of being born (early December is when she wants it).

I can't agree with this. Why not let sprog grow up, make her own choices and if she wants to believe the world was created by a bored deity who had a week spare and fancied doing a bit of landscaping, then fine. Mrs S has said the christening is tradition as much as anything else, which to me seems pointless. It's almost like saying I should go and have a case of chicken pox because everyone else has.

I just don't see what the problem is with letting sprog decide when she grows up. If the wife wants to celebrate sprogs appearance on the planet, why not just have a party?

Over to you...

[GTO Scott]

It began a while ago - 13th of Feb 2012 to be exact, when she told me she was pregnant.

[GTO Scott]

Jasandjules said:

Not sure how a child represents a failure however I don't think it would be right of your wife to insist on a religious ceremony for your child if that is not your wish. What about a non-religious naming ceremony as a compromise?

I'm too selfish to deal with having a child. A child will get in the way of what I want from life, in terms of where I can go, what I can buy and how I can live. Life was getting close to how I wanted it - own house, wife, and Labrador. Harry (the Labrador) is my substitute for a child - he is my boy, doesn't need clothes (grows his own), doesn't need to go to school, is excited by the prospect of eating left-overs, gives unconditional affection even when he's just had a bking, and wants nothing more complex than a tennis ball to play with.

Children are much more expensive.

As for a non-religious ceremony, she won't have that. Has to be a christening, has to be in a certain church.

We got married at Pendennis Castle - so no religious element in the marriage.

[GTO Scott]

Carthage said:

I felt the same way about my likely parental skills, or lack thereof.
That's why I've always used something called 'contraception'.

I feel that the issue of christening your daughter pales into insignificance beside the issue of your not wanting her.

As have I. However, as you are most likely aware, contraception is only 99% effective. Given that my wife and I had managed 5 years child-free, and neither of us had any issues with previous partners, I'd say we understand it pretty well. Yes, I suppose she could have had an abortion, but that was her choice. I could not, in any way, shape or form influence her decision on that as I wouldn't have been the one who had to deal with the emotional consequences.

I always said I would do my best for the child if she ever got pregnant and I stand by that. I will not run away, I will give her the best life I can. But I cannot change how I feel, and I will not lie about it.

[GTO Scott]

Cock Womble 7 said:

Firstly, did you make your feelings clear to your OH when you got together?

Yes. She was under no illusions.

A lot of people have told me I will change my opinions when sprog is here, and in a years time I'll look back and think about how I feel now and call myself an idiot for feeling like it at all. I genuinely hope this is the case - no child should grow up without a pair of loving parents. But as the time draws near I find my feelings against children getting stronger, and, being totally truthful, the whole concept of fatherhood scares the st out of me.

[GTO Scott]

Rickyy said:

An absent parent is far less emotionally damaging than an unloving one. I hope for your child's sake you change the way you feel. A christening really is the least of your worries!

Being absent would require me to divorce my wife - as we have an otherwise great relationship, this is not an option. I would agree - a christening really shouldn't be an issue right now, but it's my wife's insistence (egged on by her family) that the christening must happen as soon as possible that means it has become an issue.

[GTO Scott]

Jasandjules said:

How old are you?

If there is a lot of pressure, then I suppose the question is: What difference will it truly make to your life if she does get Christened? If she was talking about taking the child to church every Sunday then that's a bit different...

28. I don't suppose it would make much difference to me, but I would find it very hypocritical of myself to stand there by the font and mumble words about leading her in the Christian way when I believe differently.

[GTO Scott]

Hackney said:

Welcome party sounds like a good idea.

Trouble with "giving in" to the Christening as "it keeps her happy" is what happens with the next thing?

Christening / Baptism
Catholic School / Faith School
Sunday School
etc etc etc

Where do you finally say, hang on this isn't "my belief" and I'm 50% of this child's DNA what about keeping me happy?

In all fairness to my wife, she wants to select a school based only on educational merit - faith schools and the like are not an issue. It's the whole 'christening because it's tradition' thing that bothers me, mainly because it's bks.

[GTO Scott]

I don't want children. Obviously in the context of this thread that seems like a 'no st sherlock' statement' but it does not stop me from wanting to try to bring this one up as well as I can. I see no reason why sprog should not have the choice when she is of an age to make an informed decision. I do every so often think about what I want her to be when she grows up (ideally into the sciences, physics preferably but biology or chemistry would be fine), and I do, despite my own issues, want her to have a good childhood.

I suppose another issue with it is the speed this all seems to be being planned with. What's wrong with waiting six months? My wife says there's no need to wait, but for my family and friends up north it's quite an ask to spend a fair wedge of cash to come down to Cornwall a couple of weeks before Christmas with just 6 weeks notice. My wife can't see that as an issue.

[GTO Scott]

Galileo said:

Neither can anyone else. Looks like you've got some growing up to do.

Actually my family and friends, as well as some of her family who live further afield, do see it as an issue.

My wife won't have it in 2013 as the year has 13 in it. My rational, pre-pregnant wife wouldn't have cared one iota. She won't wait until 2014 as the baby will be 'too old'.

Is this the long slippery slope to 'the mental'?

[GTO Scott]

AJS- said:

This is what I call the Dawkins Delusion. The idea that being an atheist means you have to be resolutely and publically anti any quasi religious ceremony at all.

Whilst I am an atheist I have no issue with the religious leanings of others - all I want is for sprog to be able to make her own choice.

The last Christian fanatic who stopped me in the street didn't get the idea of choice. But then he also called me an idiot for not believing in god, and that god would send me to hell.

[GTO Scott]

johnfm said:

How long have you had the Aspergers?

Why do you think I have AS?

[GTO Scott]

vixen1700 said:

I don't believe in God or Christianity, but love a good Christmas dinner and some party games afterwards like Charades, could you not think of the Christening in a similar way?

That's roughly the way my wife's family have put it - I do understand it but I just don't see what the issue is with letting the child choose when she is old enough.

I suppose it's just a case of forgetting my own beliefs in order to make another happy. I just wish sometimes it worked the other way.

[GTO Scott]

172ff said:

Should have thought about all of that before you blew you beans up your wife.

The contraception issue was covered a few pages ago. The contraception didn't work as intended.

[GTO Scott]

elvismiggell said:

Do you really think being Christened is going to prevent your child from choosing her own way when she is old enough? Especially if her Dad is always there to remind her that she should always question things and make her own mind up?

No, but I just don't see the reasoning in going for it so quickly. I mean, she's not even born yet, why not get the actual birth done, dusted and all health checks done, make sure she's well and has no medical issues etc before organising having her christened? I just can't see any need to rush it.

[Edit: Ballsed up the quotes]

[GTO Scott]

bhstewie said:

Don't you think there's a slight hypocrisy in getting so worked out about a ceremony for a child you don't want?

How would the conversation go, "Darling you know I don't want the child because I'm too selfish to deal with being a parent, but since we're stuck with her I need to tell you how strongly I feel about having her christened"?

Just seems.. wrong IMO.

I quite agree. Having had 8 months to get used to the idea, I am still no better off in terms of understanding. However I do want to make the best effort I can to give her a good upbringing, even if I struggle myself to come to terms with it.

I have moments when I wonder why it had to happen at all, and yet I also have times when I really want her to do well in life, want her not to have a childhood like mine, and to have ambitions and hope. One poster earlier implied I should not push her in any particular direction of study, but I wasn't pushed to do well and I realised far too late that no qualifications and no ambition were bad things to enter adult life with.

I can only try my best - yes, it screwed up my life plan royally, but I will make every effort to give the girl as good an upbringing as I am capable of providing. The christening is just frustrating in that no matter what I say it just seems like I'm being ignored.

[GTO Scott]

iphonedyou said:

OP, why don't you ask your wife, rather than internet strangers.

I have discussed it with my wife several times over the last eight months. I asked here as having a discussion with individuals without a vested interest would perhaps give some different opinions and ideas for me to consider.

[GTO Scott]

Grenoble said:

I suggested supporting her and encouraging education but to her strengths, rather than to where you think she should be going. Anyhow that is all 12-14 years ahead, you've plenty of time. I agree with steering/mentoring but not directing- I had some GCSEs but nothing beyond until I got my act in gear at 21, I would have benefited from a stronger father/son relationship. But my father often descibed me as an accident.

Sorry, my mistake - I was busy writing the post and didn't check back properly to re-read what you'd written. At the very least I hope she can be encouraged to do well in whatever she shows an aptitude for, but I do hope that she goes into something useful rather than media studies or beauty therapy.

Mind you, I'm doing better than my father - at least I'm taking some interest!

[GTO Scott]

Huff said:

As others have already noted I think the Christening thing and the OP's problem with it is a symptom, not the real issue here. IMO the OP needs to simply realise he's no longer the centre of his universe. And that damn soon.

GTO - Guess what, a kid is not the end of the universe you planned. It can be the making of you, if you can drop your sense of self-importance (fk you, the universe doesn't care anyway)

Without wishing to delve too deeply into the past and justify my feelings, I moved out of the family home as soon as I legally could, made a hash of things and have spent most of the last ten years working bloody hard to get my life back on track and be comfortable. Just as I think I can start to relax, this happens. In another three years, it wouldn't have been anywhere near as much of a problem (for financial reasons at least), although I suspect I'd still be disappointed.

I am aware the rest of the universe cares not a jot about me - that is what drives me towards my goals. Nobody will magically fix things, anything I want, I have to earn. Anything I want to achieve, I have to work at.

Huff said:

I say this because I once thought and felt just the same way. No, no kids for me, evah. Had my technique down and everything, don't be tickling or nothin'...

Then out of the blue I met someone and ..it really , really worked for us at every level, except I had to consider there was the 2yr old daughter in tow. Er um. Guess what - getting over my own limited imagination was the best thing that ever could have happened to me. So, while in the very long term we are no longer together L. is still one of my closest friends and there's a 19yr old to whom I am (and remain) to my everlasting joy …Dad. Not what I planned then, and beyond what I thought I could be. Very definitely the making of who I am now though.

That girl is very lucky, and I am glad you feel that way. I'm ashamed to say my sister has three kids by three different fathers and none of them really know what it's like to have a constant father figure. Yet despite knowing this I still struggle with the idea of fatherhood on a personal scale - it terrifies me, and I do have a constant issue with whether I would ever be able to do the right thing at the right time, or whether I'll just end up turning into my father, which wouldn't be a good thing. Mrs S knows all this - she knew long before she was pregnant.

Huff said:

So, GTO, how much do you what the bigger picture or are you really out for only-you all your own life? Surely not unless your wonderful-until-just-now wife is to be held some kind of hostage to your will ( -in which case, there's an even-larger FU around the corner)

Realise now if you choose that route, then your entire life will tend to empty, devoid of the partner you have and obviously want, and circumscribed by explaining that emptiness away to everyone you meet, for the rest of it. Miserable.

I lived my life very much to the idea of putting myself first, until I met my wife. Then I gave up a lot of my life to live with her in Cornwall, including a job I enjoyed, seeing friends regularly, a fair few possessions (my Range Rover, XJ and a preserved bus all had to go), we bought a house together and I stuck all the money I had been saving for a Bentley Turbo R (my aim had been to have one by the time I hit 30) into rebuilding the house, got into a fair bit of debt doing so, and so on. I do realise that sounds very materialistic, but that's me. I wouldn't say however that I have been exactly selfish to my wife.

Huff said:

Man the fk up. It could and I very much hope will prove, a far far greater thing than you can imagine. Scary, yes; but some kind of wonderful too.

Meanwhile odd ceremonies here or there along the way are just part of life's rich tapestry. Try to enjoy them all, even if only at face value.

Edited by Huff on Sunday 7th October 02:22

I am trying my best to deal with something that I never wanted, actively avoid and cannot deal with socially.

The wife is a social worker, so at least if I do anything wrong she'll be able to tell me.

[GTO Scott]

DanL said:

Right, I'm going to ignore the contraception side of things - what's done is done, although quite why you've not had a vasectomy is a bit of a mystery given that you never wanted children.

Simple. I wanted one and was told to come back when I hit 30 by the doctor.

DanL said:

The important issue here is that you seem to believe being Christened will somehow remove the child's ability to choose whether to believe in God or not. This is, patently, nonsense. You child won't remember it happening, and it'll have no effect on her future views... What will is how she's brought up the first few years of her life, and if your wife is inclined to take her to church and tell her all about God then it's *this* that you should be worrying about if you want you child to be able to make her own mind up. You'll have to give her the other side of the argument.

If you care to read back through the last eight pages, you'll find not a single reference from me about the child being 'locked in' to the church once she is baptised. I'm getting tired of being misunderstood, so I'll list my issues with the christening below:
1. The christening is unnecessary at 6 weeks old - apart from a load of bks about it being tradition there is no need.
2. I believe she should have the choice when she is of age - surely if she chooses to follow a life guided by Christianity her baptism is a day she would like to remember and cherish?
3. I was baptised, I am now an atheist. My sister was not, but chose as an adult to believe and be baptised. Therefore there is no reason to believe that early baptism is somehow forcing her to be a Christian.
4. I have issues with dealing with children, but having been told now by everyone that I need to be involved, I need to help guide her, I need to take an interest, I find it somewhat frustrating that the first big decision I try to have some input into seems to require me to shut the fk up and go along with it regardless of how I feel.

In short, why am I bothering to care when it seems like all I'm needed for is money and discipline?