Citroen Relay - The Enterprise! Camper Build

[geeks]

So, we have been toying with the idea of a new van but nothing we could find in our budget fitted the bill.

Needed to be smart enough to tour with and not draw sneers from sites.
Needed to be able to tow my race car without the continual worry of even the slightest of gradients.
Needed to be able to stash tools, wheels, spares etc for said race car in the back without impeding to the cabin space.
Needs to be able to keep the wife in comfort when I am running around organising the Compact Cup weekends in the paddock.
Needed a permanent bed we don't have to take down and put up continuously.
Needed other things that I can't be bothered to type out

So off we went budget in hand and sought out a van. Enter the mighty Relay. High mileage but with a bucket load of history on a van that had spent a significant amount of time on the motorway transporting motorbikes about. It's the Enterprise edition (hence the name) so has aircon, bluetooth and electric things

Pics









We are aiming for something like this


Rough draft in paint


First up get the bulkhead removed, took 10 minutes on my lunch break (working from home for a few days, rather handy)



Removed the ply lining from the sides as well for templates and stuff, no pics of that yet. Next up is floor removal.

Ordered so far (today has been busy for deliveries)

Insulation both foil wrap and polyester stuff used in the VW stuff.
Waeco CRX50 Fridge Freezer
Smev 8322 hob and sink
Carpet lining
Side window kit (passenger side on the sliding door will slide open, drivers one will be fixed.
Other bits and bobs.

I am keeping a spreadsheet of costs although by the end I suspect by the end of it I will wish I hadn't

Design is with these guys (http://www.convertyourvan.co.uk/), just waiting on specs and a cost to produce the interior kit but I have plenty to be getting on with for now!

So thats where I am, having only picked the van up Sunday I can't complain so far. Have a small wager with my mum as to if it will be ready in time for the round of the season in April. Theoretically possible but I am away a lot with work these days..

[geeks]

Rosscow said:

Hmmmm..... sounds like a great project and good luck with it!

However, having had 3 Citreon Relays at work from a 57 reg up to a 64 reg, all I can say is I hope you have more luck with them than we have. Reliability not a strong point!

Cheers, feeling a bit terrified right now

Interesting have a mate who swears by Relays and Ducatos. We had a budget and a reasonable choice and this was the best in budget fingers crossed its as reliable as he says, or I shall have his testicles in a vice

[geeks]

Did consider that but at 6'1 I don't fit width ways unfortunately. Well I won't once the lining is in we did consider that but ultimately it didn't seem to save much space. We will see, still very open right now it could potentially change but we are pretty sold on this so far. Next plan it to put some masking tape down on the floor marking everything out and see how we do!

Edited by geeks on Wednesday 1st February 08:57

[geeks]

Cheers, everything ordered has arrived, plenty of head scratching ahead of us I am sure lol! The next job is getting the floor up then it will be a good cleaning of the rear load area then the windows, which will involve cutting two large holes in the side

[geeks]

Rosscow said:

geeks said:

Rosscow said:

Hmmmm..... sounds like a great project and good luck with it!

However, having had 3 Citreon Relays at work from a 57 reg up to a 64 reg, all I can say is I hope you have more luck with them than we have. Reliability not a strong point!

Cheers, feeling a bit terrified right now

Interesting have a mate who swears by Relays and Ducatos. We had a budget and a reasonable choice and this was the best in budget fingers crossed its as reliable as he says, or I shall have his testicles in a vice

Sorry, didn't want to terrify you! I'm sure you'll be fine, we have a tendency to be unlucky with vehicles

Terror was more related to the mountain of work we have ahead hahah, don't worry what will be will be with the van, I am relaxed about.

Skyedriver said:

Called ito the local village garage for advice on vans a couple of days ago, his thought was "they are all ste too!
Modern diesels, all the paraphenalia that goes with them plus big bills for silly parts that fail.

Yeah seems to be a theme, Sprinters are known for injector issues, transits leak rust and the fuel pumps aren't known for longevity, VW LT's are known for blowing heads and cooling issues, the relay/ducato/boxer is known for electrical bits and clutches.

Seems no matter the van there is a known issue for it. We selected one we liked the look of and the drive of and then bought it. We will have to see i guess, as with any used vehicle you just hope for the best and fix it when it breaks!

Spuffington said:

Good luck with this - will be keeping a close eye on the thread. Would love to do something like this but have neither the time nor the patience.

Thanks, no time like the present, or the winter in the rain and wind

DuraAce said:

Looks good so far, interested to see how this turns out.

Cheers

[geeks]

Darryl247W said:

Best of luck with it. It's hard to beat the satisfaction of heading off in your own handiwork.
I've done 2 home-conversions. First one on a Citroen Relay that took us to all 4 cardinal points of the UK mainland, and lasted us 8 seasons with very little effort until we decided to move up the years with a fresher van. The Relay had been so good to us, I wanted another, but found a good Renault Master for the 2nd conversion.

I'm tall too, so went with the lengthways bed. I'd go wider on the bed if you can, other fitments permitting.

If it helps your build process, here's mine :

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/168690/rena...

Edited by Darryl247W on Friday 3rd February 18:40

Loving your work! I have pinched a couple of your ideas and incorporated them into my design, along with LeighW and Tampon

[geeks]

So an update. Not much progress. Work, weather etc the usual excuses. However today I did go and mock up the interior on the floor from the drawings from the conversion kit guys. It's come out a bit more cramped than anticipated and we have decided to head on with a more traditional layout. Bed across the back etc. Am mocking some new paint images up for the van guys to cad up for me will post a pic later on. Have also ordered some sikaflex and bits and bobs. Floor will be coming up tomorrow and the inside will get a good clean before we start insulating however am driving some 150 miles south tomorrow evening to start work with a client on Monday and will be away until next weekend... DOH!

[geeks]

So update...

First up the layout. Having mentioned that the original planned layout was a bit cramped we went back to the drawing board and came up with something a little more conventional. New layout is below. Has a couple of advantages, gives us the option of pulling out the sofa to a bed so in theory makes the van a 4 berth and the kitchen no longer extends past the door as much..



So having had the mock up done by the interior company we are happy and they are cracking on with the cutting etc should be ready in a couple of weeks.

So cracking on with the van itself, just general bits and pieces really. All the lining is out now, the holes in the floor cleaned up and painted and filled (sikaflex is awesome stuff) started filling the struts and the beams in the roof! (apologies for the lack of pics, note: dog is useless )




Oh and then this happened cutting big fk off holes in the side of a van is more nerve wracking than I had realised top tip, I used a nibbler I bought from ebay, its the type that attaches to a drill and by christ it does a fking excellent job. Probably the best £20 I have spent in a while!











Really pleased with how they turned out

Not really much done unfortunately, working away still (typing this out from the hotel!)

However the pile of bits is stacking up, the underslung fresh and waste water tanks have arrived along with: the side step, the sterling battery to battery charger, a st ton of wiring, 240v distribution stuff, 12v distribution stuff and other things.

So there we are! Home this Friday and a big weekend is planned of wiring, insulation and with any luck fresh ply lining!

[geeks]

Nice, basically the same van then (ours is an L3H2 as well). I couldn't stretch to a 3 litre though apparently they go like stink I do get all the other bells and whistles though so musn't grumble!

Rear bed on ours will be fixed above a garage space as well (about 4' high but i may raise this a little to 4'6 to allow room for the Halfords stack-able toolbox). It is actually a double at the back, but a small double (small double is 4', standard is 4'6) not a standard but that's not really a problem for us as we tend to only do 2-4 nights at a time.

We have been through several iterations of layout and this one we are happy with, to be honest it is essentially the same layout as our beloved van but bigger and we always liked the layout of that one so fingers crossed. The great thing about a self build of course is if after a season or twos racing and touring we decide it isn't how we want it, we can change it "reasonable ease"

P.S Sorry to hear about the house

P.P.S where is your build thread?

P.P.P.S I have registered on the SBMCC site but feel a little aggrieved to pay for the membership. Is it worth it?

[geeks]

Sorry for the lack of updates was busy with work and working flat out to get as much done as i could before the weekend just gone! Suffice to say things and stuff happened prepare for lots of pics





















Shortly after all of that (as in only a matter of hours) we were parked up at Oulton Park for R3 and 4 of the Compact Cup for our firs night in the van!






No running water or gas yet but not much to do to get it there. Electrics mostly done just need to get the 240v earthed to the van and inspected and the 12v just needs an earth as well. We spent the first night with only the fridge and the lights connected and they functioned as you would expect them to

Will get some better pics as and when I go out there to tinker and finish things off, feel free to ask questions!

Edited by geeks on Monday 8th May 13:05

Edited by geeks on Monday 8th May 13:07

[geeks]

Spuffington said:

Looking good!

Presume that's a toilet/wetroom in front of the bed? Is it plumbed in yet or just an empty cupboard at the moment?

Toilet yes, no wet room for us, wherever we stay will on the whole have showers so it seemed an unrequired expense (esp when you factor in the price of a water heater)

V8mate said:

General question for DIY campervan builders:

I'd be happy with a little camper (T25 etc) but just can't accept the narrowness of a rock'n'roll bed. Using the width of the van (as the OP has here^) obviously appeals, but when I looked at the DVLA website about getting the vehicle officially registered as a campervan, the regs state that the bed must be at least 6' long. And not even the biggest Sprinter has that width at its widest part (about 5'6", IIRC)

So what's in the self-builder's mindset? Just not going to bother re-registering the vehicle? Hope the DVLA has never bothered to check the internal width?

(Not sure what benefits you gain from being a campervan rather than a commercial vehicle?)

My bed is bang on 6ft long. I could have made it 6'3 i reckon just by recessing the ply lining in the bed area. I will be re-registering it with the DVLA as a Motorhome as the insurance is WAAAAAY cheaper!

[geeks]

Tampon said:

Well we sold our previous bus to fund a house move to the coast and ae now on the look out for a bigger van to convert.

Search google, pistonheads comes up, look on here and see me mentioned! Small internet world.

Any way please keep this updated, I will certainly be looking on for tips and trick bud.

Good luck and it is looking good.

Could I ask how much the cabinets and furniture was? I made my own last time out of high gloss cupboards and oak work surfaces but interested in the costs of this stuff if possible

Thanks mate, I used yours and a few on here to give me the nudge to get stuck in

I picked up some "pre cut" (i use the term loosely, you have to fit, scribe and cut down etc) from convert your van. It was around 2k including the cushions and mattress and all the fittings etc.

Feel free to pick my brains, lots stashed in there that isn't on here

[geeks]

Tampon said:

Any updates?

I bought a black 2013 Relay and have started converting it. Have leather Galaxy swivel seats in, reverse camera, windows cut in, Transit people carrier removalable seats in as a second row, floor down and started insulating the walls.

One question I can't quite get my head around is the boxing in of the windows? On my last one I just carpeted up to them but these ones I want to box in like yours. What is the section between the ply wall and the van window attached to?

Hmmm updates, well the van was pressed into service a little before being finished last year so spent the season (motorsport, natch!) not quite done but more than functional. I installed the gas but never got the running water working properly so shelved it last year and carried bottled water when required. Its covered many trips and miles, we did the rest of the Compact Cup season, a couple of weekends away and then Race of Remembrance where it dragged my race car on the trailer plus tools, provisions, spare wheels etc from Milton Keynes to the edge of Wales and back without breaking a sweat an averaging 28mpg which I will be honest I was very impressed with!

In terms of inside over the winter I parked the van up, removed all the cushions etc to keep from any damp that might set in and we aired it and heated it as required. I lowered the bed this year by 6" and added a new mattress, this has made a big difference in sleep in the van, one night was always fine, 2 was a little tough but a first world problem but by night 3 both of us would suffer, so a change was needed. Other than that just some minor tweeks here and there I am still really pleased with it, I will try and get some updated pics this weekend when we are at Snetterton.

Nice work on your seats, I still need to get around to ordering the swivel plate for the front passenger on ours as it would add some seating and make it feel more spacious. I also have a 5kw Diesel heater that I need to fit at some point but the van is so well insulated that actually we are rarely cold once its warmed up.

I boxed off the window section with some standard timber (60x40) and then trimmed it out where it needed, kinda hard to explain I will dig around and see if i can find a better picture of that bit for you.

[geeks]

Tampon you have PM!

[geeks]

To bring some updates to the thread.

Last year our house flooded owing to an epic storm in Milton Keynes, while we waited for our insurance company to get their st together we ended up living in the van in the garden for a month. During that time you find out exactly how strong your marriage is, two people in close quarters with two dogs is a challenge.

Off the back of that we sat down not so long ago working out plans for the coming months and on those plans are redoing some bits inside the van.

Water - I never did manage to get the water running properly, it still sounds like the pump is pulling air from somewhere and I can't seem to work out where, no leaks and whenever I tried to find where it was pulling air, I came up short. This could become a moot point as we have decided that although not having a shower made things simpler install wise if we are to do any proper time in there on holidays and stuff then a shower is probably a decent idea. This will mean I have to redesign the water system and thus probably resolve the running water issue.

Shower - Don't have one, adding one looks straightforward enough, just need to work out the water heater requirements. This may still get shelved.

Heating - It needs fitting, we were rarely cold and when in EHU plugging in a small heater was fine, there are times when this simply isn't practical. So a the Planar heater needs fitting and pressing into service.

Batteries - Although we have one battery actually for the most part this has been plenty. We get a full weekend on battery power alone running the fridge, lights and the inverter, however if we add a heater into that we wont last as long. Plan is to double our bank and have two batteries, I might still upgrade this to three.

Inverter - Power is rarely an issue until again we aren't on EHU then having to connect a small inverter to power the TV and a laptop is a pain, I am looking into a more integrated setup. Also being able to run a coffee machine of some description and Mrs geeks straighteners would be nice, along with maybe a small microwave.

Bed - This is a more complicated one. I am 6'1, the wife is 4'11, guess which one of us wishes the bed was longer? It is bang on 6ft. Physics tells us I cannot lay out straight in the bed, two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time. Not really sure what to do here. To extend the bed I could cut some inserts out of the lining at top and tail and this would give me a bed of about 6'3, great, loads of room. This would however require cutting into the lining and refinishing that area, not impossible but not really very palatable. The alternative is a full redesign of the interior and refit, which provides the same headaches and also I would need to be mind full of the fact that my power is in a fixed position unless I want to strip it right out and remove all the lining, it's a conundrum, one I will work on and report back on at a later date.

Front Cabin - a new headunit is required, the bluetooth on the van is faulty, device connects, make a call and it crashes, I cant hear them, the cant hear me and I have to completely reboot the headunit to even get the radio back when this happens, not idea. A doubledine android based unit will be sourced or one compatible with CarPlay. Passenger bench seat needs replacing, it's not particularly comfortable or practical, being able to access the living area without leaving the van would be nice. To that end I am working on a seat solution for the cabin, I may well go the Ford Galaxy pair of captains seats or another relay single front seat with a swivel base. Again TBC and low on the priority list.

Watch this space, change is a coming

[geeks]

Slight update, we went away for the weekend! Just us and the dogs to a touring site The Secret Garden in Wisbech St Mary, excellent site I can really recomend (sausage and beer tasting is a nice touch!) This is only the second time in over two years we have used it for something other than racing (and living in for a month but that is a different story!) Got a few pics but the only one of the van was just before we set off on Sunday!

[geeks]

Nice work Thurbs! I don't have the room to store one that big (that's what she said!) have you got a build thread yet? Also did you see the pics I posted of you at Brands?

[geeks]

A update of sorts:

Gearbox developed a bad bearing type noise not long after purchase, kept an ear on it and it seemed not to get any worse, ran it like this for a few years but the clutch started to slip last year so we took it down to a local gearbox specialist and a duff input (or possibly output) shaft bearing was diagnosed as the issue, a full bearing set and service was done on it and a new clutch thrown in with a flywheel for around £1k.

Last weekend took the van over to a friends garage, there was a tiny oil leak that had been around from when we bought it, but it was very minor so it got put the the bottom of the to do pile but as with all these things it eventually started leaking more so was tackled, turns out there was the tiniest of teeny tiny holes in the sump causing the leak, a new one was sourced and fitted (as surprisingly simple and cheap job). Full service was done while we were there too, all new filters, fluids, belts and pulleys. The drive home was like having a different van surprising how these jobs make such a difference. (anyone who needs a proper mechanic in the Braintree/Colchester/Essex area I can thoroughly recommend Clive at CB AutoServices https://www.cbautoservices.co.uk/)

New pair of headlamps stuck in along with some Halford finest "50% brighter" bulbs and I can now see when driving in the dark so thats a definite bonus. Mrs geeks has requested that I being work on the outside now as it is looking a little tired being 10years old and it has received zero care in that time. Need to sort this stuff out and then a few scuffs, going to whip the wheels off too and paint them, probably gun metal grey or something similar, get all the trim panels cleaned and then heat gunned.

[geeks]

9xxNick said:

Appreciate the recommendation for a garage that's quite local to me.

No problem, can't recommend Clive enough has looked after everything mechanical for me for years everything from servicing to building my race engines!

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Did solve it a little by lowering it a bit, bed is now 6'1 (just) so a little better for me, I dont mind too much its only a few nights at a time and once I am asleep it doesnt bother me