Discussion
I am kinship carer to two nieces following the death of their mum. The younger one we adopted when she was a toddler, now 8, the older one has just come to us aged 11. Her grandparents have had her for a decade but couldn't manage as grandad has just lost a leg and had a stroke.
The older one suffers from trichotillomania (hair pulling) so I have arranged CBT. It's going to take her a while to settle in, but she is bright and articulate, if fairly anxious and socially awkward. I can see the way forward.
Unfortunately I can't say the same for my adopted daughter. I have begun to suspect aspergers over the last few months, and since the arrival of her sister things have just got rapidly worse. I already have a GP appointment booked but wondered if other parents could offer any advice. A couple of members of the wider family are on the spectrum, and in my daughter's case, the signs are;
Lack of depth of social interaction with other children, plays alongside rather than with them, and tries to control them, struggles to make friends, finds it difficult to compromise or empathise so spends a lot of time huffing rather than interacting
Little interest in imaginative play and toys/dolls, but will play board games, computer games, obsessively watch TV shows over again, plays sports, balls, bikes
Meltdowns/1h plus tantrums, particularly at transitions like bedtime and leaving places, or if sudden changes are made, or obsessions/demands are thwarted (e.g. If losing a game). Time outs etc are useless, as are cuddles.
Lack of eye contact, particularly when angry
Sensitive about clothing, no buttons, hard elastic, denim etc.
Imitation of TV characters and dominant people in her life. Will unconsciously repeat behaviours and sayings, right down to inflection and intonation, especially a problem as she has become obsessed with Tracey Beaker and granddad has started swearing uncontrollably since his stroke
Obsessional, particularly about people. Will latch onto one person and try to control them.
Very literal in interpretation, which may lead to misunderstandings, accuses people of lying to her
Destroys items in strange ways. Went through a phase of cutting holes in her leggings, another of pulling hand off clocks (still dislikes clocks and won't have one in her room)
Doesn't understand personal boundaries, will repeatedly take personal items from drawers and bags, including sometimes money, even when told not to
Hates to be "taught" which delays learning
She has always had a temper. Even as a baby she would become enraged at people laughing. She struggled with tantrums when she started school and in year 3 was still becoming tearful on a daily basis. I had thought she would grow out of it, but she is getting worse. Meltdowns are pretty much daily.
She can be utterly lovely in a 1 to 1 situation especially if getting her own way. I just wish I knew how to help her the rest do the time. She must be thoroughly miserable, as am I.
The older one suffers from trichotillomania (hair pulling) so I have arranged CBT. It's going to take her a while to settle in, but she is bright and articulate, if fairly anxious and socially awkward. I can see the way forward.
Unfortunately I can't say the same for my adopted daughter. I have begun to suspect aspergers over the last few months, and since the arrival of her sister things have just got rapidly worse. I already have a GP appointment booked but wondered if other parents could offer any advice. A couple of members of the wider family are on the spectrum, and in my daughter's case, the signs are;
Lack of depth of social interaction with other children, plays alongside rather than with them, and tries to control them, struggles to make friends, finds it difficult to compromise or empathise so spends a lot of time huffing rather than interacting
Little interest in imaginative play and toys/dolls, but will play board games, computer games, obsessively watch TV shows over again, plays sports, balls, bikes
Meltdowns/1h plus tantrums, particularly at transitions like bedtime and leaving places, or if sudden changes are made, or obsessions/demands are thwarted (e.g. If losing a game). Time outs etc are useless, as are cuddles.
Lack of eye contact, particularly when angry
Sensitive about clothing, no buttons, hard elastic, denim etc.
Imitation of TV characters and dominant people in her life. Will unconsciously repeat behaviours and sayings, right down to inflection and intonation, especially a problem as she has become obsessed with Tracey Beaker and granddad has started swearing uncontrollably since his stroke
Obsessional, particularly about people. Will latch onto one person and try to control them.
Very literal in interpretation, which may lead to misunderstandings, accuses people of lying to her
Destroys items in strange ways. Went through a phase of cutting holes in her leggings, another of pulling hand off clocks (still dislikes clocks and won't have one in her room)
Doesn't understand personal boundaries, will repeatedly take personal items from drawers and bags, including sometimes money, even when told not to
Hates to be "taught" which delays learning
She has always had a temper. Even as a baby she would become enraged at people laughing. She struggled with tantrums when she started school and in year 3 was still becoming tearful on a daily basis. I had thought she would grow out of it, but she is getting worse. Meltdowns are pretty much daily.
She can be utterly lovely in a 1 to 1 situation especially if getting her own way. I just wish I knew how to help her the rest do the time. She must be thoroughly miserable, as am I.
Thanks for sharing. I had forgotten about hair brushing/washing. Tangle tamers are your friend.
My daughter's school have highlighted her behaviour on a number of occasions e.g. Getting overwrought and latching into other children, but Aspergers hasn't been considered.
I have another niece with sensory processing disorder and a cousin who very clearly has aspergers but isn't diagnosed (very geeky, only eats a small range of food items, very literal in manner with no conversation).
I am seeing the doc at the end of next week, so we'll see what happens.
My daughter's school have highlighted her behaviour on a number of occasions e.g. Getting overwrought and latching into other children, but Aspergers hasn't been considered.
I have another niece with sensory processing disorder and a cousin who very clearly has aspergers but isn't diagnosed (very geeky, only eats a small range of food items, very literal in manner with no conversation).
I am seeing the doc at the end of next week, so we'll see what happens.
Thanks Amanda. I think the clocks issue relates to the movement of the hands somehow worrying her when she is trying to sleep.
Clothes wise she can cope with the school uniform because it's the rules to wear it, as long as we don't make her wear long sleeves and she gets the zip option where available.
Her classroom has seemed quite chaotic this year. My daughter is just scraping through academically at the lower end of normal for her age. She is on the bottom table so gets some extra support.
I work full time as main earner so we are very reliant on after school childcare. Not ideal but I have no alternative at the moment.
Clothes wise she can cope with the school uniform because it's the rules to wear it, as long as we don't make her wear long sleeves and she gets the zip option where available.
Her classroom has seemed quite chaotic this year. My daughter is just scraping through academically at the lower end of normal for her age. She is on the bottom table so gets some extra support.
I work full time as main earner so we are very reliant on after school childcare. Not ideal but I have no alternative at the moment.
As an update, we don't have any CAMHS services in the area at the moment. GP has advised we self refer to an autism centre.
What is interesting is the similarities between attachment disorder and autism symptoms. I've found a journal article which has a grid comparing the two and it does look a bit more like attachment disorder.
What is interesting is the similarities between attachment disorder and autism symptoms. I've found a journal article which has a grid comparing the two and it does look a bit more like attachment disorder.
Just by way of an update, the school think she's fine, which has knocked any referral on the head.
Our adoption social worker,from our description if behaviour on the phone,considers attachment issues the most likely scenario and suggested a few things to try.
Things are a bit calmer now the kids are settled back at school so fingers crossed it stays that way.
Our adoption social worker,from our description if behaviour on the phone,considers attachment issues the most likely scenario and suggested a few things to try.
Things are a bit calmer now the kids are settled back at school so fingers crossed it stays that way.
AMLK said:
Does anyone have any experience with melatonin? My daughter's school have suggested that it might benefit her as she is having real problems sleeping. She says when she goes to bed bad thoughts come and she struggles switching off.
We went to the GP today. He thinks she would benefit but only a paediatric can prescribe it. He has referred her hoping they will tie the referral in with her Aspergers referral.
We are currently trying her on Bach's night rescue.
Any advice or suggestions would be very welcome.
Sorry for hijacking your thread oldbanger.
Just noticed you never got a reply - sorryWe went to the GP today. He thinks she would benefit but only a paediatric can prescribe it. He has referred her hoping they will tie the referral in with her Aspergers referral.
We are currently trying her on Bach's night rescue.
Any advice or suggestions would be very welcome.
Sorry for hijacking your thread oldbanger.
I have no experience of melantonin. I have a mindfulness for kids bedtime cd which seems to help a bit.
Good to read that the melantonin has helped. I've not progressed any referrals for mine as the school wouldn't support a self referral for the younger child. The older one's counsellor asked that I have her assessed for ASD, but at this stage I still have the self referral hurdle. There is a mountain of paper to produce first.
Both kids are calmer than they were in the summer, and I think partly it is down to attempts to follow the advice of a great little book "The Explosive Child". Both kids still have their blow outs but it's definitely less frequent, which is great as I am totally shattered and the husband is very grumpy.
Both kids are calmer than they were in the summer, and I think partly it is down to attempts to follow the advice of a great little book "The Explosive Child". Both kids still have their blow outs but it's definitely less frequent, which is great as I am totally shattered and the husband is very grumpy.
Thanks for all the replies.
I have spoken to the GP about the older child but again, they apparently can't make a referral. So I will have to sort it myself. And they can't offer anything else until she's been assessed as the outcome will affect what services she can have,
Meanwhile, things really are rough going.
The anniversary of their birth mum's death is coming up in 2 weeks. The older child has been worrying about it since November and the younger one has been really affected - to the stage of having huge meltdowns again, for example yesterday she started kicking me in the face and telling me that "God doesn't want you to live" when I tried to put her to bed. It doesn't help that it's the first week of a new class teacher as the old one went on maternity leave last week, so she is quite distressed in the morning about going to school too. It's been really tough to be honest and I am starting to feel quite shell shocked.
I am arranging bereavement counselling for the older child via school, will go speak to the shool again about the younger one, but in the meantime I'm not in a good place myself. I am usually the reliable one who gets everyone else sorted, so now I am struggling I appear to be on my own.
I have spoken to the GP about the older child but again, they apparently can't make a referral. So I will have to sort it myself. And they can't offer anything else until she's been assessed as the outcome will affect what services she can have,
Meanwhile, things really are rough going.
The anniversary of their birth mum's death is coming up in 2 weeks. The older child has been worrying about it since November and the younger one has been really affected - to the stage of having huge meltdowns again, for example yesterday she started kicking me in the face and telling me that "God doesn't want you to live" when I tried to put her to bed. It doesn't help that it's the first week of a new class teacher as the old one went on maternity leave last week, so she is quite distressed in the morning about going to school too. It's been really tough to be honest and I am starting to feel quite shell shocked.
I am arranging bereavement counselling for the older child via school, will go speak to the shool again about the younger one, but in the meantime I'm not in a good place myself. I am usually the reliable one who gets everyone else sorted, so now I am struggling I appear to be on my own.
Thanks. I've also come across the Curly Hair Project which looks like a good resource.
A good day today. After a week of angry outbursts about not wanting to go, the older chilld has managed to perform with her class at the school Christmas concert. And very good she was too.
I may have even got dust in my eye.
A good day today. After a week of angry outbursts about not wanting to go, the older chilld has managed to perform with her class at the school Christmas concert. And very good she was too.
I may have even got dust in my eye.Just by way of an update, I did a referral for my niece to be assessed to a local autism centre as advised by the GP but have had a letter back saying they don't accept referrals unless they come from schools or professionals. I will speak to the school but suspect that I am not going to get anywhere.
Mad4amanda I hadn't spotted your offer of taking it to PM. Am I OK to drop you a line?
Mad4amanda I hadn't spotted your offer of taking it to PM. Am I OK to drop you a line?
From September my older girl wouldn't get up for school and would kick/punch if you tried getting her up. She would say she was ill every day because when she lived with grandma she would allow her a day off school. She actually achieved 100% attendance for the first time ever last term (I checked with grandma) but it was sheer determination and very wearing.
She is really obsessed with not having curly hair (it's very curly as it's only a couple of inches long - it used to be right down her back before she started pulling). We recently managed to convince her to allow a hairdresser she is fairly familiar with to style it - and got a really nice lulu style bob that needs straightening every day.
I have to leave the house by 7:30 sharp and thee weeks on she's now up by at least 7:20 to let me touch it up and get the overnight kinks out. The downside is I have had to learn how to blow dry and straighten (in middle age), and end up doing my own hair on the way to the car (it gets put into the same bun every day so it's <1 minute's work)
She is really obsessed with not having curly hair (it's very curly as it's only a couple of inches long - it used to be right down her back before she started pulling). We recently managed to convince her to allow a hairdresser she is fairly familiar with to style it - and got a really nice lulu style bob that needs straightening every day.
I have to leave the house by 7:30 sharp and thee weeks on she's now up by at least 7:20 to let me touch it up and get the overnight kinks out. The downside is I have had to learn how to blow dry and straighten (in middle age), and end up doing my own hair on the way to the car (it gets put into the same bun every day so it's <1 minute's work)
AMLK said:
Looking for a bit of advice if possible. As a general rule things have been better since our daughter had been on melatonin, but we still have a couple of big issues.
The one that causes the most arguments and meltdowns is getting ready for school. School itself is not a problem, she loves it and now has a couple of really good friends. The issue is getting out of bed, getting dressed, hair brushed and cleaning teeth. She is so stubborn and will not do anything we ask of her in the mornings. She doesn't care if she is late for school. I am frequently in tears after she has left as it is such a hassle, and she has even hit me if I try and help with her coat or shoes. I am at the end of my tether and really don't know what to do.
The other issue is getting her to do her homework. She finds it boring and unnecessary. She was in trouble on Monday at school as she had not completed it all. Trying to get get to do always seems to end in an argument.
If anyone has any advice I would be extremely grateful.
I have had a couple of thoughts.. I have put a spare daylight desk lamp (SAD lamp) into my older girl's bedroom and usually stick that on around 7 am. You can get ones incorprated into alarm clocks that come on gradually. I am not sure it has helped completely, but it does play some part I think, though the hair styling has clinched it. I personally swear by my dawn simulator alarm though so I am a bit biased.The one that causes the most arguments and meltdowns is getting ready for school. School itself is not a problem, she loves it and now has a couple of really good friends. The issue is getting out of bed, getting dressed, hair brushed and cleaning teeth. She is so stubborn and will not do anything we ask of her in the mornings. She doesn't care if she is late for school. I am frequently in tears after she has left as it is such a hassle, and she has even hit me if I try and help with her coat or shoes. I am at the end of my tether and really don't know what to do.
The other issue is getting her to do her homework. She finds it boring and unnecessary. She was in trouble on Monday at school as she had not completed it all. Trying to get get to do always seems to end in an argument.
If anyone has any advice I would be extremely grateful.
I also read recently on an aspergers blog (http://www.myaspergerschild.com/) that calling it "study" may help. Creating a study area and study time, where they can do their homework or do other study. I am very lucky though in that my older girl is obsessed with avoiding "debits" so will always try to get it done but she also goes to homework club before school and during lunch so does a lot of it before she gets home. That might help as well - if the school offers homework clubs or quiet areas like this.
Something else I am going to try, particularly with my younger one, is writing social stories to explain some of the behaviours they don't grasp. I actually used to do this with her when she was little without realising what it was. There's an article here http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2009/11/teaching-c... which makes me smile every time I read it, as we're still grappling with the "3 tasks to do after the loo" with my nearly 9 year old and one of the examples covers just that.
Edited by oldbanger on Thursday 21st January 23:17
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