Engine flush and oil drain nut
Discussion
Evening, All.
Not new to PH but couldn't remember my login credentials from years back. Alas a new account was in order.
Hope everyone's keeping well in this fine weather.
I was until about an hour or so ago.
I purchased a Chevy Cruze recently for an absolute steal as a spare runaround for the summer. Had all the servicing items and tools ready, but tonight's DIY service ended up being left unfinished.
Two schools of thought i know in relation to engine flush. This being a budget runaround, I picked up the Silverhook stuff from Toolstation and put it in. Car came with no SH as it was taken in as a PX. It drives and runs spot on, but as I've said: a steal, so thought I'd go a bit further by using an engine flush.
Upon attempting to loosen the nut to drain the oil, I find the darn thing jammed, and I mean jammed.
So two issues, if anyone has found themselves in this situation:
1. I'm leaving the car with engine flush in it overnight. It's not been revved and I don't plan on driving it. Did this cause you any issues? Was thinking of idling the car subject to the below tomorrow to , but I fear the flush could have 'thinned' the oil out significantly by tomorrow assuming i get round to finishing off the job. Now thinking not to bother.
2. Obviously the old oil and engine flush will remain for as long as the nut remains jammed. Sprayed copper grease and left it. How did you approach the same?
Lastly, lesson learned: if you're going to use engine flush, check you can drain it out first. And if there's anything to look out for or expect then tips would be appreciated.
Thanks, guys.
Not new to PH but couldn't remember my login credentials from years back. Alas a new account was in order.
Hope everyone's keeping well in this fine weather.
I was until about an hour or so ago.
I purchased a Chevy Cruze recently for an absolute steal as a spare runaround for the summer. Had all the servicing items and tools ready, but tonight's DIY service ended up being left unfinished.
Two schools of thought i know in relation to engine flush. This being a budget runaround, I picked up the Silverhook stuff from Toolstation and put it in. Car came with no SH as it was taken in as a PX. It drives and runs spot on, but as I've said: a steal, so thought I'd go a bit further by using an engine flush.
Upon attempting to loosen the nut to drain the oil, I find the darn thing jammed, and I mean jammed.
So two issues, if anyone has found themselves in this situation:
1. I'm leaving the car with engine flush in it overnight. It's not been revved and I don't plan on driving it. Did this cause you any issues? Was thinking of idling the car subject to the below tomorrow to , but I fear the flush could have 'thinned' the oil out significantly by tomorrow assuming i get round to finishing off the job. Now thinking not to bother.
2. Obviously the old oil and engine flush will remain for as long as the nut remains jammed. Sprayed copper grease and left it. How did you approach the same?
Lastly, lesson learned: if you're going to use engine flush, check you can drain it out first. And if there's anything to look out for or expect then tips would be appreciated.
Thanks, guys.
Thanks All.
I hold my hands up. Put my phone on charge and jumped in the shower and remembered it's not a nut. I even took a photo of it as I wasn't using stands.
It's a torx sump plug requiring a T40 bit. Photo was taken before the event, so no idea what it looks like now!
Thanks again.
I hold my hands up. Put my phone on charge and jumped in the shower and remembered it's not a nut. I even took a photo of it as I wasn't using stands.
It's a torx sump plug requiring a T40 bit. Photo was taken before the event, so no idea what it looks like now!
Thanks again.
Edited by captain.scarlet on Wednesday 16th June 23:55
shtu said:
No problem there. Most flushing oil is stuff like kerosene and naptha, just thin solvent-y oil really.
Relief there. Cheers, shtu. I thought I'd ignore Scotty Kilmer on this occasion as much as I quite enjoy his videos. shtu said:
Take from selection of - Heat. Breaker bar. Ring spanner and hammer. Impact gun. If it's an ally sump I'd definitely be getting some blowtorch on it.
Also - plan ahead and think about what you'll do if the sump threads come out with the plug. Thread repairs, or oversized plugs are available.
Admittedly I did try with my impact driver using the T40 bit, but no joy. I think a hammer from underneath and a few taps may be worth a try. I thought that idling the car until the engine came up to operating temperature could have generated the heat to loosen it up.Also - plan ahead and think about what you'll do if the sump threads come out with the plug. Thread repairs, or oversized plugs are available.
Probably best to a new one ready from now.
Hi All,
Thanks a lot for the advice and feedback. Went back to work on it earlier today and nothing worked at all. Vise grips just couldn't sit on the plug head and the pan has raised text about correct tightening. So every millimetre counted and I just couldn't get the plug to turn.
One of my concerns with an oil pump is any deposits being left behind. Would this go in through the dipstick hole?
I inserted a flat bit and hammered it in tight today. Tried again with the impact driver and all it did was shave some bits of metal off and make the situation rounder!
Tried with the hammer to maybe give it a knock out of place.
Ideally I'd like to get a new screw put in there before putting in the new oil, so I think there are 4 options here to permanently fix it:
1. Bore a hole and put in a thread, and try and remove the two together;
2. Angle grinder on the screw head and slice a section to enable a flat head bit in, and try again that way.
3. Assuming the shaft of the screw is also soft aluminium, bore through it with a wide enough drill piece and try and weaken the screw structurally in order to be able to break it off in bits.
4. Replace the pan. May require additional work on other components, however.
Option 3 is my preferred route to go down. I needed an angle grinder anyway. It'd have to be a very delicate procedure.
Last thing I then need is after all of that, for the thread in the pan to turn out to be damaged. My concern about forcing the existing screw off is that I could do that. In the other hand, it may be why someone has overtightened it, to prevent leaks.
Thanks a lot for the advice and feedback. Went back to work on it earlier today and nothing worked at all. Vise grips just couldn't sit on the plug head and the pan has raised text about correct tightening. So every millimetre counted and I just couldn't get the plug to turn.
One of my concerns with an oil pump is any deposits being left behind. Would this go in through the dipstick hole?
I inserted a flat bit and hammered it in tight today. Tried again with the impact driver and all it did was shave some bits of metal off and make the situation rounder!
Tried with the hammer to maybe give it a knock out of place.
Ideally I'd like to get a new screw put in there before putting in the new oil, so I think there are 4 options here to permanently fix it:
1. Bore a hole and put in a thread, and try and remove the two together;
2. Angle grinder on the screw head and slice a section to enable a flat head bit in, and try again that way.
3. Assuming the shaft of the screw is also soft aluminium, bore through it with a wide enough drill piece and try and weaken the screw structurally in order to be able to break it off in bits.
4. Replace the pan. May require additional work on other components, however.
Option 3 is my preferred route to go down. I needed an angle grinder anyway. It'd have to be a very delicate procedure.
Last thing I then need is after all of that, for the thread in the pan to turn out to be damaged. My concern about forcing the existing screw off is that I could do that. In the other hand, it may be why someone has overtightened it, to prevent leaks.
Yep, that's the one I've been looking at buying. Some of the local shops have them in stock thankfully. Right now it's what's the best way to address this.
The pan seemed to be be coated in oil, so replacing the seal/gasket may be needed, but it's just another fiddly and time-consuming task. I can't think how else it became like that.
When you chisel around the rim, do you mean the head or between it and the actual pan, where the plug o-ring would squeeze against it? Is it then a matter of using the grips again?
The pan seemed to be be coated in oil, so replacing the seal/gasket may be needed, but it's just another fiddly and time-consuming task. I can't think how else it became like that.
When you chisel around the rim, do you mean the head or between it and the actual pan, where the plug o-ring would squeeze against it? Is it then a matter of using the grips again?
oakdale said:
God no don't chisel under it, just drive it anticlockwise by chiseling the outer rim, use a bluntish small chisel or even a small punch, make an indent in the rim with the tool first, then angle it to drive it round.
I'll give it a go, but I'm going to have to have an angle grinder on standby!The chance observation of oil on the pan hasn't helped either!!
finlo said:
Whoever designed that wants shagging with the ragged end of a rag man's trumpet!
When you get it off replace it with plug with a proper head.
Completely with you there. And if it is going to be that, at least make sure the material is strong enough so as not to get shredded to bits when the going gets tough. When you get it off replace it with plug with a proper head.
Evening All,
Picking back up on this.
Tried everything: grips, chisel, boring through the plug to weaken it and then the multitool to slice into it.
Nothing worked.
Wasn't filled with confidence when the jacking points began to bend and split as the trolley jack was raising it.
Phoned a mechanic mate and we agreed it'd be best to replace the oil sump, which was already leaking (and I understand a common issue with the mk1 Chevy Cruze). I was going to take it to him earlier and there was me thinking the likes of GSF and Eurocarparts had it, but it seems nowhere does it specifically identiable for Chevrolet (even with a VRN check).
It did get me wondering whether any similar era Vauxhalls or Chevys basically use the same part, particularly Astra. Does anyone know? It's a 1.6 petrol.
Picking back up on this.
Tried everything: grips, chisel, boring through the plug to weaken it and then the multitool to slice into it.
Nothing worked.
Wasn't filled with confidence when the jacking points began to bend and split as the trolley jack was raising it.
Phoned a mechanic mate and we agreed it'd be best to replace the oil sump, which was already leaking (and I understand a common issue with the mk1 Chevy Cruze). I was going to take it to him earlier and there was me thinking the likes of GSF and Eurocarparts had it, but it seems nowhere does it specifically identiable for Chevrolet (even with a VRN check).
It did get me wondering whether any similar era Vauxhalls or Chevys basically use the same part, particularly Astra. Does anyone know? It's a 1.6 petrol.
Thanks for the replies, guys.
In terms of the replacement pan itself now that the plug has become a dog's breakfast, I'm minded to take a gamble with a replacement Astra part, which seem to be in abundance and really available compared with a Chevrolet or VRN search.
I guess that a part of that is due to the fact that some parts genuinely can't be switched over, but also because some aftermarket parts may simply have been produced by other manufacturers who didn't think to include all GM marques in the compatibility list as they may have been interested in one.
That said, I'd be really surprised anyway if a Vauxhall/Opel engine part like a sump pan cannot be used on the equivalent engine on a Chevrolet, Buick, Holden or even Daewoo.
In terms of the replacement pan itself now that the plug has become a dog's breakfast, I'm minded to take a gamble with a replacement Astra part, which seem to be in abundance and really available compared with a Chevrolet or VRN search.
I guess that a part of that is due to the fact that some parts genuinely can't be switched over, but also because some aftermarket parts may simply have been produced by other manufacturers who didn't think to include all GM marques in the compatibility list as they may have been interested in one.
That said, I'd be really surprised anyway if a Vauxhall/Opel engine part like a sump pan cannot be used on the equivalent engine on a Chevrolet, Buick, Holden or even Daewoo.
oakdale said:
It wouldn't surprise me if a Vauxhall sump won't fit, although the cylinder block will be similar there could be any number of differences like oil pick up position or stud centres.
You seem to be making heavy weather of this and it may be best to get a local garage to do it for you on a lift.
As all has failed up to now, I would either grind a slot across the diameter of the plug and use a small blunt chisel on the outer edge of the slot, or drill a 10mm hole through the centre of the plug to drain the oil and then carefully mig weld a 10mm bolt (17mm head) into it to remove it.
eta, My memory of the sump plug thread diameter is a bit vague, so it may be safer if drilling to just drill a shallow hole to locate the bolt before welding.
I did have a mechanic to hand to take it to yesterday but the sump issue prevented it, plus nobody had them in stock anyway.You seem to be making heavy weather of this and it may be best to get a local garage to do it for you on a lift.
As all has failed up to now, I would either grind a slot across the diameter of the plug and use a small blunt chisel on the outer edge of the slot, or drill a 10mm hole through the centre of the plug to drain the oil and then carefully mig weld a 10mm bolt (17mm head) into it to remove it.
eta, My memory of the sump plug thread diameter is a bit vague, so it may be safer if drilling to just drill a shallow hole to locate the bolt before welding.
Edited by oakdale on Sunday 27th June 11:42
Edited by oakdale on Sunday 27th June 11:50
My original plan was to drill up through the plug with sufficient thickness to make the shaft weaker and thinner. Then slice into and across the head of the plug a few times in order to then be able to press and loosen it. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world.
I'll be checking with the last authorised Chevy garage in the UK (according to the Chevy UK website) tomorrow regarding the Astra sump. Otherwise it'll be Vauxhall themselves. I'm not going to risk keeping the same sump, not least where it appears to be leaking oil. May as well kill two birds with one stone.
Also noticed whilst I was underneath yesterday that the radiator hose has been recently leaking coolant judging by the colour, so at least some further good has come out of this whole saga, but that's bangernomics...
oakdale said:
What's wrong with the sump, It's an aluminium casting isn't it?
It won't leak unless it's cracked, the leak is more likely to be from the gasket or crank seal.
Just as an update, in the last week I did get it to my mechanic - he had enough clearance underneath to use a hammer and chisel he said, so that was sorted.It won't leak unless it's cracked, the leak is more likely to be from the gasket or crank seal.
As for the leak, we had the bonnet open on a bright sunny day. The amount of oil around the engine was even more visible. He said it would be best to change the rocker (valve cover) gasket.
Did that, but it meant taking out the swanky new Bosch spark plugs I'd put in and carefully torqued.
Since then, I've noticed the car juddering and jerking when put in gear and the accelerator is not depressed (e.g. using engine braking when approaching traffic lights), distinct from simply the engine needing more fuel and choking.
It happened particularly this morning when put into second gear.
Also, I know this is a shed with a 1.6 Ecotec engine, but it's pretty sluggish. Little torque and dropping gears seems to be the way to get power. The fuel filter is apparently guaranteed for life, so I don't know whether it's the fuel pump itself.
Anyway that's not the main concern as it's only being used for short trips - I am wondering whether the gasket change and the juddering are linked.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts so far.
oakdale said:
First thing I would suspect is that a spark plug may have been dropped causing the gap to close up.
Would be very annoyed if that had happened or if they'd been over-torqued cracking had occurred. They are the Bosch FR78X with the four electrodes which in a moment of desperation on a Saturday evening I got from Halfords for an elevated price.There was also oil three of the old plugs (some more than others). May be a good idea to give the plug wells a wipe. For what it's worth, a replacement set of plugs will probably be in order. The juddering didn't exist, even with the plugs replaced and the old rocker gasket in place. Engine was as slick as a whistle.
As for the sluggish acceleation, what would your thoughts be? It surely can't be that underpowered an engine for too big a car, given they were fitting them to Astras at the same time.
Thanks everyone.
Looks like if is the plugs then it'll be easier to just get all of them changed. Chances are there'll be plenty of oil in there from before needing to be wiped.
It's not a nice ride to have the juddering even if it's slightly faint at times.
Takes me on to another observation...a hissing sound on acceleration between certain speeds (20 to 30 mph) and/or revs. Not there at idle and it will go if I release the throttle or simply exceed a certain speed.
Possible air intake issue?
No coincidence this has come with the recent rocker gasket change! One thing cured, another broken.
Looks like if is the plugs then it'll be easier to just get all of them changed. Chances are there'll be plenty of oil in there from before needing to be wiped.
It's not a nice ride to have the juddering even if it's slightly faint at times.
Takes me on to another observation...a hissing sound on acceleration between certain speeds (20 to 30 mph) and/or revs. Not there at idle and it will go if I release the throttle or simply exceed a certain speed.
Possible air intake issue?
No coincidence this has come with the recent rocker gasket change! One thing cured, another broken.
liner33 said:
oakdale said:
Not sure what you mean but if one earth electrode is bent towards the centre electrode, only that one will spark (because electricity takes the path of least resistance) and it will be a poor spark.
yes and more likely to be misfiring under load rather than idleThe spark will ALWAYS take the path of least resistance and irrespective of the number of electrodes only one is ever used, its a misconception that four electrodes = four sparks
Thank you all for the suggestions.
Apologies I've not responded sooner. I only finally got round to taking some further action.
As far as taking it back to the mechanic who changed the rocker gasket is concerned, in typical fashion he couldn't find anything wrong with it, "your engine runs beautifully", another mechanic whom I know took it for a spin around the block and again it was a classic "didn't feel anything".
That said, we ran a diagnostics check despite there being no EML. Found a faulty AC pressure switch (changed and regassed yesterday but alas no AC on the hottest of days) and error code for the thermostat, which I'll replace once I get some new torx bits. Annoyed there's no AC and they insisted I keep the gas! The mechanic when taking the car into the bay did notice the misfire - especially worse at low speeds and slowing down.
I did check the spark plugs - they're only a month or so old and so hardly used (no more than 40 miles covered), but they had already accumulated what looks like soot.
Surely that indicates a bad air-fuel mix?
Little or no oil on them compared with when I first changed them, so the rocker gasket has sure cured that.
I do have replacement plugs in case these were dropped, but given there is no EML on and fuel economy has been exceptionally poor - just shy of a full tank on a 1.6 Ecotec petrol and the range is apparently 219 miles (!!!!) - I am toying with the idea of changing the camshaft sensor and possibly the lamda sensors.
That's before considering any PCV or EGR valve.
As for the rattle/hiss, it seems to occur when wanting to accelerate heavily, usually in 3rd gear, and only for a limited number of mph or revs. I'm starting to think it may be something loose underneath like a heat shield but the timing of the rocker gasket change is a bit coincidental.
Thanks again.
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