"Sebastian Vettel a 'massively overrated one-trick pony"

[HighwayStar]

Eddie Irvine sticking the boot into Vettel, plus his opinion Lewis and unsurprising praise of Schumi.

He also has interesting views on the current state of F1... One being that manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to be team owners, only engine suppliers. I quite like the idea of that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46927041

[HighwayStar]

Irvine always struck me as someone with no really love of F1... like Villeneurve, saying controversial stuff and liking the sound of his own voice, getting a little attention along the way. Never generally a driver that held my attention when he spoke.

[HighwayStar]

Bo_apex said:

I think we can all agree that Michael Schumacher was an average 7 x WDC.

Hamilton and Vettel are currently just below average.

Irvine was quite a bit below average.

Interesting... so what’s average then?

[HighwayStar]

Bo_apex said:

HighwayStar said:

Bo_apex said:

I think we can all agree that Michael Schumacher was an average 7 x WDC.

Hamilton and Vettel are currently just below average.

Irvine was quite a bit below average.

Interesting... so what’s average then?

Clearly Michael Schumacher - judging by some of the comments found on PH.

Oops I meant above average.

I think Schumacher, with his talent, exploited whatever Ferrari produced at the time to the maximum. Brawn finally delivering great cars, bespoke Bridgestone tyres, able to test all day at Fiorano... more well prepared than drivers get in recent times. As much as I hate the fact that team mates were always wing men, getting told to mover long before maths came in it it’s clear that Michael had more in his locker than the other drivers. I rate Senna more, though he was no angel, because he had to fight his team mate as well... I like the art of the mind game too. Getting there is not all about what happens on the track.
I remember Linford Christie talk about the mind games played out before the start of the race and how he knew he’d already had the beating of his main rival.
Michael never gave presents away, unlike Vettel.
Vettel got it done though... unlike Irvine.
Having the best car is one think, you still have to get the best out of it like Button, Vettel, Lewis and Rosberg. I’m a big Lewis fan but Rosberg deserves his title. He pushed, played his mind games, had some luck... did what he to do. A worthy champion...

[HighwayStar]

Bo_apex said:

HighwayStar said:

Bo_apex said:

HighwayStar said:

Bo_apex said:

I think we can all agree that Michael Schumacher was an average 7 x WDC.

Hamilton and Vettel are currently just below average.

Irvine was quite a bit below average.

Interesting... so what’s average then?

Clearly Michael Schumacher - judging by some of the comments found on PH.

Oops I meant above average.

I think Schumacher, with his talent, exploited whatever Ferrari produced at the time to the maximum. Brawn finally delivering great cars, bespoke Bridgestone tyres, able to test all day at Fiorano... more well prepared than drivers get in recent times. As much as I hate the fact that team mates were always wing men, getting told to mover long before maths came in it it’s clear that Michael had more in his locker than the other drivers. I rate Senna more, though he was no angel, because he had to fight his team mate as well... I like the art of the mind game too. Getting there is not all about what happens on the track.
I remember Linford Christie talk about the mind games played out before the start of the race and how he knew he’d already had the beating of his main rival.
Michael never gave presents away, unlike Vettel.
Vettel got it done though... unlike Irvine.
Having the best car is one think, you still have to get the best out of it like Button, Vettel, Lewis and Rosberg. I’m a big Lewis fan but Rosberg deserves his title. He pushed, played his mind games, had some luck... did what he to do. A worthy champion...

I can't disagree with any of that.
Mika Hakkinen and McLaren were mighty,
And it would have been 9 x WDC for Schumacher had the FIA and Bernie not suddenly dumped on Bridgestone, as confirmed by Brawn.
Rosberg provided a tough battle which was excellent for the sport, and a well deserved WDC.

2019 could also provide a few fun surprises.

Yes, I listen to the Brawn podcast as well but it was widely known that Bridgestone developed the tyres for the Bridgestone runners with Ferrari as there development team.
I think that was a big mistake by the FIA...
If a team exploits the rules better than the others then so be it... that’s F1, how it is and how I like it but a general supplier shouldn’t be able to be exploited by one team to be to all intents and purposes the that teams factory supplier.

[HighwayStar]

sparta6 said:

entropy said:

As much as a fan and huge respect for Michael's talent and success he never had an equal as teammate so is it surprising he was much more "on it" compared to Lewis battling Nico for a number of years, though Michael would still be more on it than Lewis as Michael was much more humble and less distractions.

Mika Hakinnen was the only other driver to have similar speed to Michael, but his loyalty to Ron and his magnificent McLaren prevented him from being Schumacher's teammate. Probably to Mika's advantage as the Ferrari was dog rough for a while. It would have been great to watch them a teammates though !

Rubbish... That's not how Ferrari do things and you know it. There would never have been and offer from Ferrari to pair him with Michael and Hakinnen had no interest in going to Ferrari. There has never even any speculation... I'd agree it would've been good to see another top line driver in the same team, free to race Michael and McLaren and Mercedes have done but it's just not the Ferrari way.

[HighwayStar]

sparta6 said:

HighwayStar said:

sparta6 said:

entropy said:

As much as a fan and huge respect for Michael's talent and success he never had an equal as teammate so is it surprising he was much more "on it" compared to Lewis battling Nico for a number of years, though Michael would still be more on it than Lewis as Michael was much more humble and less distractions.

Mika Hakinnen was the only other driver to have similar speed to Michael, but his loyalty to Ron and his magnificent McLaren prevented him from being Schumacher's teammate. Probably to Mika's advantage as the Ferrari was dog rough for a while. It would have been great to watch them a teammates though !

Rubbish... That's not how Ferrari do things and you know it. There would never have been and offer from Ferrari to pair him with Michael and Hakinnen had no interest in going to Ferrari. There has never even any speculation... I'd agree it would've been good to see another top line driver in the same team, free to race Michael and McLaren and Mercedes have done but it's just not the Ferrari way.

Interesting...are you suggesting that Alesi and Berger did not have similar speed ?

Did I say that, did I mention Jean and Gerhard?
Seriously!!! Top line drivers? How many WDCs do they have between them... oh wait....
I thought we were talking drivers on the level of Hakinnen and Schumacher duking it out for the title.
We've seen plenty of team mates scrapping lower down the grid. Max and DRic, Ocon and Perez.

[HighwayStar]

sparta6 said:

HighwayStar said:

sparta6 said:

HighwayStar said:

sparta6 said:

entropy said:

As much as a fan and huge respect for Michael's talent and success he never had an equal as teammate so is it surprising he was much more "on it" compared to Lewis battling Nico for a number of years, though Michael would still be more on it than Lewis as Michael was much more humble and less distractions.

Mika Hakinnen was the only other driver to have similar speed to Michael, but his loyalty to Ron and his magnificent McLaren prevented him from being Schumacher's teammate. Probably to Mika's advantage as the Ferrari was dog rough for a while. It would have been great to watch them a teammates though !

Rubbish... That's not how Ferrari do things and you know it. There would never have been and offer from Ferrari to pair him with Michael and Hakinnen had no interest in going to Ferrari. There has never even any speculation... I'd agree it would've been good to see another top line driver in the same team, free to race Michael and McLaren and Mercedes have done but it's just not the Ferrari way.

Interesting...are you suggesting that Alesi and Berger did not have similar speed ?

Did I say that, did I mention Jean and Gerhard?
Seriously!!! Top line drivers? How many WDCs do they have between them... oh wait....
I thought we were talking drivers on the level of Hakinnen and Schumacher duking it out for the title.
We've seen plenty of team mates scrapping lower down the grid. Max and DRic, Ocon and Perez.

"That's not how Ferrari do things" you said. Pairing drivers with comparable speed ?

Both Alesi and Berger were fast, albeit with different approaches.
The Ferrari was a bit of an unreliable dog and they only managed a diminutive amount of race wins.

A worthwhile read

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article...

Ok, you said you’d liked to have seen Hakinnen and Schumacher at Ferrari. They like their number 1 plus a wingman. Hakinnen wouldn’t have accepted that.
Neither Alesi or Berger were getting near a title in a Ferrari at that time.

[HighwayStar]

sparta6 said:

HighwayStar said:

sparta6 said:

HighwayStar said:

sparta6 said:

HighwayStar said:

sparta6 said:

entropy said:

As much as a fan and huge respect for Michael's talent and success he never had an equal as teammate so is it surprising he was much more "on it" compared to Lewis battling Nico for a number of years, though Michael would still be more on it than Lewis as Michael was much more humble and less distractions.

Mika Hakinnen was the only other driver to have similar speed to Michael, but his loyalty to Ron and his magnificent McLaren prevented him from being Schumacher's teammate. Probably to Mika's advantage as the Ferrari was dog rough for a while. It would have been great to watch them a teammates though !

Rubbish... That's not how Ferrari do things and you know it. There would never have been and offer from Ferrari to pair him with Michael and Hakinnen had no interest in going to Ferrari. There has never even any speculation... I'd agree it would've been good to see another top line driver in the same team, free to race Michael and McLaren and Mercedes have done but it's just not the Ferrari way.

Interesting...are you suggesting that Alesi and Berger did not have similar speed ?

Did I say that, did I mention Jean and Gerhard?
Seriously!!! Top line drivers? How many WDCs do they have between them... oh wait....
I thought we were talking drivers on the level of Hakinnen and Schumacher duking it out for the title.
We've seen plenty of team mates scrapping lower down the grid. Max and DRic, Ocon and Perez.

"That's not how Ferrari do things" you said. Pairing drivers with comparable speed ?

Both Alesi and Berger were fast, albeit with different approaches.
The Ferrari was a bit of an unreliable dog and they only managed a diminutive amount of race wins.

A worthwhile read

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article...

Ok, you said you’d liked to have seen Hakinnen and Schumacher at Ferrari. They like their number 1 plus a wingman. Hakinnen wouldn’t have accepted that.
Neither Alesi or Berger were getting near a title in a Ferrari at that time.

As the hottest driver of the period, Ferrari quite rightly invested major ££££ for Michael's services - and to try and win the WDC.
That does not automatically mean Ferrari put all their eggs in one basket - and without seeing the contract it's pure speculation.
Even Ross Brawn stated they wanted Irvine to win the WDC when Schumacher was out with a broken leg.

Ferrari has always been gunning for wins and the coveted WDC, with all of its drivers. If that car had been upto the job Alesi or Berger would have bagged a WDC.

.... but that is exactly what Ferrari did... I remember races early in the season, where maths didn't come into it, team mates being asked to pull over and let Michael through. There was a press conference, Barrichello had re-signed to Ferrari. He was asked if he was a number 2 or equal status to Schumi... He claimed they had equal status. When questioned further he again stressed they were equal, Michael was 1 and he was 1B.
Austria 02, 6 races in to a 17 race season. Rubens got the call to step aside. He didn't. Then he got the think about your contract. He moved over.
1B = all their eggs in one basket.
With Michael out of commission and Eddie in with a shot at the WDC, why wouldn't Ross want Irvine to win it?