life contentment, chasing the money....
Discussion
I have a pretty decent life.
I am not a powerfully built company director, but I am not poor either. I have a nice house (at least that is what my wife an I think), we have decent cars (though mine is nearly 14 years old and hers is nearly 5), we go out plenty, have several holidays a year, even if they're just in the UK mainly, never really worry about money, have decent jobs that pay well enough for the area, but not massively paid. I guess comfortable is the word.
I cannot go out and just drop £25k on a car, but I can usually drop £10k.
We work 9-5:30, walk to work most days, so we are out of the house from 8:25am to 6pm usually during the week. We do not work weekends, except when she is on call, (which I will also be doing later this year) so we have a have a healthy work / life balance.
I often think though that I would like a better paid job with more responsibility, yadda, yadda, yadda. But then I think why? Sure I have to save for things, but that teaches me the value of money. I do not live to work, I work to live. So I find myself wondering what is the point of it? If I am content with the lot I have now, is there a real need to change? I'd have to start working either in London or another part of the country, which means more time away from home, more travel costs over the £0 I pretty much pay now, and I may not even get paid enough for it to make a difference. In my last job I was working 8:30am to 5pm, but would usually do over time, so I'd maybe get home around 8pm, sometimes 10pm and sometimes have to leave home between 4am and 6am to get to a site. I would often spend a week working away, be on call every 4 or 5 weeks. My work / life balance was stacked mainly in work. Sure I earned a fair bit of money when I took expenses into consideration, but without those I'd not be earning much more than I do now, and without the overtime I would be earning a lot less. Sure that job meant I quickly saved enough money for our house deposit, but my well being suffered during that time. I now feel a lot better and I earn similar to what I was on before after the over time. When I start doing the on call work I will pretty much be on the same wage.
So I tend to come to the conclusion of "so what if I have to wait 12 months for something when others can get it next week". I aren't out flogging myself to death anymore for work, I get to enjoy the fruits of my labour, have a nice working environment (the last one was almost toxic) and I am happy and content.
I know I am making the right choice by not chasing the money. I do net get stressed at work, I have a lot of autonomy as long as the work gets done and my work are very happy with what I do.
Anyone else ever felt like this? Did you decide to go down the rabbit hole or did you just stick and decide that happiness isn't necessarily when you get paid?
A bit rambly I guess.. Sorry. Not sorry
I am not a powerfully built company director, but I am not poor either. I have a nice house (at least that is what my wife an I think), we have decent cars (though mine is nearly 14 years old and hers is nearly 5), we go out plenty, have several holidays a year, even if they're just in the UK mainly, never really worry about money, have decent jobs that pay well enough for the area, but not massively paid. I guess comfortable is the word.
I cannot go out and just drop £25k on a car, but I can usually drop £10k.
We work 9-5:30, walk to work most days, so we are out of the house from 8:25am to 6pm usually during the week. We do not work weekends, except when she is on call, (which I will also be doing later this year) so we have a have a healthy work / life balance.
I often think though that I would like a better paid job with more responsibility, yadda, yadda, yadda. But then I think why? Sure I have to save for things, but that teaches me the value of money. I do not live to work, I work to live. So I find myself wondering what is the point of it? If I am content with the lot I have now, is there a real need to change? I'd have to start working either in London or another part of the country, which means more time away from home, more travel costs over the £0 I pretty much pay now, and I may not even get paid enough for it to make a difference. In my last job I was working 8:30am to 5pm, but would usually do over time, so I'd maybe get home around 8pm, sometimes 10pm and sometimes have to leave home between 4am and 6am to get to a site. I would often spend a week working away, be on call every 4 or 5 weeks. My work / life balance was stacked mainly in work. Sure I earned a fair bit of money when I took expenses into consideration, but without those I'd not be earning much more than I do now, and without the overtime I would be earning a lot less. Sure that job meant I quickly saved enough money for our house deposit, but my well being suffered during that time. I now feel a lot better and I earn similar to what I was on before after the over time. When I start doing the on call work I will pretty much be on the same wage.
So I tend to come to the conclusion of "so what if I have to wait 12 months for something when others can get it next week". I aren't out flogging myself to death anymore for work, I get to enjoy the fruits of my labour, have a nice working environment (the last one was almost toxic) and I am happy and content.
I know I am making the right choice by not chasing the money. I do net get stressed at work, I have a lot of autonomy as long as the work gets done and my work are very happy with what I do.
Anyone else ever felt like this? Did you decide to go down the rabbit hole or did you just stick and decide that happiness isn't necessarily when you get paid?
A bit rambly I guess.. Sorry. Not sorry
berlintaxi said:
Yipper said:
Think the academic research typically shows £50-60k is the sweet-spot between money and stress for the average Joe. Below that level and there's too little cash. Above that level and there's too much stress.
Much depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
Do you ever post anything that isn't complete and utter bMuch depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
ks?Lord.Vader said:
I wouldn't say 08:30 - 18:00 everyday is a good work life balance; but I do agree with what you are saying, I went to night school for my degree and have just finished my masters which has helped me land the job I have had for the past 3 years, will be moving back to the U.K. this year getting a salary based on my current German salary (for which I am nicely overpaid), not direct comparison but more than I would have had.
We will return to North Wales so will be able to have a nice life, no stress, a couple of cars, sit back and enjoy life
not grafting 70-80 hours a week, what's the point!
I work between 20-65 hours a week depending on travelling, etc, but rarely on a Friday unless I am out of Europe and my girlfriend doesn't work Fridays, so we usually have a 3 day weekend which is nice and I find helps balance our lifestyle a little better.
ETA: I would never normally agree with Yipper, but I do remember reading the same, will try and dig it out.
ETA2; http://www.pnas.org/content/107/38/16489.abstract (USA)
Compared to my last few roles, this is bliss. We will return to North Wales so will be able to have a nice life, no stress, a couple of cars, sit back and enjoy life
not grafting 70-80 hours a week, what's the point! I work between 20-65 hours a week depending on travelling, etc, but rarely on a Friday unless I am out of Europe and my girlfriend doesn't work Fridays, so we usually have a 3 day weekend which is nice and I find helps balance our lifestyle a little better.
ETA: I would never normally agree with Yipper, but I do remember reading the same, will try and dig it out.
ETA2; http://www.pnas.org/content/107/38/16489.abstract (USA)
Edited by Lord.Vader on Wednesday 17th January 13:58
CzechItOut said:
The reason I have recently quit my relatively well paid, local job for one which is much better paid, but with more responsibility and significantly more commute is because I am petrified about how I am going to live during my retirement.
I have just pooled all my previous pensions into one and have the princely sum of £140,000. This will buy me an annuity of less than £10,000 which is what we current spend on our annual holiday. Of course there is the state pension, but I don't hold out much hope for that my the time I will qualify in 27 years (if the goalposts aren't moved again).
Therefore I think it is better to work myself hard while I am relatively young and have my health, allowing me to squirrel away like crazy in the vain hope I won't have to be 65 years old and getting up to go to work every day.
All well and good until you get hit by a bus tomorrow.I have just pooled all my previous pensions into one and have the princely sum of £140,000. This will buy me an annuity of less than £10,000 which is what we current spend on our annual holiday. Of course there is the state pension, but I don't hold out much hope for that my the time I will qualify in 27 years (if the goalposts aren't moved again).
Therefore I think it is better to work myself hard while I am relatively young and have my health, allowing me to squirrel away like crazy in the vain hope I won't have to be 65 years old and getting up to go to work every day.
My pension will likely be worth nothing in 30 years when I retire. I will worry about that then. I will have a house to sell and savings (hopefully).
Plus who knows what money will be worth in 30 years time? Your £10k could be but a minutes wage by then. What is the point of working yourself to death when you're young and be too knackered or ill to enjoy it when you're older? I'd rather live for the now as tomorrow never comes.
TameRacingDriver said:
OP, I could literally have wrote what you have word for word, even down to the walking to work and how long it takes you!
I agree with you by the way. People like to keep telling me I should have ambition, should do this, should do that. Well frankly, they can fk off. I am quite happy with the way things are. Never going to be rich, never going to be remembered for anything, probably the very definition of 'mediocre' but you know what, I am quite happy to be average. I'm just not driven to do anything more, never have been, and probably never will.
All I will say is, I don't have kids, don't want them, and if I were to have them, I doubt I could be happy with our salary, but then I wouldn't be happy full stop seeing as I don't want them. If you want to be content at your current level, its something you need to think about.
Nothing wrong with being comfortable the way you are, and don't let anyone try and tell you otherwise.
I don't have kids either. Don't get me wrong, I would be quite happy to do more to get more, but if getting more means I actually get less, then what is the point? Pointless getting a job in London for £10k more than I am on now as any gain in wage would be spend on travel. I would need to be paid a lot more to work in London than I am now, and considering that the jobs I would be skilled enough in aren't going to pay that then it would be even more pointless.I agree with you by the way. People like to keep telling me I should have ambition, should do this, should do that. Well frankly, they can f
k off. I am quite happy with the way things are. Never going to be rich, never going to be remembered for anything, probably the very definition of 'mediocre' but you know what, I am quite happy to be average. I'm just not driven to do anything more, never have been, and probably never will.All I will say is, I don't have kids, don't want them, and if I were to have them, I doubt I could be happy with our salary, but then I wouldn't be happy full stop seeing as I don't want them. If you want to be content at your current level, its something you need to think about.
Nothing wrong with being comfortable the way you are, and don't let anyone try and tell you otherwise.
FocusRS3 said:
cheddar said:
I recently turned 50, I haven't worked (for money) for 6 years, it's the second time I've had an 'extended holiday' and have now spent 10 years of my working life not working.
I'm mortgage free but not rich (to all the 'when I'm mortgage free' people, the bills don't suddenly stop!), I just decided that I didn't want to be a semi arthritic 65 year old that had given his best years to the establishment.
I live a simple, frugal life in a relatively humble house in the countryside and always know that I can earn money if I need to.
Some would be bored with a similar existence but I've travelled extensively to over 60 countries, owned around 60 cars, served time in the military, felt affluent, gone hungry, run various small businesses, loved and lost and I'm now slowly working on my shack and surrounding garden, playing bad golf and trying to stay out of the city as long as possible.
Why should we work 5+ days/40+ hours each week and endure tortuous commutes? Because we believe it's the norm? So that we can buy 'things'? Who's to say that we should conform?
An elderly man once said to me 'We don't grow old wishing we'd worked more, we grow old wishing we'd done more'.
Cheddar , what line of work are you in that is flexible enough for you to work when you choose ? I'm mortgage free but not rich (to all the 'when I'm mortgage free' people, the bills don't suddenly stop!), I just decided that I didn't want to be a semi arthritic 65 year old that had given his best years to the establishment.
I live a simple, frugal life in a relatively humble house in the countryside and always know that I can earn money if I need to.
Some would be bored with a similar existence but I've travelled extensively to over 60 countries, owned around 60 cars, served time in the military, felt affluent, gone hungry, run various small businesses, loved and lost and I'm now slowly working on my shack and surrounding garden, playing bad golf and trying to stay out of the city as long as possible.
Why should we work 5+ days/40+ hours each week and endure tortuous commutes? Because we believe it's the norm? So that we can buy 'things'? Who's to say that we should conform?
An elderly man once said to me 'We don't grow old wishing we'd worked more, we grow old wishing we'd done more'.
I lived in London for nearly a year, worked there for a few months after moving out of London. The commute when living there wasn't fun. The commute when not living there wasn't fun either. I'd have to be in London for 8:20am to get to my office for 9am, which meant leaving home around half 6. I would usually get home at around half 7. I wasn't on a great wage at the time either.
If I was to work in Reading, it would mean leaving home at 7 to get there for 9, and then get home for around half 7 again.
In a car averaging 40mpg I would spend a further £2600 a year on travel, plus wear and tear on the car.
So based on that, I would need to earn £2600 extra after deductions. Taking my lost time into consideration, I'd need compensating for that as well, so lets say another £5k after deductions. So reckoning on over £10k a year extra to at least try and make it worthwhile.
If I was to work in Reading, it would mean leaving home at 7 to get there for 9, and then get home for around half 7 again.
In a car averaging 40mpg I would spend a further £2600 a year on travel, plus wear and tear on the car.
So based on that, I would need to earn £2600 extra after deductions. Taking my lost time into consideration, I'd need compensating for that as well, so lets say another £5k after deductions. So reckoning on over £10k a year extra to at least try and make it worthwhile.
havoc said:
Conversely there are a lot of people (mostly young and without commitments, or at least without kids) who enjoy the post-work social circle and the immediate / easy access to all manner of gigs, shows, comedians and top restaurants that those of us who live in the (comparative) sticks have to make plans and sacrifices for.
I've missed a bunch of gigs in my younger days, for example, because the band in question only played in London (or at a festival*), and the London gig's been on a weekday when my last train back would mean leaving the gig half-way through the main act. And the train fare would have trebled / quadrupled the cost of the concert.
Also how many plays are only performed in London? (+ in SuA if Shakespeare)
...and how many of the best restaurants are in London? Vs how many are north of Birmingham, say?
etc. etc...
We're all saying life is about more than just work...but if you've no kids or other commitments, then life is (for me) about experiences more than posessions, and London DOES offer a lot more opportunities in that regard than any other city in the UK...so there are positives there too...
* Not really into paying close to £100 to see one band I want to and 30 I don't...especially when I was younger and didn't have that sort of cash.
All valid points. I grew up in Hull before moving to Sheffield, London and now Aylesbury. I am close enough to London (1 hour, last train around midnight) to be able to do stuff if I want, but Sunday to Thursday evenings I generally spend at home, though my Sunday evenings will soon be taken up by a pool league I have joined, but that is by the by. I've missed a bunch of gigs in my younger days, for example, because the band in question only played in London (or at a festival*), and the London gig's been on a weekday when my last train back would mean leaving the gig half-way through the main act. And the train fare would have trebled / quadrupled the cost of the concert.
Also how many plays are only performed in London? (+ in SuA if Shakespeare)
...and how many of the best restaurants are in London? Vs how many are north of Birmingham, say?
etc. etc...
We're all saying life is about more than just work...but if you've no kids or other commitments, then life is (for me) about experiences more than posessions, and London DOES offer a lot more opportunities in that regard than any other city in the UK...so there are positives there too...
* Not really into paying close to £100 to see one band I want to and 30 I don't...especially when I was younger and didn't have that sort of cash.
I'm 37 in a few months so still young, but my last job battered me, so for now I am more than happy taking it easy, especially if I have to earn another £10k just to break even on travel costs..
vsonix said:
Another great thing about stepping back from a 9-5 is that you can learn to be more self-sufficient so you find you don't need to be grinding away at the coalface quite so hard anyway.
You can spend more time in the garden or down the allotment growing your own food. Learn to maintain your own vehicle so you don't have to pay a shop £50 just to diagnose a misfire. Save hundreds on routine maintenance, replacing sensors, oil changes etc.
Learn to brew so you have a near constant supply of great beer for pennies instead of pounds per bottle. Invest more time in cooking and preparing quality meals thereby diminishing the need to waste money on take-aways and eating out. Only buy clothes you want or need to wear instead of a whole separate wardrobe for sitting in the office. Go to the bank or supermarket at 2pm on a Tuesday when it's quiet and there are no queues. No more having to drive/travel in rush hour unless it's absolutely necessary. Life is generally so much easier, smoother and cheaper when you're not forced into keeping the same hours as everyone else.
TBH a lot of that applies to me already. I don't pay garages often etc for the bigger jobs, I don't buy clothes for the sake of it, I go to work in jeans, trainers and shirt / t-shirt, I work in the town centre and I can pop out when I want, my boss is VERY easy going. I pass my local Aldi on the way home so will pop in there sometimes and pick up a few bits and bats. My life contains little stress tbh, only the stress that I create..You can spend more time in the garden or down the allotment growing your own food. Learn to maintain your own vehicle so you don't have to pay a shop £50 just to diagnose a misfire. Save hundreds on routine maintenance, replacing sensors, oil changes etc.
Learn to brew so you have a near constant supply of great beer for pennies instead of pounds per bottle. Invest more time in cooking and preparing quality meals thereby diminishing the need to waste money on take-aways and eating out. Only buy clothes you want or need to wear instead of a whole separate wardrobe for sitting in the office. Go to the bank or supermarket at 2pm on a Tuesday when it's quiet and there are no queues. No more having to drive/travel in rush hour unless it's absolutely necessary. Life is generally so much easier, smoother and cheaper when you're not forced into keeping the same hours as everyone else.
havoc said:
TheAngryDog said:
... still young, but my last job battered me, so for now I am more than happy taking it easy, especially if I have to earn another £10k just to break even on travel costs..
I can relate to that.
(That said, I've taken on a 1hr commute, albeit with a lot less stress / aggro)
good luck with the new job!
dazwalsh said:
I was never really content with any of my jobs from 17-25, could work my nuts off and go places within organisations but the thought of one day the company just going bust and being out on my arse at the bottom of the pecking order got to me. Was never really happy no matter what wage slip said. I told myself even if it had a zero on the end I would still feel that way.
Made a change at 26 and and started out on my own, no more PAYE, ttish management or lining the pockets of some other person. It was liberating. Now I love my work, and feel very fortunate that after several years of graft I am now able to dial up or down the amount of work I chose to do.
I wouldn't mind being self employed, though I have a lot to risk now. Also my line of work is getting cut back on the contract side of things / isn't financially worth it at my level.Made a change at 26 and and started out on my own, no more PAYE, t
tish management or lining the pockets of some other person. It was liberating. Now I love my work, and feel very fortunate that after several years of graft I am now able to dial up or down the amount of work I chose to do. okgo said:
Pretty sure I do not really work any harder or tax my brain more now on decent money than I did when I was on st money 8 years ago in the same industry. I do work slightly longer hours, but we're talking maybe an hour a day. London based also.
I guess it depends on your occupation. I am a Systems Admin and these jobs aren't massively well paid. I think I am well paid considering.t money 8 years ago in the same industry. I do work slightly longer hours, but we're talking maybe an hour a day. London based also.Edited by okgo on Thursday 18th January 16:47
FocusRS3 said:
Testaburger said:
As El Stovey eloquently explained, I'm a firm believer that mindset is the biggest factor in contentment/happiness. I'd caveat that with 'within limits'.
We're all wired differently, I appreciate that; but in my experience of various jobs within my industry over the years, I can't say one has made me happier overall than another.
I've had rubbish jobs for rubbish money, great jobs for rubbish money, rubbish jobs for great money etc, and although each one creates or removes stressors and personal/professional challenges, my overall happiness hasn't changed as a result.
Consequently, I made a choice on lifestyle (note, not happiness) when it came to my job. It's decently paid, affords me lots of time off and is compatible with my personal life. It has a suitable degree of challenge, and I work with great folks. I may as well continue my professional status-quo, but, regardless of the breezy nature of my work/life balance, it hasn't had a material effect on my happiness - nor did the rubbish jobs I've had.
What makes us happy is very personal, but I believe we all feel a very real benefit from love, friendship, kindness in both directions, and health. I've got a roof over my head and food on the table, so that's the main points covered - but without my very close marriage, or without a couple of beers with friends, laughter, being kind and a positive mindset; my job can piss up a rope.
Great post . We're all wired differently, I appreciate that; but in my experience of various jobs within my industry over the years, I can't say one has made me happier overall than another.
I've had rubbish jobs for rubbish money, great jobs for rubbish money, rubbish jobs for great money etc, and although each one creates or removes stressors and personal/professional challenges, my overall happiness hasn't changed as a result.
Consequently, I made a choice on lifestyle (note, not happiness) when it came to my job. It's decently paid, affords me lots of time off and is compatible with my personal life. It has a suitable degree of challenge, and I work with great folks. I may as well continue my professional status-quo, but, regardless of the breezy nature of my work/life balance, it hasn't had a material effect on my happiness - nor did the rubbish jobs I've had.
What makes us happy is very personal, but I believe we all feel a very real benefit from love, friendship, kindness in both directions, and health. I've got a roof over my head and food on the table, so that's the main points covered - but without my very close marriage, or without a couple of beers with friends, laughter, being kind and a positive mindset; my job can piss up a rope.
I’ve had some great jobs with great people for s
t money and big pay working with insecure coonts . All That matters now is my family and I don’t miss the toys . You get bored of them anyhow
FocusRS3 said:
Herbs said:
Well said,
I'm 38 and seen both sides of chasing the money. In a nutshell I am driven but with a work to live, not live to work matra.
I've setup and run my own business
Ive had a child
I've had Aston Martins
I've had holidays to the Maldives
I've had a six figure salary
But
I've lost both parents in the space of 18 months
I've worked long hours
I've worked 6-7 day weeks
Suffer with stress and insomnia
I've lost my fiance and mother of my child as she played away whilst I worked so she didn't have to
I've gone from 3 properties to 1 (soon to be 2 again )
I spent a year living in my brothers spare room living out of a suitcase with Thomas the Tank wallpaper whilst paying for the house she lived in.
In the end:
I sold the business
Took a Monday to Friday 0830 to 1730 job
Earn 50% of what I used to
Became happy
I now have the right balance, I am happy.
I have multiple holidays (some abroad, most UK) a year, I see my friends more, the stress is less and life has never been better.
I am still driven and always want to be the best I can but not at the expense of life or health
How terribly nice of your ex to play 'hide the savaloy' with someone behind your back whilst you worked like a Trojan so she didn't have to work.I'm 38 and seen both sides of chasing the money. In a nutshell I am driven but with a work to live, not live to work matra.
I've setup and run my own business
Ive had a child
I've had Aston Martins
I've had holidays to the Maldives
I've had a six figure salary
But
I've lost both parents in the space of 18 months
I've worked long hours
I've worked 6-7 day weeks
Suffer with stress and insomnia
I've lost my fiance and mother of my child as she played away whilst I worked so she didn't have to
I've gone from 3 properties to 1 (soon to be 2 again
)I spent a year living in my brothers spare room living out of a suitcase with Thomas the Tank wallpaper whilst paying for the house she lived in.
In the end:
I sold the business
Took a Monday to Friday 0830 to 1730 job
Earn 50% of what I used to
Became happy
I now have the right balance, I am happy.
I have multiple holidays (some abroad, most UK) a year, I see my friends more, the stress is less and life has never been better.
I am still driven and always want to be the best I can but not at the expense of life or health
Happened to a mate of mine who worked away whilst she 'played away the he came home from work one day and she'd moved 300 miles away and taken the kids with her.
Needless to say the bloke she ran off with soon got bored with someone else's kids and bolted but not before whacking her over the head with a phone . I hate saying this but at the time i didn't feel sorry for her in the least
), My wife earns slightly more than me (though I take home more as she has a student loan to pay), is in a managerial role (I only manage the computers, she has to manage actual people). and we work in the same company. I wouldn't want her job for all of the tea in china But I know that she is very unlikely to the above to me, at least I hope so 
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