Still more replies to McLaren F1 questions and com

Still more replies to McLaren F1 questions and com

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flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Thursday 5th August 2004
quotequote all

Thanks again to you who have replied to these postings. This will be my last for a while because there are a number of other things that I need to be doing in the next few days.
For those patient souls who may still have flickering interest in the subject, here goes:

chaparral (is paint flat or gloss?) -
A solid colour with top coats of clear, then polished.

maranellouk (250GTO/what looking for when buying?) -
The market price for a 250GTO these days is at least £3M. You could get a few F1s for that money.
I was mainly looking at a car's mechanical condition. Because most all the servicing is done by the factory, they can give you a good idea of how a car has been driven and cared for. Best to avoid cars with no mileage - that may be even worse than one that's been neglected, depending.
The silver car that overtook you in Germany could have been mine, although there are several cars in Germany.

Raify (do they depreciate?) -
They certainly could. McLaren originally aimed to sell 300 cars, and barely managed to get to 100 even after adding in the racers. The official line is that after its alliance with Mercedes, McLaren thought it inappropriate to continue the F1 project with a BMW motor. My hunch is that they couldn't sell many more than they did.
Not long after production ceased in '98, there were a couple cars offered for sale in public media for 10-15% below the final list price of a few months before. That's hardly a sign of strength.
There are theoretically hundreds of thousands of people around the world who have enough money to pay for a car, but when you get to asking for the actual payment, surprisingly few people are prepared to cough it up. This is particularly true for a car with a narrow focus, "odd" driving position and few safety features. Just look at how Porsche are struggling to get commitments for the final few CGTs, and then factor in that in current money the CGT is one-thrid the price of an F1, and everybody recognises and is comfortable with the Prosche marque, servicing issues, etc.
In the second half of 2000, demand for the F1 grew importantly when it became possible to import one into the US under the "Show-or-Display" law. The fact more than half the cars that have changed hands since the law came into being have come to the States suggests the influence that this incremental demand had on prices.
I expect that the price of the cars will trend upwardly, but you never know. Once the Greens are done with their handiwork, we may all be on buses.

ApexClipper (preference for an Enzo) -
As is a CGT, an Enzo is certainly quicker around a conventional circuit than an F1 is. Then again, an Imprezza is quicker than maranellouk's 250GTO.
I must share with you a true story. Last summer at the Nurburgring a German car mag was doing a photo shoot with an Enzo, CGT, Gallardo, and others. Each car had been brought to the place by a factory man. The weather was fairly hot.
At about midday I was having a bratwurst at the local service station when the Enzo pulled in to refuel. The driver hopped out and went to unscrew the fuel cap. An instant after he touched the cap he jerked his hand away, spun around and plunged the hand into a bucket of windscreen-washing water. After a bit of hand-quenching, he hoisted the bucket and dumped all the water onto the fuel cap. He then unscrewed the cap with his other hand.

Guydw (speaking in defense of London) -
Nothing against London - it's the nicest big city in the world. I said that the F1 showroom was about the best reason to visit London, not the only reason.

wolves wanderer (other anecdotes about grannies?) -
I have tried to think of other "slice-of-life" F1 experiences that another person might like to hear. The problem with an anecdote is that the person telling it usually find it more interesting than his listener does. With that in mind, I humbly offer the following three items:

- Back when the car was living in and registered in the UK, a buddy mentioned that he had a traffic police friend who was a devoted F1 fan (big poster on the conjugal bedroom wall) and who he was sure would hugely appreciate going out in mine. I was happy to make the offer.
The three of us went out on a Sunday a.m. run. I was aware that this gentleman (the policeman) drove his personal car very quickly when conditions allowed and thus on our morning together I could be uninhibited. Indeed, I saw this excursion as giving me an ultimate "Get-out-of-jail-free" card for that day, should I be stopped by the police.
After a while we swapped places and the policeman took the wheel. Considering that he had never before driven anything like an F1, his driving was really impressive. His gearshifts in particular were superb. The policeman drove for a couple hours and then we stopped for lunch. During our lunchtime chat he asserted that as an officer he had a big problem with anyone driving at 50mph in a village, but he had no problem with someone driving 150mph on an open road if the conditions were right. (Sounds like a good candidate for Chief Constable for North Wales, doesn't he?)
The day ended without event a few hours later. A week later, however, I got a letter from Thames Valley Police - 41 in a 30 on that Sunday. After checking the time and location, it proved to have occured when the officer was driving.
I phoned the fellow with the bad news. He took it like a man, commenting that it was "well worth it", and received his first-ever three points.
I believe that he requested the photo evidence.

- Also in the U.K., I think it was the late spring of 2001 when there had been many months of accumulating wetness. Although by this point it had not rained for a while, there were still many places where water stood in fields.
A friend who knows a lot about driving and is a broadly-capable man and I took the F1 out for a drive. Knowing his local roads, he directed me to a "shortcut" between two good driving roads. There were quite a few cars using this shortcut.
After half a mile we approached a big puddle of standing water that ran the full width of the road. It looked deep, and I was minded to undergo all the nuisance of a nine-point turn and head back, even though as we crept up to the puddle several cars had collected behind us. He on the other hand was confident that we could make it through the water safely.
He then flipped open his gullwing door and leaned way out of the car to get as good a view of the depth of the water as he could. Hanging out of the car, he kept encouraging me, shouting, "It's fine, keep going, it's fine!", while I drove as slowly as I could do.
After maybe ten seconds of crawling (this was a BIG puddle), I began to feel dampness at my feet. Not a good sign, but at this point there was definitely no turning back, and he continued to assure me that everything looked fine.
We finally made it to the other side. My feet were wet, and the carpet was squishing under them. As our pace increased and the car experienced modest G-loads, I could sense water sloshing around beneath me. We drove on looking for a good place to stop.
A few minutes later the car's interior began to get warm, as though the a/c were failing, and the water temperature needle was rising ominously. Further driving exacerbated the problem.
We pulled off the road, popped open the engine cover (as you do, even though your chances of ever identifying and fixing a problem are miniscule) and poked around. I phoned the F1 24-hour emergency number and discussed things with them, but they didn't have any effective advice except for me to drive the car in intervals after it had cooled and they would collect it in due course. Okay, fair enough.
Just then a car drove up behind us and stopped. The F1 has a distinct look, especially with the doors open, so it was obvious what car we had parked there. This stranger got out of his car, walked up, and announced, "Hi there. I work for McLaren and was just passing. You seem to have a problem; can I be of help?"
"What luck!" I thought. I explained that we had gone through the puddle, the car afterwards was overheating, and so on. He replied, "Oh. Well, I just work in the Accounting Department, so I really can't help you there."
It was, however, nice of him to stop.
I got the car to a secure place and the next day McLaren collected it. It seemed that the water had been so deep that a radiator fan fuse had shorted, and so on. It took them a day just to dry out the carpets and clean out the silt.
I thought that that would be the end of it, but a few weeks later I was with two friends on another country drive. One was driving and he suddenly said that he couldn't move the gearstick. He got the car pulled over and I had a try. Sure enough, the gearstick was frozen. You could disengage the clutch but the gearbox was stuck in third gear. After some conversation we agreed that I would try to drive the car back towards one of our homes. With two passengers I was easily able to drive over 100 miles, limited to third gear, to get the car back to base.
McLaren discovered that the floodwater had dissolved the grease where the gear linkage fit to the transaxle; hence the linkage had jammed.

- On the French Autoroute last year I stopped at a rest area to use the gents'. I parked the F1 out in front. A couple minutes later as I was about to leave the building and walk to the car I saw that two gendarmes were standing next to it, alternatively looking at the car and then scanning around in all directions. I elected to wait until they lost interest and then I would return to it.
They just kept waiting and waiting, poring over the car for brief periods and then looking around the car park. I got a sandwich and sat down to pass the time. This continued for half an hour, with no change in their behaviour. I may have been driving fairly quickly before I stopped, but it hadn't been anything outrageous. Can these guys, I wondered, really be lying in wait to do me for a speeding offence? Nothing else came to mind.
Finally I tired of waiting and decided to bite the bullet. I walked up to them and asked if there was a problem, because this was my car and I needed to get moving. One of them then explained that they had never seen a car like this before, and would I please start the engine and rev it so that the other guy could phone his girlfriend on his mobile and let her hear the engine note?
Ah yes, our European protectors hard at work.

Sorry, WW, but those are all that come to mind at the moment.

anniesdad (Z1 mirrors) -
Agreed that the Stradale mirrors, and a few others, would be an improvement. Not sure that the result would be worth the effort of re-fashioning the joint between shell and stem.
By the way, I asked my friend if I was sweating on the max run. He said no.

lotus lad (why no car before cerbera?) -
Until I was middle-aged I lived in big cities, from which decent places to drive were too difficult to reach. Also, I did not have much free time.

admiral (opinion of cerbera?) -
I wish that it had cost fifteen grand more and that TVR had put the money into improved build-quality. Doesn't everybody think that?

nel (F1 homologated in France?) -
Don't know if it was ever officially approved for France. There was definitely only one F1 that was crash-tested (intentionally, that is), and that took place in the UK. As of the mid-'90s, the F1 was the only car that was driveable away from its crash-test.
nel, did Ferrari crash-test two Enzos for access to the French market? Will the great French marque Bugatti be required to sacrifice two Veyrons?

Rob P (after getting used to the power, is it less impressive that it was?) -
To be honest with you, no. That's probably because you almost never use all the power.

ettore (Frazer Nash LM Rep/Alfa33/3) -
If I was thinking along those lines, I'd prefer, respectively, an Alfa 8C and a 312M.

whatever (F1 v. Cerbera/why not two small water rads?) -
The F1 is two or three increments more accelerative than the Cerbie, I'd guess.
On the rads, I believe that the larger one, which was developed as a retro-fit item, barely squeezes into the space available and is in a slightly-more efficient design. You only need the larger one if it's in the high 20's and you're pushing hard.

Neil H (approach to cleaning/any tricky moments at the wheel/any negative reactions?) -
I just wash it. I don't know much about wax.
The two worst moments were, first, at Bruntingthorpe, where over time the car had done numerous 200mph runs, but once day at 180 the car took on this strong low-frequency "wave" motion from the rear that seemed to be beyond the influence of steering inputs. It was one of those experiences that we've all had in principle, when you know that your problem is caused by speed but you also know that to lift off would be disastrous. It was a stomach-churner. We later discovered that there was a problem with the front ride heights.
The second was when I was experimenting with understeer at the limit on a curving slip road, I eased off a tiny bit (really), and it snapped into violent oversteer.
I have never had a negative reaction of which I was aware.

hobo (any daughters?) -
No children, I'm afraid.

anniesdad (different wheels on the orange F1?) -
You can get a wheelmaker to keep the centres solid and then machine them to fit the F1's centre-lock hubs. BBS have already agreed to do this for me for three-pieces so that we can experiment with different wheel widths.
I would like to end up with one of the two original designs that were used on the production cars (exclusive of the Long-tail, which wore those hideous multi-multi-spoke OZ racing wheels).

s works (what car to buy with £20K?) -
I don't have an intelligent answer to give. What would anyone else buy?

greg D (line of work?) -
The stock market.


rico (daily driver/favourite circuit?) -
P 993 Turbo S.
The Nordschleife is incomparable. The odd thing is, in Germany you seem to come across two camps of enthusiasts, those who love it and those who, despite great driving skill, won't go near it.
I don't take the F1 to a circuit very often. You can have much more fun on a circuit in many other cars.

By now I think that we all must be F1-ed out. I hope that some PH'ers found this worth their while. If you found the anecdotes, in particular, tedious, unfortunately they were the best that I could come up with.

Cheers.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Friday 6th August 2004
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If I may, I'll get back to you next week, either on this thread or, if necessary, on another new one.
Thanks.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Friday 6th August 2004
quotequote all

Ettore - I obviously should have written 312PB, not 312M.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Tuesday 10th August 2004
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Replies to individuals:

Gazboy (how do you get cover for other drivers?) -
As long as someone has got third-party already, if I've made the decision to let him (no women yet) drive it, I am trusting him not to bend it. If he did then I guess that that would be my problem.
The car's been scratched just once, and that was my own doing. (well, actually it's been scratched twice, but once it was the fault of a bird <the avian kind>.

maranellouk (after owning it, do I like it as much as I did before I got it?) -
I like it more. As I said previously, every time that I drive it the feeling is vivid and uplifting. Yesterday I was out on some country roads, trying initial suspension mod's. Without having to go crazy with the speed, every minute of the time was great. The driving position, the fit of the driver's seat, the view around you, the induction roar above your head, the instantaneous response, the steering feedback, the challenge of the gearbox - you really are in a different world to everything else. As I also said previously, I only drive the car if my head is in the game. It takes a while to relax in it, and even then one's senses are always on alert. It demands a lot and gives as much back.
Going from the F1 to a GT3 or a 360 (no offence intended), for example, is like going from a GT3 or a 360 to a Jaguar X-Type diesel.
On second thought, that's too harsh. I should have said the X-Type petrol version.
The contents of the CD player would make you laugh. It's usually female vocalists (whom you can't really hear over the engine and road noise), and some rock (Spencer Davis Group, Blue Oyster Cult). Nothing that anyone would find interesting.

GreaseNipple (do many others drive it?) -
A few friends have driven it often. Altogether maybe twenty or thirty friends or acquaintances have driven it.
It gets awkward considering the prospect of another person's driving it. I don't worry so much about whether they'll prang it, as everyone has appeared to do his best to exercise restraint (although that concept seems to mean different things to different people). Generally the worrying thing is what they'll do to the clutch/gearbox. So far, only two folks have shifted its gears poorly, and they were both experienced racers, as it happens. (In fact, the clutch must be fairly durable to have successfully withstood these two people's clumsiness, so God only knows how some folks seem to go through a clutch every few thousand miles.)
I much prefer to have ridden with someone when he's driving his own car before making a judgment about whether I should let him drive the F1. On a number of occasions, however, that's not been feasible. I can't very well tell someone that he'll need to pass a test beforehand.

Guydw (valuation of 250GTO?) -
You disagree with my estimate of £3M. That estimate may be all wrong, but do you think that it is too high or too low?
I think that "Classic Car" or one of those currently shows a price of £2M for a top-class car. Their estimates are routinely optimistic by 50%. I believe that, furthermore, about eighteen months ago a 250GTO of exceptionally good provenance was offered at auction with a $10M reserve, but the bidding stopped at between 8 and 9.
Those are reference points for my wild-ass guess of £3M for an average example. What do you think?

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Tuesday 10th August 2004
quotequote all

The car is on the Continent. If you want more detail, consider in what European country other than Britain they know how to build cars.
I worked in the stock market.
For insurance, as you will know there are many elements that influence a particular rate. Twelve thou sterling is in the ballpark.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Tuesday 10th August 2004
quotequote all

Oh yes, France has all sorts of wonderful things to offer, such as, such as, such as...a lot of open space that is devoid of Frenchmen.
Actually the car has always gotten a friendly reception in France. It seems that although the French don't manufacture or drive decent cars, they do appreciate them.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Wednesday 11th August 2004
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The rich ones, or the smart ones.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Wednesday 11th August 2004
quotequote all

How about this:
over the weekend I'll be with several (quite skilled) driving-mad friends who have all spent time behind the wheel of the F1 (while it's in motion, that is). Would anyone be interested in hearing their thoughts about driving the car? Their opinions would be much more impartial than mine. If you like, I'll ask them for their views and then report back.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Wednesday 11th August 2004
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I shall try to put something together after speaking with my friends.
In case there is any doubt about whether I like the thing: I like it immensely.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Wednesday 11th August 2004
quotequote all

Ideal day out is six hours driving on Continental roads by myself (not that I mind my friends' company, but there is a noticeable change in the car's performance - handling especially - when you're two or three up), with one stop for fuel/food.
I have done several lengthy drives time-wise. The best was on a Sunday when a friend and I were going from the Nurburgring to Britain, and we decided to take a detour via Dijon (as you would).
We left before dawn. There's some great curvy Autobahn going southwest towards Metz. Next we were onto the Autoroute early enough in the morning that we could ignore the speed limit there as well. You know how great some of the French roads can be.
We got off the Autoroute near Troyes and took the D-roads from there south to Dijon, which I suppose is about a hundred miles of some of the best driving on Earth. Also, it was in the autumn, so the colours were at their most brilliant.
When we got to Dijon we turned back, as we did need to make it back to Britain that night. After we had essentially retraced our steps back as far, roughly, as Troyes, however, we decided that we needed to do the best bit over again, so we drove back to Dijon. Then we reluctantly turned back for real, took D-roads going north for as far as we could do, and eventually got back to the roads of Britain, which as usual induced clinical depression.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Wednesday 11th August 2004
quotequote all

bor (do F1's top speed and price disproportionately influence how it is thought of?) -
You raise an interesting question, on which, as you say, it could be illuminating to hear many opinions. For what they are worth, my uncomposed thoughts are:
- Price and top speed alone are not decisive. If they were then people would be slavering over the prospect of the Veyron, instead of being bored by its pointlessness. (Having driven one, I can confirm that it's a yawn.)
- The price of an F1 was round about what it cost to build one. There could be an accounting debate over how to weight one-time design and development expenses, which in the case of the F1 were amortised over many fewer vehicles than would apply to Enzo or CGT. Nonetheless the buyer of an F1 was pretty much getting what he had paid for. This contrasts with the other builders, who for various reasons have built substantial profit margins into the price of their cars.
- To my knowledge there was no stated, formal top speed for the F1 until the factory did its record run in 1998, which was roughly at the end of production. For practical purposes, therefore, the car's reputation grew despite no one's knowing how fast it was.
- When modified F1 road cars dominated Le Mans and the global GT series in '95 and '96 (excepting Le Mans in '96), it was unique in modern racing and must have helped to burnish the image.
- I think that people were charmed by the idea that an outfit whose experience was exclusively in purpose-built race cars was undertaking to make the ultimate road car. The same sort of convergence between racing and road car programs is why Ferrari road cars have, despite their big cumulative numbers, developed such a rarefied status while Lamborghinis are looked upon with indulgent sympathy.
- The car came at an inflection point in motoring history. Most of the important parts of its technology and construction are modern, but it just avoided being spoiled by our bureaucratic masters, so the F1 is not burdened with airbags, crumple zones and side impact bars, not to mention the now-ubiquitous ABS, traction control, et al. The F1 remains pure, and we are probably not going to see its like again.
- The central driving position separates it from the others.
- It is a trivial feature, but some people get excited about the gold-leaf reflective film.
- When it was reviewed by the magazines in '94-'95, most of the writers had not experienced anything like it. As a result, they searched the language for unused hyperbolic metaphors. A current car may be in some ways superior, but it is unlikely to be as much of a departure from its contemporaries.
- The Enzo and CGT were aimed at and built for a market. The F1 (and, to be fair, the Zonda) were built to a vision. I think that people have more respect for the latter mentality.

All these elements and probably others helped to generate the car's image. The speed and price definitely helped, but it's ironic that no one today seems to care whether a Veyron, Koenigsegg or other turbo-barge can go faster.

anniesdad (Wyclef's wheels) -
I suspect this fellow Wyclef (with whom I am only familiar because of his role in those cute "know-what-you're-signing" commercials) is not the sort of owner that Gordon Murray had in mind a decade ago, but who am I to say? I hope that he is a proper petrolhead and real driver, but the evidence so far is not encouraging. Then again, if I had insight into the virtues of diamond-encrusted wheels I might be a better person.
With regard to rescuing his car, if I or someone else did so, presumably Mr Jean would just get another. In addition, even if his car was for sale at normal market value, is it the example that one would want to buy? The concepts of diamond-encrusted wheels and mechanical sympathy do not seem to go together like hand and glove.
Now, if we were talking about rubies...

martin robson (Light Car Company Rocket?) -
The car is probably a fine drive, but I prefer not to need a helmet to keep the bugs off my face.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Thursday 12th August 2004
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Veyron:
I don't know how close to the proposed 1000bhp these pre-production cars had. Close enough for government work, I should think. Sure, there was a powerful acceleration, but you're constantly aware of all the mass that the power is trying to lug around.
The Veyron reminds me of Flavio Briatore - you know, the T-shirt salesman who's wormed his way into the bowels of Formula One. So self-important and mannered, and yet so crude. (What kind of man has his initials embroidered onto his slippers?)
Colloquially we might say that the Veyron "weighs a tonne", except that it weighs two tonnes. These heavy cars just can't cut it. No matter how sophisticated the suspension, powerful the engine or strong the brakes, heavy is bad.
To mimic in 2004 the radiator cowl from an eighty-year-old car does not show a lot of imagination, nor does repeating that shape in the centre console.
Like the SLR, the Veyron doesn't have a proper gearshift. That in itself shows that the car's not meant for driving. Not to mention, as said before, the diamonds on the tach and speedo needles. Wyclef would be proud.
My understanding is that Audi intend to limit the car's top speed to something like 325 kph for the owner's private use. If you wished to do 400, you would need to go to a special test facility, get special wheels and tyres fitted, and then be taken out with a professional driver. That's what I have heard, but I don't know that anything has been finalised (as it couldn't very well be until Audi know whether they're actually going to produce the car).

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Thursday 12th August 2004
quotequote all

If that's the sporty 575 that's about to be offered, what's the point of a rollcage in a true GT?
The Fiorano pack does make a huge difference, and the car's engine is a gem (how many V12s aren't?) If they could put the car on a 200kg diet it would be really nice. Then if Ferrari would stop making mid-engined sportscars and do only GTs, it might become respectable.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Friday 27th August 2004
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RobbieMeister:
A good question, the answer to which could be "all three", but is really "both Eds". I grew up cheering for Senior and now I cheer for Junior. I don't think that I ever saw George race, although I met him once or twice when I was a kid.
Did you locate the names on the Internet, or were you already familiar with them?

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Tuesday 31st August 2004
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Luckily I was able to get to know Sr some before he died twenty years ago. My brothers and I know Jr fairly well and I'm painting a helmet for him now. They're my favourites, but it has to be said that their class of racing isn't anywhere near what Hill had done by the early '70s.
It is interesting to see how many of the retired drivers from the '50s-'80s walk with a limp - the great majority of them, it seems.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Wednesday 22nd September 2004
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Razer:
If you don't mind, I would prefer to discuss here on Pistonheads.
Cheers.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Thursday 23rd September 2004
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Anniesdad:
Thanks for asking.
The project is about half-finished.
Front and rear wishbones and the links from the anti-roll bar to the uprights have been replaced with adjustable versions of the originals. Caster, camber and ARB stiffness have all been changed from the un-adjustable factory spec. Front and rear toe have been changed. The springs have been replaced and the dampers have been modified and have new settings.
The car is now much better - more stable in a straight line and under heavy braking, better turn-in, more stable and planted in transitions and mid-bend. The one drawback is heavier steering, as you would expect.
Next week we will put stiffer bushes on the transaxle to reduce the unsettling lateral compliance at the back. Then we will experiment with tyres and wheel dimensions, which I hope to have resolved before the weather turns bad. Changing the wheels/tyres will in theory effect the biggest improvement of all. Barring a problem, new wheels should be made over the winter.
I have only a layman's minimal understanding of the above. The man who is doing the work, however, is ace.
Open items are what, if anything, to do about the brakes and the heavy steering.
I am working on finding out what sort of tiny power-steering systems are used in Formula One, and whether a version might be available to me from an independent supplier. The concept of power steering may sound like heresy, but overall the car would benefit from it.


flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Thursday 23rd September 2004
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Fatboy:
Do you have an idea of the size and weight of one of those systems? In the F1 there isn't much available space under the dash for the column unit of an electronic system, and none whatever around the rack (which is part of the cast magnesium bulkhead in front of the driver's feet).
The black boxes can be mounted in the luggage area, but the column apparatus appears to be a problem. My presumption is that the systems on Formula One cars are petite, both for space and weight reasons. Perhaps the same is true of WRC cars, if only for the weight savings.
Cheers.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Friday 24th September 2004
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Pete:
I do not know much more than you probably do about their future projects, about which McL would be discreet both for their own sake and as an obligation to D-C.
Based on what I was told, the reports a few months ago in Autocar were largely accurate: the primary new project is aimed at the 360/Gallardo/GT2 market.
In light of the challenge McL has had to become a small-volume manufacturer of the SLR, I daresay that they are unlikely to be jumping into multiple larger-scale projects until SLR production is functioning to their satisfaction. Demand for the SLR is such that they are hoping to raise production to three cars per day, but they are not there yet.
McLaren have not made a special effort to persuade me to order an SLR. This was perhaps because I told them that it did not seem to be my kind of car, perhaps because they knew that I was getting a C. GT and there is only so much driving that a man can do.
They are proud of the SLR, insofar as the project required them to learn and develop as an organisation, and also because most of the car's dynamic abilities are impressive. The McLaren folks are not the sort to lay a sales pitch on you.
They recently related to me this anecdote: an F1 owner who lives in the US wanted to get an SLR. McLaren themselves were happy to give him a VIP day at the new McLaren Technology Centre and a comprehensive test drive at the local circuit. They could not, however, give him any priority for the delivery of a new car, so his is scheduled to arrive in 2006. Make of that what you will. I believe that SLR sales are exclusively the domain of a limited number of Mercedes dealers.

Fatboy:
If I knew of a WRC or other readily-available system that would work, I would jump at it. As minimal size is essential to the feasibility for me of such a system, my assumption is that I might have better luck exploring Formula One suppliers. I don't know whether either F3000 or IRL/Champ Cars allows power steering, but their suppliers might also be options. I have just started to check out the suitability of power steering, so I know little.

danhf:
Yes, one is put off by the thought of using genuine Fiat or Ferrari parts - even on a Ferrari.
I may, however, end up using the Bridgestones that were designed for the Enzo. They have the advantages of having the right width and possibly the right diameter, a sufficient speed rating, handling characteristics meant for a car that is much like the F1 in the relevant ways, and the certainty of availability for many years to come.

Anniesdad:
I would be crazy (okay, crazier) to mess with the car's aerodynamics. In this case I do not believe that we are doing so.
I cannot recall if I mentioned this before, but on their 391kph record run McL changed a few things from standard spec (springs, dampers, ride heights, toe, ARB).
My car's new set-up includes those different springs and ride heights. So far as I know (that is to say, speaking from the land of the ignorant), toe and ARB would not have much to do with aero effects.
This leaves dampers. The man developing the car for me is comfortable with them now, but we'll do some testing to see whether there is any aero influence. I probably will not do another max speed run in future, although I wouldn't rule out 205-210, especially if the car feels more stable that it used to do.

flemke

Original Poster:

22,865 posts

238 months

Friday 8th October 2004
quotequote all

Anniesdad -
On another thread you, I think, raised the question of what sort of time an F1 might do at the Nordschleife.
Like an idiot I forgot to ask the guys at McL today whether they had timed a lap when they took a car there some years ago. I did, however, try to get an answer earlier in the week.
First I asked the fellow who is developing the car's suspension for me and who is one of the world's ultimate drivers on the 'Ring. His guess is that, once we've got the right tyres on it, it would likely do something in the 7:45-50 range. He thinks that the limiting factor would be aerodynamic.
It is true that the car begins to get slightly lighter at 140-150. This instability is marginal until maybe 205, as I have mentioned before. What I cannot opine on is the interplay between that unique circuit's plethora of bumps, undulations and camber changes and the F1's aerodynamics. There are only a few places where one could expect to go faster than 150 or so, and two where 180-190, maybe 200, is possible, so I'm not sure how much of a compromise to one's speed the car's aerodynamics might bring about. I am sure, as said before, that the car would not be as quick as a CGT. Also as said before, the F1 GTR is a different story, but the race cars aren't really usable as street cars, even the few that have been made road-legal.
The other thing that I did that might have shed a bit of light on the question was to do a couple of laps at the 'Ring. In its present form the car has, at last, what should be the right basic suspension geometry. For the first time in my experience the car's handling is integrated and somewhat predictable. The steering is much more precise, and the back end feels reasonably planted.
With a lot more positive castor now, the steering is much heavier. On the circuit this can be a problem, especially in medium-speed bends that seem to be at the "sweet" spot (sour is more like it) of inducing a lot of loading on the outside front tyre while requiring a lot of lock. In Steilstrecke and parts of the Hatzenbach, for example, there were times when I just did not have the strength to add the extra bit of lock that I wanted.
Improving the tyres has always been our highest priority objective. Now that the rest of the package is kind of sorted, the limitations of the high sidewalls are very obvious; their lateral flexibility is no longer being mixed together with other phenomena. You can feel distinctly the tyres' shortcomings when you turn the steering wheel and sense that the front wheels are rotating as you intend them to do, but then there is a momentary (a third of a second?) delay until the contact patch has twisted enough to realign with the longitudinal axis of the wheels.
I hope that before the weather turns we will have some three-piece wheel centres made that will fit the F1's centre-lock hubs and drive pegs. As soon as they are made we can experiment with different tyres and engage someone to make some permanent one-piece wheels.
A friend who was with me video'd some driving of the car on the day (I'm not saying that`anything was recorded at the circuit itself, which would be against the rules). He thought that it might be worthwhile to post on PH a segment of the recording. With the volume turned up enough the reproduction of the engine and induction noises is surprisingly accurate.
Do you think that folks might be interested in our posting part of the recording?