Fitness gurus on the juice...

[Tiggsy]

I have a little (and I mean LITTLE) youtube channel that I occasional put something on that relates to my fitness regime. The other day I had a comment from someone in relation to an ultra marathon I'd run which was basically saying....you do that at 220lbs + you must be on gear. I laughed it off as I don't look remotely big but...as my endurance times get better, I came 3rd in a 10 mile trail run the other day, I am finishing with people much smaller than me. And I'm on TRT - so a grey area. With a couple of thousand subs (tiny) I pondered what my response would be if asked outright - I don't want to dilute my message which is "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort" but wouldn't want to outright lie. Anyway, for me, with my dinky little hobby channel it's neither here nor there really.

But it sent me down a rabbit hole watching big name fitness guys on youtube who claim natty. I have no issue with The Rock, the entire cast of Avengers and Huge Jackman all cruising and blasting (or blasting and blasting for Mr Rock) as it results in a cool movie! But the Youtube guys are selling stuff - supps, programmes......at the very least they are pushing a way of eating and training. And the comments are staggering......anyone calling foul is treated like a flat earther! It reminds me of the blind faith I had in Arnold in the 80's when I sent of my £19.99 to buy the armblaster from the back of M&F.

It would be so easy for these guys to just post up their blood work and show they are clean....instead they make a "hey, I'm natty" video and get another 1m views!

So......no big deal and no different to the 80's mags - or nuts and 16 year old boys (I have one) need lessons at school that fitness on Youtube is about as real as sex on pornhub???

[Tiggsy]

popeyewhite said:

How was your running before you started TRT? 220 lbs is about 100kg, pretty heavy to be winning races at. Unless there's not many in the race

It was ok and I’m only a few months into TRT so I don’t attribute anything much to it yet. I’m not winning by a long way, but up with smaller guys. Running sub 20m 5ks at 220lbs and 46 is odd.....it’s not elite stuff though 😄. This year will be the test, I have a full on year of ocr racing that I aim to a) do ok in and b) keep my size. So, as with the running, I won’t be winning.....but I’ll be bigger than guys around me. Last year the training to maintain that was tough and the inclusion of running ultras to build endurance was starting to take its toll. The last few months, on TRT, have felt a lot better.

[Tiggsy]

Olivera said:

Tiggsy said:

And I'm on TRT - so a grey area.

It's on the prohibited WADA list, unless you have a genuine TUE.

I mean in relation to this issue of fitness influencers. Cheating in sport is a different game.

[Tiggsy]

mcelliott said:

Doesn't bother me more than that, as long as they're up front about it, however I will make an exception for Ross Edgley, happy to answer any question,
on nutrition and training, however not so forthcoming when I posed the question on what drugs he's taking.

Perfect example - of which there are many.

If I was him, and my living depends on how I look and how I create that...and 99% of people that lift where saying "not natty" I'd simply stick my blood work online and suddenly elevate myself above EVERY other influencer. Of course, if I was on gear I'd accept it was obvious to many but there's enough people new to fitness that will buy into me for it not to matter.

[Tiggsy]

But most aren’t up front and the vast majority of fans have no idea. Fans paying for programs, supplements, books, subscribers, etc

[Tiggsy]

Jim on the hill said:

Your message of "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort" needs to be "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort and TRT" otherwise it's incorrect I'm afraid.

Even if it's medical the target market you are trying to tell can be as fit as you may need the same help you are having.

Not a dig just an observation

My point is not to be as fit as me - it's that you can be better than most with some effort and being there is a cool place to be. You (I) didn't need TRT to get that! I started Parkrun at 23 stone and walking every 20 yards......after some effort I got to being in the top half of all runners. The day that happened was as much an achievement as now making the top 10 most days. I applied that approach to all manner of things last year - running, ultras, OCR, paddle board, cycling, rowing. All drug free. Slightly off point though!

[Tiggsy]

ORD said:

I do not know much about the effects of PEDs on running. I would guess that TRT helps with recovery, but carrying extra mass is probably a big downside. I don't think OP is cheating (or, if he is, it probably is not making a big difference).

It helps me recover and stay motivated which helps me train. So it's a knock on effect.

Yes - extra mass means I'm slower than I could be but my goal is to be as good as I can be and not look like a runner. So I get my cake and eat it.

As for why run....I hear you! Never did till a couple of years ago......now there's just something cool about being able to just go a run for hours and hours. Feels very empowering. Also, an easy way for Joe Blogs to compete in life. I have a run tomorrow - me V 200 others. By lunch I'll know where I stack against them in a really simple/primal way. None of this my car is better than yours......my job is more important....just "I was faster than most of you". As a regular old 46 year old, I get few chances to compete in life - same for most of us - yet for thousands of years that was all we did, every day. Did you get killed today? No, cool...you won the day!

[Tiggsy]

R.Sole said:

Did the doctor prescribe you TRT?

yes

[Tiggsy]

Jim on the hill said:

I see what you are saying and before the TRT I'd say you were correct. Your question was about disclosure and I just stating in my opinion it's not fair to not disclose it. Sure many don't but you know that already.

Yes - although I am not selling anything other than a positive message to a tiny number of people that message is true whether I am on TRT, gear or heroin! I'm not saying "get jacked like me - buy my BCAA"

[Tiggsy]

popeyewhite said:

Tiggsy said:

It helps me recover and stay motivated which helps me train. So it's a knock on effect.

The greatest effect t will have on your running will be elevated haemoglobin levels, hence more oxygen getting to your muscles. It's not the best PED for that effect, but its effect will be notable even at TRT levels of t in blood serum.

It's all a bit swings and roundabouts - It also lets me retain more mass than I normally would despite the big miles I clock up...and the mass slows me down.

100% the biggest affect is on motivation and lethargy - I train more often and harder due to my head more than my bod.

[Tiggsy]

egor110 said:

Which trail run did you come 3rd in ?

It was a 10 mile run down near Winchester. I actually ran it with my dog so they class you different as a canicross runner because some people with bigger dogs will get pulled round. The fastest canicross parkrun is under the 5k WR!!!! But my dog is a little jack Russell so he’s not pulling anything

[Tiggsy]

R.Sole said:

z4RRSchris said:

why are you taking TRT? pretty odd

Testosterone levels must have been very low due to hypogonadism.

This

[Tiggsy]

egor110 said:

Which run ?

I do a few of the whitestar races down there .

There's a bodybuilder on YouTube who's training for a Ironman , he's been filming how he and his training has changed as he's progressed .

East Meon loop was the run. As someone has mentioned, this is the fun run end of the spectrum..... but it’s still 165 runners so while 3rd is not “off the Olympics” stuff.....it’s 3rd!!

Do you mean Nick Bare in you tube? He is carry a lot of mass for someone banging out 6 min miles with ease.....yet claims 100% natty.

[Tiggsy]

Four Litre said:

I'm pretty open about it with my mates, they all constantly ask me for some as they are declining physically, whereas I seem to be doing the opposite!

Same. Sport/competition aside, to have low levels and NOT supplement test is as daft as not wearing glasses for poor eye sight or take an inhaler for asthma. Does annoy my teenage kids though as they thought they’d be alpha makes in the house by now 😂

[Tiggsy]

ChocolateFrog said:

From previous steroid abuse

Sorry I'm just pulling your leg. It's a pet hate of mine seeing all these younger guys duped into spending lots of money by all the (never in a million years) "natty's" desperately trying to sell them their diet or exercise plan.

There's no better feeling than being stronger than someone with powder muscles in a gym context atleast.

I did a couple of cycles of VERY low levels of gear over 25 years ago. Not enough to screw with my results at 45 so just unlucky for me.

Agree with the young people naive to the youtube celebs. I make sure my kids know the golden rule....if the shirt comes off and they make money, be suspicious.

[Tiggsy]

Four Litre said:

For sure, I guarantee 99% of Hollywood males over 30 are on it...

Be odd if they weren’t. Millions on the line....pretty safe (if not beneficial over 40) to do at sensible levels, cheap, easy, works. I expect it’s contractural!

[Tiggsy]

And the cost isn’t bc even that high. My gym
Membership, trainer shoe budget, race fees, supplements even....all the same or more as my test.

The US is interesting as their TRT doses are pretty much double the UK. When it’s more mainstream here I wonder if clinics will give scripts for higher amounts to keep clients from shopping around?

[Tiggsy]

popeyewhite said:

But when I point out out he's unnaturally reinvigorated he becomes irritated.

Odd...I love being unnaturally reinvigorated. Nothing about me is natural. I have bits of plastic in my eyes so I can see ok, without asthma meds as a kid I'd be dead, natural is overrated.

It also depends on what you think of the aging process - as far as I'm concerned, aging after 35 is not a "process" the human body goes through - like puberty. It's the start of death. At 46 I had my 4th kid 13 years ago. My eldest has her own kids, my middle son is 6ft7. In nature.....I'm done. Why would my body go through any "process" at this stage? My kids can take it from here. What possible benefit does it serve the human race for me to change in any way that benefits me? I'm dying. Low test, poor eye sight, etc, etc - that is not a natural development I should embrace, it's the wheels coming off.

Are there downsides yet to be seen from long term TRT....maybe. One can only be sensible. I get blood work done 4 times a year, prostate check every year, I am healthy. Compared to my school friends.....I seem the fittest 46 year old among us. Is something growing within that will bite me at 85? maybe....but what about them? The natural ones...what's coming for them - a gigantic list of aliments, associated with aging that I am avoiding. Am I going to fall and bust a brittle hip at 70.....no, I'll be fking jacked

[Tiggsy]

mcelliott said:

So if someone is on TRT and comes off it - will it accelerate natural hormone production even quicker? Or could they bring it back up to a level just through exercise and a healthier lifestyle?

You take T your body stops making it. You come off T and you have, at worse, very low T!!! At best some report it will creep back up to pre TRT levels if you're lucky. The advice to anyone starting is .... it's for life.

[Tiggsy]

popeyewhite said:

Well at least you're honest! with respect though you are quite a bit older than some undergoing TRT on this forum. Would your outlook be the same if you were just 40? (Sorry not sure about your current age).

I'm 46 - I agree with you. The TRT forums are full of people in their 20's asking about it.