Discussion
It's as real a threat as there's been from him about quitting. This time around though, the reason is something that was caused by their own lack of discipline when facing the media, and it coming back to bite them. Wind the clock back to 2014, and those very public jibes directed at Renault. It didn't sit well, and if they were allowed to, Renault would have walked away from RBR at the end of that year.
Merc and Ferrari had no interest in providing them a power unit (we have to assume because it would make it the best car overall), so Renault were duty bound to keep providing engines. The underlying issue being that with their track record of being critical of their supply chain when things were anything other than a cake walk, it meant no power unit supplier would really volunteer their services unless they were having their own dramas and looked like they'd be without a customer...
...enter - Honda. Divorced from McLaren following some heated exchanges, and wholesale blamed for the lack of performance in the car. We now know that to not be the case, but once your reputation is mud, it's a case of guilty until proven innocent. Torro Rosso, as the 'B' team make a useful test mule. It kept Honda in the fold, after all the money and time they've invested, and if they do a good enough job, it would be adopted by RBR for 2019 - but it's likely they'd have no choice but to use it even if it was a turd, as Renault, providing it's very best French cuisine in the shape of cold served karma, wouldn't be powering their cars next year anyway (that was my understanding at least).
RBR had nowhere to turn, and they have to hope Honda sort it out - in a way I hope they do; they've been through a lot, dealt with a lot of flak and (as shown this year), weren't the root cause of McLaren's issues. On the other hand, Red Bull don't tend to play well with others, and their very public slagging off a supply chain partner, hasn't and wont help them in the long term. I hope RBR are more receptive to the cooling and packaging needs than they have been with Renault, otherwise they can just expect more of the same next year.
On a long enough timeline, the Honda engine might come good, and overtake Ferrari as being the big dog in the power unit stakes, but I think RBR need to be realistic that those days might not be as soon as Melbourne next year, so by mid-2019 it wouldn't be surprising if Horner / Marko start rattling the sabre about how useless they believe Honda to be.
Merc and Ferrari had no interest in providing them a power unit (we have to assume because it would make it the best car overall), so Renault were duty bound to keep providing engines. The underlying issue being that with their track record of being critical of their supply chain when things were anything other than a cake walk, it meant no power unit supplier would really volunteer their services unless they were having their own dramas and looked like they'd be without a customer...
...enter - Honda. Divorced from McLaren following some heated exchanges, and wholesale blamed for the lack of performance in the car. We now know that to not be the case, but once your reputation is mud, it's a case of guilty until proven innocent. Torro Rosso, as the 'B' team make a useful test mule. It kept Honda in the fold, after all the money and time they've invested, and if they do a good enough job, it would be adopted by RBR for 2019 - but it's likely they'd have no choice but to use it even if it was a turd, as Renault, providing it's very best French cuisine in the shape of cold served karma, wouldn't be powering their cars next year anyway (that was my understanding at least).
RBR had nowhere to turn, and they have to hope Honda sort it out - in a way I hope they do; they've been through a lot, dealt with a lot of flak and (as shown this year), weren't the root cause of McLaren's issues. On the other hand, Red Bull don't tend to play well with others, and their very public slagging off a supply chain partner, hasn't and wont help them in the long term. I hope RBR are more receptive to the cooling and packaging needs than they have been with Renault, otherwise they can just expect more of the same next year.
On a long enough timeline, the Honda engine might come good, and overtake Ferrari as being the big dog in the power unit stakes, but I think RBR need to be realistic that those days might not be as soon as Melbourne next year, so by mid-2019 it wouldn't be surprising if Horner / Marko start rattling the sabre about how useless they believe Honda to be.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 5th September 15:09
StevieBee said:
I don't think it does. At the moment at least. Formula E is attracting the manufacturers as it is they see electric motive power as the new 'mainstream' and Red Bull don't do mainstream. Quite the reverse.
It's a younger audience than F1 and arguably more relavant into the future. Red Bull would venture there for the same reason.StevieBee said:
Marketing isn't about simply getting a brand name in front of people. It's about getting in front of the right people on the right platform at the right time.
The Red Bull brand values are all about edginess, extremes, endurance, finding limits and exceeding them, etc.
The Formula E 'brand' values are all about efficiency, sustainability, technology. The alignment simply doesn't exist between the two - yet.
The next generation FE certainly look exciting and as the tech improves then we may well see the formula become more appealing to the likes of Red Bull but given they are probably the most astute marketing company in the world today, one would consider it reasonable that if they felt FE to be viable for them, they'd already be there.
Agree with what you've said. F1 has run its course for Red Bull. You will see more and more movement of brands to FE simply because it will capture more and more of the market. It is and will remain far cheaper to market in than F1 and will therefore offer a cost effective platform for marketers where they can show the board constant upward movement. The Red Bull brand values are all about edginess, extremes, endurance, finding limits and exceeding them, etc.
The Formula E 'brand' values are all about efficiency, sustainability, technology. The alignment simply doesn't exist between the two - yet.
The next generation FE certainly look exciting and as the tech improves then we may well see the formula become more appealing to the likes of Red Bull but given they are probably the most astute marketing company in the world today, one would consider it reasonable that if they felt FE to be viable for them, they'd already be there.
F1 is not such a good mass market show at the moment and poor value for money, which is why there's a dearth of headline sponsors clamouring over themselves to participate.
Agreed. One thing that I think is changing, though, is society- youngsters in particular.
When I was a kid through the early 80s onwards, I loved cars. I grew into loving anything petrol powered. All my mates were I to cars, were desperate to reach 17 and get their 'wings'.
I don't think youngsters now, in the western world at least, are a titillated by cars and motors in the same way as previous generations.
They're more interested in tech and, dare I say it, EVs and associated are closer to that tech than piston engined machines ever would be.
I love F1, despite the rule changes, the good years, the bad years, I love the machines and the battles and the noises and the smells. I think I'm in what is becoming an increasingly smaller minority.
That's why I think, as a marketing device, F1 will only get less and less relevant to mass-brands.
When I was a kid through the early 80s onwards, I loved cars. I grew into loving anything petrol powered. All my mates were I to cars, were desperate to reach 17 and get their 'wings'.
I don't think youngsters now, in the western world at least, are a titillated by cars and motors in the same way as previous generations.
They're more interested in tech and, dare I say it, EVs and associated are closer to that tech than piston engined machines ever would be.
I love F1, despite the rule changes, the good years, the bad years, I love the machines and the battles and the noises and the smells. I think I'm in what is becoming an increasingly smaller minority.
That's why I think, as a marketing device, F1 will only get less and less relevant to mass-brands.
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