Car clicks, doesn't start, engine won't turn. Help?
Discussion
So I've been working on my Toyota Corolla on and off for 2 years, and today it was meant to go in for an MOT so I could enjoy my hard work. However, the car point blank refuses to start. I put the key in the ignition, I turn it and I can hear a click and then nothing. The lights on the dashboard dim a little when I do this, and every time I go to start it when it gives this click. This is what I've done so far:
I went to Halfords and purchased a battery, and the car still won't start and gives the same result.
I took the starter off, and got that tested today. The starter is working fine, it spins and throws out the bendix gear. I've cleaned the contacts on the starter and fit it back to the car. Same thing happens.
I've cleaned the terminals on the battery with a wire brush and electrical contact cleaner. I refit them to the battery, still no joy.
I've cleaned the ground lead coming from the negative terminal that attaches to the gearbox. Same thing happens.
I ran a jump lead from the negative terminal on the battery and fit it on the front engine mount. Tried it again, same thing happens. Although, writing this now I can't remember if they chap who tested the starter said to remove the negative terminal from the battery and then use the jump lead, I did it with the negative terminal on the battery.
I've removed the spark plugs and they smell of petrol (they're brand new), and I tried to move the engine by hand and it won't move. During the work I took the gearbox off and flywheel as the oil seal on the engine was worn. I refitted the flywheel and it's been torqued to the specs in the Haynes manual I have for it. There is no locking nut on the engine, as I couldn't get one so fashioned one from some steel which is now in my toolbox. The car is out of gear as well.
So that's all I've tried, for obvious reasons I want to make sure that, electrically, I've done everything before I have to take the gearbox off again to check the flywheel etc. So I'd appreciate your help on this one.
I went to Halfords and purchased a battery, and the car still won't start and gives the same result.
I took the starter off, and got that tested today. The starter is working fine, it spins and throws out the bendix gear. I've cleaned the contacts on the starter and fit it back to the car. Same thing happens.
I've cleaned the terminals on the battery with a wire brush and electrical contact cleaner. I refit them to the battery, still no joy.
I've cleaned the ground lead coming from the negative terminal that attaches to the gearbox. Same thing happens.
I ran a jump lead from the negative terminal on the battery and fit it on the front engine mount. Tried it again, same thing happens. Although, writing this now I can't remember if they chap who tested the starter said to remove the negative terminal from the battery and then use the jump lead, I did it with the negative terminal on the battery.
I've removed the spark plugs and they smell of petrol (they're brand new), and I tried to move the engine by hand and it won't move. During the work I took the gearbox off and flywheel as the oil seal on the engine was worn. I refitted the flywheel and it's been torqued to the specs in the Haynes manual I have for it. There is no locking nut on the engine, as I couldn't get one so fashioned one from some steel which is now in my toolbox. The car is out of gear as well.
So that's all I've tried, for obvious reasons I want to make sure that, electrically, I've done everything before I have to take the gearbox off again to check the flywheel etc. So I'd appreciate your help on this one.
Thanks for the help everyone.
What I meant by "fashioning a lock nut" is that, from what I was reading at the time, is that you needing a special tool (or lock) that would stop the flywheel moving while you undid/tightened the bolts holding the flywheel in place. I couldn't find one for this Corolla, so I made one from a strip of steel where I bolted one end to the engine, and then there was another hole that held on to the flywheel. Because, before I did that ,it was moving. And that was a few months ago. That's how I know that hasn't been left in there because I only made one and it's sat in my toolbox at the moment.
I've tried it again with the biggest breaker bar I have, and it won't budge. I'll spray some Plusgas in to the cylinders and leave it overnight and try again tomorrow. Only issue I have with bump starting it is that I've got a gravel driveway and it's at the top of a slope. So I can bump start it down that slope, but if it doesn't start I'm going to struggle to move or push the car back up the driveway.
What I meant by "fashioning a lock nut" is that, from what I was reading at the time, is that you needing a special tool (or lock) that would stop the flywheel moving while you undid/tightened the bolts holding the flywheel in place. I couldn't find one for this Corolla, so I made one from a strip of steel where I bolted one end to the engine, and then there was another hole that held on to the flywheel. Because, before I did that ,it was moving. And that was a few months ago. That's how I know that hasn't been left in there because I only made one and it's sat in my toolbox at the moment.
I've tried it again with the biggest breaker bar I have, and it won't budge. I'll spray some Plusgas in to the cylinders and leave it overnight and try again tomorrow. Only issue I have with bump starting it is that I've got a gravel driveway and it's at the top of a slope. So I can bump start it down that slope, but if it doesn't start I'm going to struggle to move or push the car back up the driveway.
sunbeam alpine said:
OP - thanks for clarifying.
How long ago did you do the engine work? If it was only recently, and the engine could turn, then I would suspect that something somewhere is getting in the way. If it was much longer ago, maybe the engine has seizd and the oil will help!
Good luck!
No worries!How long ago did you do the engine work? If it was only recently, and the engine could turn, then I would suspect that something somewhere is getting in the way. If it was much longer ago, maybe the engine has seizd and the oil will help!
Good luck!
As for the engine work, I started it by dropping out the gearbox in January of this year, and then the gearbox was put back in March of this year. So yesterday was the first time it was started since that work. I had started it in October last year when I moved the car, so it wasn't seized then.
I am leaning more towards it being something I've done wrong with the fitting of the gearbox, clutch or flywheel. From a lot of Googling a lot of results come back with friction plates being the wrong way round etc. But I'll know when I take it off again.
GreenV8S said:
If the starter motor is working then holding the key in the 'crank' position for longer than a few seconds could damage it.
Have you turned this / similar engine over either with a bar on the crank pulley, or by nudging it over in gear? It takes quite a lot of torque but is quite easy to do by rocking it in a high gear. That will tell you once and for all whether it's really seized, or the more common start motor problem.
Yeah I have, I had my biggest breaker bar on the crank and it wouldn't budge. I did that with it not in gear and the plugs out so it should've moved.Have you turned this / similar engine over either with a bar on the crank pulley, or by nudging it over in gear? It takes quite a lot of torque but is quite easy to do by rocking it in a high gear. That will tell you once and for all whether it's really seized, or the more common start motor problem.
milkround said:
Do you have a multimeter?
If so connect it across the battery terminals. If you have a mater/wife/son etc ask them to turn the car over whilst you see the current dip. Otherwise use some pegs and position it against the windscreen. That will show you that the starter is drawing from the battery. You should expect to see the voltage drop a fair bit but ideally not below 10V. Unless you have some exotic equipment you won't be able to measure the current draw as it will be far too high for any meter most folk will have around the house. You'd melt the cables if you tried it and at least fry the fuse in your meter.
After that, you will know if the circuit is complete and if the battery is fully connecting with the starter.
Short of locking the flywheel off somehow, I'm not really sure what you could have done to cause it with a gearbox/clutch.
Yeah I've a multimeter, I'll ask the wife nicely to help me tonight for me to test it. From what I've read elsewhere though a lot of people have this issue if the clutch plate or bearing were fitted wrong. I don't think I did that but I won't know until I take it off really. If so connect it across the battery terminals. If you have a mater/wife/son etc ask them to turn the car over whilst you see the current dip. Otherwise use some pegs and position it against the windscreen. That will show you that the starter is drawing from the battery. You should expect to see the voltage drop a fair bit but ideally not below 10V. Unless you have some exotic equipment you won't be able to measure the current draw as it will be far too high for any meter most folk will have around the house. You'd melt the cables if you tried it and at least fry the fuse in your meter.
After that, you will know if the circuit is complete and if the battery is fully connecting with the starter.
Short of locking the flywheel off somehow, I'm not really sure what you could have done to cause it with a gearbox/clutch.
sunbeam alpine said:
I was tempted to suggest this, but if there's really something out of place which is preventing the engine from turning over, wouldn't it cause some damage?
Aye it would likely shear off the head of the bolt holding on crank pulley. Leaving the poor OP with much bigger problems. Edited by milkround on Tuesday 21st May 10:08
paintman said:
If you can't turn the engine over using your breaker bar then don't waste your time messing about with a multimeter as your problem is not electrical.
Is the engine not turning in either direction using the bar?
If it was turning when you did the clutch & flywheel on & off & isn't now then I'd suggest you've got something wrong in that area.
It doesn't turn in either direction. One way just tightens the bolt, the other way I loosen it. So it's stuck solid.Is the engine not turning in either direction using the bar?
If it was turning when you did the clutch & flywheel on & off & isn't now then I'd suggest you've got something wrong in that area.
milkround said:
sgtBerbatov said:
Yeah I've a multimeter, I'll ask the wife nicely to help me tonight for me to test it. From what I've read elsewhere though a lot of people have this issue if the clutch plate or bearing were fitted wrong. I don't think I did that but I won't know until I take it off really.
Yeah I'd agree. Probably telling you how to suck eggs here (and I'm no pro mechanic!). But if I was going to the effort to drop the gearbox and take the clutch off I'd spin the engine over when I was down to just the flywheel again. It will let you know for sure if it's something you have done. If the clutch was fitted the wrong way around it will usually turn over but won't engage the gears. Is it possible you have left something inside that is blocking the flywheel? Even a bolt or something could do that. If you have had the flywheel off did you use the original bolts? Helped a mate once who had new bolts. Which were slightly too big and he had the same problem.
I can't think of anything I could've left in there, that's the thing. I've no bolts left over and I've no places missing a bolt.
With the flywheel I used the original bolts, anything that came off went back on basically. Only thing I can think of that could be causing it might be the sheet of metal that goes between the engine block and the gearbox. But, again, that only goes on one way and it's on the right way.
I'm just going to have to drop the gearbox and see what's up.
tapkaJohnD said:
tell what you did to the engine?
J
I changed the rear oil seal (the seal on the side of the engine that connects to the gearbox), and I had to replace the seal on on the oil sump. Those are the only two jobs done on the engine. For the seal the flywheel had to come off as well as the gearbox.J
GreenV8S said:
sgtBerbatov said:
Well in fairness I'm not a pro mechanic either so I'm up for sucking any eggs
I can't think of anything I could've left in there, that's the thing. I've no bolts left over and I've no places missing a bolt.
With the flywheel I used the original bolts, anything that came off went back on basically. Only thing I can think of that could be causing it might be the sheet of metal that goes between the engine block and the gearbox. But, again, that only goes on one way and it's on the right way.
I'm just going to have to drop the gearbox and see what's up.
Any difficulty lining up the spigot bearing? If that didn't go in, you might have crushed the bearing and now have the crank jammed endways against the block.I can't think of anything I could've left in there, that's the thing. I've no bolts left over and I've no places missing a bolt.
With the flywheel I used the original bolts, anything that came off went back on basically. Only thing I can think of that could be causing it might be the sheet of metal that goes between the engine block and the gearbox. But, again, that only goes on one way and it's on the right way.
I'm just going to have to drop the gearbox and see what's up.
If that is the case, would I have likely damaged anything to the crank? Or will I be alright just realigning the gearbox again?
I thought I'd give an update about this.
I started loosening the bolts on the gearbox and with every bolt removed I tried to turn the engine by hand. No joy - until I took the starter motor off. The engine starts to move - brilliant, in a way.
The one thing I noticed was that when I took the starter off there was a "tang" sound. Can't really describe it, but when I put my finger in to where the starter goes, the metal plate between the gearbox and engine seems to have slipped down. I looked at the starter and I can see marks on the tip, so I am guessing that when I put the starter motor back in, the plate is pushing the motor down on to the flywheel causing it to jam.
So yeah, nothing wrong with the clutch or gearbox, it's the starter motor being in the wrong place. So tomorrow now, hopefully, I'll sort out the plate one way or the other.
I started loosening the bolts on the gearbox and with every bolt removed I tried to turn the engine by hand. No joy - until I took the starter motor off. The engine starts to move - brilliant, in a way.
The one thing I noticed was that when I took the starter off there was a "tang" sound. Can't really describe it, but when I put my finger in to where the starter goes, the metal plate between the gearbox and engine seems to have slipped down. I looked at the starter and I can see marks on the tip, so I am guessing that when I put the starter motor back in, the plate is pushing the motor down on to the flywheel causing it to jam.
So yeah, nothing wrong with the clutch or gearbox, it's the starter motor being in the wrong place. So tomorrow now, hopefully, I'll sort out the plate one way or the other.
Final update on this.
I spent the whole of bank holiday Monday dropping the gearbox out, the clutch and flywheel, and got to the plate. It's held in with one 10mm nut, and I loosened it. I fitted a gearbox bolt on to the engine to make sure the plate was aligned properly, tightened the screw, and in good ol' Haynes' manual tradition - refitting was the reversal of removal.
Fitted a lot of the bits back on, while checking to make sure the engine could turn by hand. Threw the stater back on, the engine could still move, so I turned the car on and it spluttered back to life! Still got driveshafts and other bits to fit before it goes for it's MOT but it's starting now and I couldn't be happier.
Thanks for the help guys!
I spent the whole of bank holiday Monday dropping the gearbox out, the clutch and flywheel, and got to the plate. It's held in with one 10mm nut, and I loosened it. I fitted a gearbox bolt on to the engine to make sure the plate was aligned properly, tightened the screw, and in good ol' Haynes' manual tradition - refitting was the reversal of removal.
Fitted a lot of the bits back on, while checking to make sure the engine could turn by hand. Threw the stater back on, the engine could still move, so I turned the car on and it spluttered back to life! Still got driveshafts and other bits to fit before it goes for it's MOT but it's starting now and I couldn't be happier.
Thanks for the help guys!
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