Idle Speculation Question

[Doofus]

Once we've all climbed back through the wardrobe into the real world, if Mrs Doofus and I were to buy a motorhome to schlep around Europe in, would we be restricted to campsites for overnight stops?

Basically with a Class A of 8m or so, would we find our ability to 'schlep around' restricted by vehicle size and/or rules & regulations?

[Doofus]

oblio said:

Different countries have different rules on wild camping so you would be advised to research that. Mind you whether they have rules or not ther is a lot of evidence to suggest that the rules may not be rigidly enforced...so best to research that too. There are loads of forums for MHing which you could join: many are free and others are relatively cheap to join.

Alternatively there is a very wide network of free/cheap overnight stopping areas throughout Europe. Known as Aires in France (NOT to be confused with motorway aires) and Stelplatz in Germany (Sostas in Spain I think), these are usually community provided facilities in/near small towns/villages where the idea is that you stay for the night (cost: nil - 10€ typically) and then maybe you will spend a few € in the local shops, bars restaurants etc. There is a book 'All the aires' and no doubt an App too so you can research these. the website Campercontact is useful (and free) too. Facilities at the aires range from nothing right up to toilets and showers.

Aside from that there are other schemes like France Passion and Britstops where you pay to join a club and it offers overnight stops for free with the proviso that you are encouraged to buy some produce (France Passion sites are typically on vineyards, farms etc) or eat/drink in the pub (Britstops).

If you do want to visit campsites and can do it outside of the peak season you would be well advised to get an ACSI card and books and App (around 15€ per year) which offers '000's of sites across Europe at really low prices. Useful if you are wilding as you can top up with water; empty tanks; shower at leisure etc etc

Anyway there's a start for you

Thank you

I should have said, I know about aires in France (we live in France for four or five months a year. Well, we did until this year.), and I wouldn't use the motorway ones for a piss, let alone an overnight.

I know more research will be needed, and we have plenty of time; but PH is often the place to go to to get lots of information fairly quikly, so your detailed reply is much appreciated.

[Doofus]

GSalt said:

No, well that's the short answer.

The long answer depends on a couple of things - where in Europe you planned on going, and your definition of "campsite".

Where is Europe is anywhere and everywhere. I say say "schlep about"

My definition of campsite is somewhere with a crappy pizzeria, an expensove mini-mart and a bar next to a crowded swimming pool.

[Doofus]

oblio said:

That's right but depending on the length of the unit, it is worth checking if you are planning a particular site certainly in Spain and Italy, as some can be tight.

Our MH is 8.7m long and I always check. 99/100 its not a problem but just in case...

We dont tend to use the swimming pools; the bars occasionally; but do like a site with a food service as it gives an option especially if you've had a long drive or really can't be arsed to cook (well, you are on holiday after all )

Thank you. We camped in a few places in Europe over 20 years ago, and most of the on-site food was crap. At the moment, I'm struggling with the idea of spending £150k on a MH and then eating burgers or pizzas in a field...

[Doofus]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I didn't know we had to be discrete.

Basically, we've decided that we're going to seriously reduce our flying in the future. So this is an idea for a way to get around to different places without having to use hotels all the time (not always straightforward with a dog). We're not keen on using a 'camper', as we'd essentially live aboard for weeks at a time. Initial musings tell me that an integrated jobbie would fit our needs. But if it's going to restrict us to using municipal sites or the like then we'll think again.

I suppose 'wilding' is what I'm thinking of, but have no real idea of whether that's possible at all, let alone in a 6 ton truck.

[Doofus]

[Doofus]

GSalt said:

In Germany you certainly won't have any problems. You'll find a lot of larger motorhomes that people have moved into for retirement. Not sure if this will help or not, but it's the sort of site we stayed on that we didn't regard as a campsite in the Carry On Camping sense. And one where there were three Concorde-sized motorhomes the night we were there:
https://www.camping-westerstede.de/Willkommen/
12 Euro per night, including electric (for the stellplatz at the front, they charge more for the camping area around the back).

Because the larger motorhomes are popular with German retirees you'll find sites to stop anywhere they like to go.

If you get something like the Bord Atlas guides you can have a flick through and gauge the availability of similar stops, their prices and any size limits. The German speaking countries are extensively covered, and the rest of Europe gets a good shout too. Except the UK, because we don't have many of this type of site.

Good to know, thank you.

[Doofus]

Ok chaps, I'm after your wosdom again, before I sign up to any MH forums:

I've read a few things, in broad brush, and they seem to suggest that length can be an issue. Snarf.

If we're 8-8.5m and towing a car on a trailer, is that going to restrict our access to decent sites? I suppose we're mainly talking about southern Europe (France, Italy, Spain, Portugal). You see a fair few of this type of rig trundling along in France, but I don't know if they're sleeping in shifts and driving 24 hours per day because nobody will let them stop anywhere.

[Doofus]

oblio said:

We are 8.7m and I always check every site that we stay at. I would definitely check if I was towing a trailer. We have found sites in Spain and Italy that cannot take longer MH's...more so than any other country.

Some sites will charge you more as well if you cannot get everything on to your pitch. Having a trailer on there will inhibit your use of a pitch.

Serious question: Have you considered a scooter? or bicycles? Or both?

We have neither but get around using public transport...again done through researching the places we stay.

We'd carry bicycles, but given the size of the MH's we're looking at, which would give a degree of self-sufficiency, and the plan to travel for maybe a couple of months at a time, a small car seems kind of necessary.

And I couldn't get me, my wife and the dog on a scooter.

[Doofus]

chasingracecars said:

If you really need a car but aim to spend a while in the same area consider hiring a car.

It's an option, but we wouldn't necessarily spend very long in a single place. If we did, we'd use hotels.

[Doofus]

oblio said:

That's what we do.

We pick sites with local public transport and then top this up with a couple/few days car hire.

Out of season prices can be ridiculously cheap. We hired from sites in Spain and can pay 30€ a day or so for 2-3 days but I know that if you can pick up from an airport and want it for a week/fortnight, prices can go as low as 10-12€ per day. Buying a year long insurance policy at home to cover the Excess keeps the prices down too.

I did the maths on whether to buy a car and transport it together with the hassle it causes and worked out that it was better for us to hire as and when. We figured that we wouldn't be using it every day so why have it sitting there. I have seen folks who have them abroad and their pitch is wrecked by having to put their MH, car and trailer on it...no/little room for relaxing.

Plus now when we stop somewhere overnight we just hook up and get the kettle on. The thought of having to sort a trailer out seems like too much hard work to me.

It would be worth checking the impact on ferry costs as well.

Don't get me wrong if its the right thing for your touring plans then go for it . Many folks do and they can't all be wrong. It would be worth joining some other forums aside from wild camping ones, to get some insights from folks who do. MotorhomeFacts, Motorhomer, Motorhomeowners; motorhomefun are just a few where you will get a good cross section of experience and insight.

Thank you once again. Lot's of interesting stuff.

We're at idle speculation stage. The plan we had to buy a new house in UK has gone by the way due to having a st year last year, and losing a shedload of money. So the thought now is to relocate permanently to a new place in France, sell the house we already have there, and buy a MH to act as the 'second home'. So it'll be kept on the continent. My wife's found some very nice (aka 'expensive') A-classes - we only need 2 berths - but we're both struggling a bit with the secondary transport, given we have a dog. I probably can't afford/don't want/can't drive something big enough to have a car garage, so towing seems like the only option. Of course, rental makes sense for stays of a week or more.

What I don't know is where we'd go, for how long and how many days we'd stay in one place. My wife likes the idea of a degree of self-sufficiency, but I'm hung up on stuff like getting to the supermarket, and into towns and villages in a 7 ton truck.

And, BTW, a caravan is not the answer.

[Doofus]

wilksy61 said:

I'm also looking at the larger 2 berth MH in the near future and the possibility of towing, my budget is quite going to be £150K but for that is there not the type that can actually accommodate a Smart car sized vehicle within itself.

I think Concorde and Arto do one.

They do, but I don't have an HGV license.

ETA Plus, I suspect getting onto sites would be even harder in a 12+ tonner.

[Doofus]

wilksy61 said:

This one has a maximum weight of just under 7500kg so can you not drive that on a C1 normal car licence.

https://www.caravansforsale.co.uk/motorhome/rhd-co...

Its quite expensive though

Yes, that would be ok on a C1.

And yes, it's expensive. We've never MHed before (but came close to buying a boat a couple of years back, so we are happy with 'compromised' living space ), but I've kind of set a limit of 150k, knowing that will inevitably creep.

[Doofus]

oblio said:

Yes more stuff

I think most Integrateds are European-built, so we'd buy in Europe anyway. I'm pretty sure I could still fet some UK-specific features if we wanted.

I see that the rear lounge setup is considered a 'British' thing, and presumably that's because of the weather, and MHers in the UK spending more time inside? The idea of a fixed bed seems like a waste of space somehow.

I know what I can do with my C1 (I passed my test just over 30 years ago), but initial investigations suggested trucks with car garages were over 7.5t. Mind you, we started off looking at low profiles, for aesthetic reasons mainly. Which is a bit silly...

So if we accept we'll be driving a fridge rather than a SportsVan. that does offer options for car garages, I suppose. But then, I've also been told that much over 3m in height will restrict your options too. It's a bloofy minefield!

Thank you for the offer of a PM conversation, and thank you for your time on here. At the moment, it's general questions and opinions we're after, really, because we've no experience, and no real prospect of getting to a show anytime soon to go and sit on some...

[Doofus]

OK, so ignoring cars and trailers for the moment, what sort of payload do I need? 2 people and a dog, plus the wherewithall for, say a month on the road (let's include a couple of e-bikes at, say, 15kg each).

I've never weighed my underpants before (wet or dry), so don't have much idea what I'm looking at.

[Doofus]

oblio said:

I cant truthfully answer that for you.

The MIRO - Mass in Running Order of any MH - usually equates to a person weighing 75kg and a full tank of fuel. After this the payload is calculated HOWEVER the payload will include gas bottles, wind out canopy or awning, solar panels, bike rack, leisure batteries etc etc...these come out of your payload allowance. They add up in terms of weight.

Then add in stuff that you want to take: beer, wife's shoe collection, beer. BBQ, beer, at least 1 spare pair of underpants, beer, food, beer, dog food, beer, tool kit etc etc...in fact everything and anything that you want to take with you...this forms your payload.

Then add in fresh water - especially if you are going off grid (1 litre = 1kg) - and grey water if you cannot safely dump it. You might also want to carry a spare cassette for your toilet if going off grid. This also forms your payload.

Our Bessacarr (our first MH) had a payload of 580kg which I was never comfortable with. Our current MH is 850kg which I don't even think about now as its ample. For me, I would be looking at figures north of 700kg to be personally comfortable and then have no worries (apart from making sure that it you have it evenly spread so not too much on any axle).

All you can do is make sure that you check the payload allowance BEFORE committing to a certain MH.

I have a twin axle with a huge payload so I really don't think about it too much tbh.

Worth reading up on though. Here is as good a start as any...

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/artic...

Please don't let any of this faze you. I reckon loads of MH'ers don't give a toss about this stuff but I think it's worth knowing a bit and being aware of the issues before you buy. There are oodles of MH's out there that will suit you in terms of layout and payload so don't worry.

Thank you again I was talking about clothes, barbecue, beer etc. I'm adding awnings, water and so on into the MIRO, so it was just about how much luggage weighs, I guess.

Take, for example, something we've seen (not physically) with a GVW of 5,500, and it's specced up to 4,807 MIRO. 8.8ish long, with a tag axle.

[Doofus]

oblio said:

If you can get a list of what the extras are ABOVE the MIRO then some man maths will give you an approx figure of the extra weight added. Most items weight can be found on line.

That's what we're doing, using the manufacturer's pricelists, and I'm adding those extras to the MIRO so I can compare apples with apples across different vehicles. Some have an awning as standard, for instance, and others don't, but one can be optioned.

[Doofus]

Looks like the budget has begun to creep already, and I need to be looking at 7t chassis...

[Doofus]

VEX said:

We used them and will them again as a great way to see real French life and meet some great friend people.

The France Passon advice is useful, thanks. We've had a place in France for getting on for 20 years, and spend several months there each year. Plus I've worked in Paris, Lyon and Angouleme, and one concern I have over staying on campsites is that we wouldn't be enjoying 'real French life'.

[Doofus]

Me again

Some manufacturers (Autotrail, Swift) do coachbuilt MHs of a similar size to A-classes from the European builders.

Is there any reason to go for one over the other?