its all my fault

[chilistrucker]

was delivering to smithfield again last night.
don't know if any of you have been? but its pretty much bang smack in the centre of london, so not an ideal location at the best of times, and on a normal night its busy, and access in and out down the streets that surround the market is at best, tight. normally when i'm tipped, i have to follow the road around the market, (a big square) to go out of the road i came in on. this normally takes between 5-15 minutes depending on lorries trying to get on bays, vans, forklifts, and cars left in stupid places. normally on 1 of the 4 corners that i have to do a tight 90 degree turn on.
last night it took 2 hours
it was chaos, the whole square and every road in and out ended up gridlocked. it was manic, a combination of extra trucks for the christmas rush, extra vans, same reason, and jo bloggs turning up and dumping their cars wherever they saw fit, to go and buy a turkey

in the end, the police turned up, (1 on a pushbike with blues and twos) to try and sort it, but even they were getting stressed, and i didn't envy them dealing with a combination of stressed out market staff, delivery drivers, cabbies and an element of pissed up public, post xmas party. it was fun and games.
i didn't get stressed, no point, you could see it was 1 big clusterfk for a whole host of reasons, so i just sat it out.

when i finally got to the last road that gets me to freedom, it was chaos. pretty much a normal width road, parked cars the whole legth of it on both sides, with nose to tail traffic both ways trying to get in and out. the incompetence of certain car drivers was astounding.

but the highlight for me, was trying to squeeze past a van coming towards me. a silver transit minibus. it looked to be a private hire vehicle, ferrying people around, post xmas party. when we got side by side, the road was now 4 abreast, parked cars each side, plus me and the van, i'm not kidding, i had approx 1cm spare on each side, it was so tight. when i drew level with the van, the driver said this,
"are you some sort of fking , w.t.f do you think you are doing on this road in the fking great lorry, whats the point of you being here, can't you fking see your causing all this chaos, i should get out of this van and knock you out."
i kid you not, they were pretty much his exact words.
i did invite him to get out of his van at anytime he felt fit, and then informed him that when he sat down to his christmas dinner, it would have been made possible by the likes of all of you, and me, but you know when your just wasting your breath i also asked him, why he was on this stretch of road? and why when he could see from the main road, that this minor 1 was fked, did he continue to turn in, and add to the confusion? he didn't seem to want to comment.

so, its time to hang my keys up. the shame. i can't deal with it. its all my fault
i love my job, but its evident i'm such a failure

[chilistrucker]

It was manic cliff, after 10 mins, I could see it was going to be a mare, so just went with the flow.
Other than the minor irritation in the minibus, it was entertaining watching everyone else and how they dealt with it.
Some of the revellers were monumentally spangled, they were fun to watch.

[chilistrucker]

truck71 said:

The average driver has to deal wth life's lowest ste on a daily basis, it's sadly a fact of modern life. Chilli you clearly have significant experience euro wide of this. One day they won't get they're teddys for xmas and the world will come to an end. Keep on truckin fella, some of us know the score.

your right mate, they'd all be screaming if the stuff wasn't in the shops, perhaps they think santa really does deliver it all
i do find europe is alot better as a lorry driver. most places you go you get treated with more respect than we do in the uk. it seems more people over the water realise we are an essential, as opposed to over here, where we are considered a pain in the arse. truckstops and facilities are much better in europe aswell, better food, showers, hygiene, and you don't get charged 20+ euros to park for the night in most stops.


4key, caffs, i don't know what your talking about, hvn't seen any

[chilistrucker]

Crossflow Kid said:

truck71 said:

One day they won't get they're teddys for xmas and the world will come to an end.

It won't. Really, it won't. It's a myth perpetuated by the haulage industry, borne out by the fact it's only truckers who bang on about it.

Crossflow, you've been drinking your lorry hating beer again havn't you
even you know its not a myth.
lets say we took all the lorries off the road for december, how would, "you" get all the stuff from the suppliers, to the warehouses, and into the shops? just curious as to if there is a better way.

[chilistrucker]

Crossflow Kid said:

The better way is to wean people off the Argos catalogue and reduce the amount of "stuff" being needlessly hauled all over the place, and redefine the "essential" in essential deliveries. That way, the notion that thousands of HGVs elephant racing along the M3 is pivotal to the future of mankind would be null and void.

but that is just in your ideal world.
i think something has to change in the future as the uk roads are struggling to cope as it is, of a daytime.
the congestion, and "elephant racing" you talk of, is a pain in the arse, so much so, that i choose to do nights. much nicer.

[chilistrucker]

agent006 said:

Crossflow Kid said:

The better way is to wean people off the Argos catalogue and reduce the amount of "stuff" being needlessly hauled all over the place, and redefine the "essential" in essential deliveries. That way, the notion that thousands of HGVs elephant racing along the M3 is pivotal to the future of mankind would be null and void.

I think we were hoping for a more practical solution, rather than a wholesale shift to communism.

someone will be along soon, saying, "stick it all on the railways"

[chilistrucker]

thats what most forget, how it gets to and from the train
like you say, the same with air and seafreight, its going to likely end up on a truck still at each end.

[chilistrucker]

Crossflow Kid said:

chilistrucker said:

thats what most forget, how it gets to and from the train
like you say, the same with air and seafreight, its going to likely end up on a truck still at each end.

Yes, but using rail, air or sea for strategic resupply means only local low volume distribution would be done by road....in smaller vehicles.....on shorter runs.
The Argos scenario isn't communism, it's simply the views of someone who knows they won't die if there aren't croissants in the Co-op before 8am on Sundays. Consumerism has fed the logistics industry with a bottomless pit in to which next month's landfill is constantly poured, and the industry responds by feeding consumers with a never ending non-stop supply chain. The side effect is a motorway network reduced to one usable lane through elephant racing (but that's ok apparently).
As someone who can walk and chew gum at the same time, I recognise that I don't actually "need" a 24hr service in many aspects of my life and have lived in socieites where it doesn't happen to a greater or lesser extent and bugger me, I'm still here. Germany, for example, seems to be doing very well indeed despite having a blanket ban on HGVs over weekends.
So please don't expect a great deal more sympathy over any other road users.
Our roads are st. Deal with it. Everyone else has to, yet the haulage industry seems to project the idea that because it's "work", it's voice is louder and point of view more relevant. For the record, I have to endure ste roads before I even start work.
I do like the "Keep on truckin' brother. Only we know the score" comment though. D'you like Country and Western?

Edited by Crossflow Kid on Sunday 30th December 19:46

i like you CK, because often you come across, as being clueless, and full of st all at once.

so how do you see these shorter journeys, on smaller vehicles happening, in your ideal world?

if a large container ship comes into 1 of our bigger ports, the easiest, cheapest way for the goods to get to said warehouse, rdc, etc, is on the back of said big dirty lorry that is purpose built to carry said shipping container.
when i last looked, it took about 10-12 transit type vans to do the job of 1 artic.
it all boils down to cost, cheap gear made in china, cheapest way to ship it, is on a huge container ship, carrying 15000 containers at a time, and when it reaches its destination, the cheapest and easiest way to move it overland is on a wagon.
granted, a fair few of these containers, do get moved from ports, to inland depots by rail, but for now the majority is still done by truck.

sadly this idea you have of smaller vehicles and shorter journeys is not going to happen.
we don't have the rail network to deal with it, and these large ships are not likely to make it up the manchester ship canal anytime soon. we just don't have the waterways, or rail network to cope.

as for your favored elephant racing mention. sadly yes it happens, i don't like it, i don't agree with it, and i don't do it, those that do are fking stupid, but hey ho, thats life.
i don't like fog light wkers, mlm, people who use their mobile devices, etc, but its a crap world, and i have to put up with the idiots that do it. you know you exagerate the elephant racing. for all the idiot elephant racers that we sadly do have, and some of the poor driving i have seen by wagon drivers, for all accidents that involved lorries last year, 20% were the fault of the lorry driver.
elephant racing is a problem on 2 lane roads, but on a 3 or 4 lane motorway it shouldn't be an issue, as cars have 1 or 2 more extra lanes to overtake on.

i do agree with you on the 24 hour society point. i don't need it either, managed for years without it, i was never bothered when the pub shut on a sunday afternoon, and it didn't matter when toscos, marrisons and co never even opened on a sunday. but things have moved on, society has changed, and the majority seem to want it, and big business is never gonna look a gift horse in the mouth if it can turn a profit and keep the "shareholders" happy, then you know it will.

germany doesn't have a blanket ban all weekend. its a 24 hour ban, that runs from late saturday, to late sunday night, for trucks over 7 and a half tonnes. then considering that truck drivers can't do more than 6 consecutive shifts before having to have a 24 hour break, and that most truck drivers start on a monday, guess when they'd be off the road anyway
i like the german and french bans though, good idea.
doesn't matter to me though, as when in these countries if we need to run during the 24 hour ban we can do it on permits, that can be bought from the authorities for a small charge

if your a lorry hater thats fine, and i certainly don't want your sympathy. i've met plenty of miseducated lorry haters in my time.
but deep down, you know that the simple fact is, until several years down the line, when everything is automated, and you no longer need lorry drivers, and you no longer need cars for that matter as everything will be fully automated, for now the lorries are here to stay. you know full well if you took them all, and i mean "ALL" off the road, the country would collapse, that is just a simple fact, like it or not. it would probably only take a week before everything started to grind to a halt, and mass hysteria set in.

anyways, gotta shoot, just off to polish my cowboy boots, stick my check shirt on, jump in the transam and fk off down the line dancing club
yee, and indeed, haw!!!
10/4 good buddy

[chilistrucker]

Crossflow Kid said:

So you're saying because China wants to fill our shelves with cheap st sent in shipping containers, we HAVE to have it?
That's my whole point. We've got so far up the proverbial creek we appear to have lost sight of the need to even stop to think and relentlessly tell ourselves that loads of HGVs is somehow essential/vital/critical, and that there is absolutely no way to remove even 10% of them. And I'm afraid I just don't buy in to that. I never suggested all HGVs need taking off the road, I suggested a very long hard look is needed at what's being mov around by road and how much of it is genuinely critical.
If people weren't provided with ten varieties of apples in supermarkets, Olly Murs CDs in petrol stations and sofas delivered in under 24 hours they'd soon get used to it and realise the world hasn't ended.
How is that clueless and/or full of st?

And the elephant racing......the latest treat down in Hampshire was a seven player contest (all Brit registered) tussling along from J7 where I joined, and they were still at it, four in lane 1, three in lane 2, all the way to J3 where 1st and 2nd place were finally decided.. Only 24ish miles, but it doesn't matter, all the car drivers (out for nothing more than a jolly obviously) can use lane 3 right, along with all the light vans, coaches, bikes and anything else that isn't hauling st from China so doesn't deserve to be on a motorway in the first place.
But since I didn't have any custard on me I'm afraid I thought it a little pointless taking photos. So I guess it never happened eh?

Edited by Crossflow Kid on Sunday 30th December 22:44

so are you saying you'd like to control what the consumer has a right to buy? is that it?
am i right in saying, that anything non essential, in your eyes, need not be out there for the public to buy, or have the choice to buy? if it is then thats your ideal world, but its never going to happen.
if it is, then you would certainly take a huge ammount of lorries off the road. well done you.



no, that is not what i'm saying, that we have to have it.
i'd much prefer if all the stuff was produced right here in the uk, rather than in china.
but regardless of where its made, the stuff is still going to be distributed, and we are not just talking retail. and as of yet, as there is still know realworld viable alternative, much to your disapointment,its still going to travel on the back of a lorry.
the whole smaller van, shorter journeys, things is just not going to happen.
steps have been made by alot of the big players to cut lorry journeys, thats why you see double deck trailers. also, there is an ongoing trial at the mo, trialing longer trailers to see if they would be a viable option? i'm not so sure, would maybe work on trunking routes, but too big for urban work.

hmmm, 7 lorries, in lane 1 and 2, for 24 miles you say.
well, i wasn't there, so i'll take your word for it.
as i've clearly stated time and time again, i think elephant racing is a disgrace.
i've never said a lorry has any more right to be on the road, than any car, van, bike or coach. what i have said, and you know i'm right, is that without lorries, the country is screwed, its just a pure and simple fact.

out of interest, this j7-j3 scenario on the m3, what time of day?
also, what were you in, a car? and if lane 3 was running, all be it congested, due to the elephant racers, what sort of speed was lane 3 running at.
i'm just puzzled, that even if it were really busy, did it really take you 24 miles to get past the idiots in lane 1 and 2?

[chilistrucker]

Crossflow Kid said:

Look, it's not about controlling what people buy, it's about getting them to control it themselves, bit like recycling, greener energy and all the other revolutions that have taken place in the last twenty years.
Repeatedly saying "it'll never happen" and "you know I'm right" in response to the idea of using smaller scaler distribution isn't a valid argument is it? Or are you applying the trucker's maxim of Might is Right?
What you really mean is much of the haulage industry don't want it to happen. As you say, steps would be needed by big players.

And the elephant racing world championships relied on the "everyone else can use lane 3" principle, completely failing to take in to account the old biddy in her Micra who moved in to Lane 3 and then wandered around between 50 and 60mph.
But not to worry. M&S got their cream cakes on time and that's what matters.

Edited by Crossflow Kid on Monday 31st December 00:26

but in this country, in todays modern world, people do want the choice. you can't control people into what they can and can't have, regardless of whether they need it.
doesn't help that we live on a fairly small island, with a fairly large population.
its why i prefer the euro work, on the whole easier to get around.

i'm afraid that yes it is a valid arguement. whether you like it or not, currently all these freight journeys are being made, and mainly by the bigger end of the scale, comercial vehicles.
if you showed me, a genuine, viable alternative to moving lots of freight, then i might agree with you, but as of yet, there is nothing out there as i pointed out earlier. rail and waterways are not an alternative, if they were, trust me, you'd see alot more stobart trains, and even maybe stobart canal barges, but as it stands right now, there just isn't an alternative.
if you want something thats going to give you the most versatility, of moving goods around, in the most cost effective manor, then its still trucks that are your best option.
you havn't got to like it, its just how it is right now.

the big players, do like to be seen, "to do their bit" but again its all down too cost.
think of the money they save, for every double deck trailer they put on uk roads.


well, nothing i can do about some old granny in a micra, and a couple of lorry drivers, who were ignorant to the rest of the world. she did well then the old girl, managing 24 miles in the outside lane.

i would assume, that most of the vehicles that were trying to use lane 3, were the more essential journeys that needed to be made
you see where i'm going don't you.....

if you want to get rid of non essential lorry journeys, well you know
blimey, at this rate, the roads are going to be desserted, we'll just be left with old grannies in micras, and the odd english registered, elephant raced lorry, piloted by someone whos name ends in "ski" who got there licence somewhere in the european union, for the price of a packet of fags.