Saudi Arabia added to 2021 calender
Discussion
A race along the shore of the red sea - albeit at night so could be anywhere 
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.everyth...
Layout (I think this is final layout)
And in someones wet dream they think it'll look a bit like this when it relocates to a permanent track (in a theme park!?) in 2-3 years time.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.everyth...
Layout (I think this is final layout)
And in someones wet dream they think it'll look a bit like this when it relocates to a permanent track (in a theme park!?) in 2-3 years time.
Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 5th November 15:21
sgtBerbatov said:
I'm quite excited to see the return of Stewart GP, if that second image is to be believed.
Otherwise, roll on a woman getting in to F1 and winning a race there.
Otherwise, roll on a woman getting in to F1 and winning a race there.
Quite a variety of different era cars in that image! I'm not sure whoever created it knows very much about F1!!
Big Nanas said:
Yes you can see its anti clockwise with the grid space directions.
Looks pretty decent to me, who designed it?
Not a clue. Seems very little information on it, other than 'it's happening'.Looks pretty decent to me, who designed it?
I don't think the articles I skimmed through even mentioned that it was anti-clockwise, but it obviously is. I guess now it's official we'll see some simulator footage fairly soon. They must already have had it in the sims to get some feedback on the proposed layout and speeds etc.
I'm not expecting any elevation changes, the area looks to be entirely flat.
Sandpit Steve said:
TheDeuce said:
politics aside - what do people think of the circuit?
Note that it appears to run ant-clockwise if the runoffs etc are correct as indicated on the image above.
Anti-clockwise is good. It was said last weekend that Imola was the first a/c track this year, which was surprising. For some reason clockwise tracks seem to the norm in Europe. Note that it appears to run ant-clockwise if the runoffs etc are correct as indicated on the image above.
The only straight bit on the whole track seems to be past the pits, and it’s probably the only overtaking spot. Last two corners look like they’re probably flat in an F1 car, so the last real corner is the chicane before that. There seems to be a good mix of slow, medium and high speed corners.
The render is too close to the water in a lot of places, there will need to be more runoffs than in the render, unless they have barriers right up to the track as we see in Canada and Australia - which would make for a good circuit where mistakes are penalised.
Expect the Saudis to spend a *LOT* of money on the facility and the race, the government there is building an enormous tourist resort and this will be the centrepiece of it. The race will be advertised absolutely everywhere as they try and attract inbound tourism, something that wasn’t allowed expect for religious pilgrimages until last year.
They're using existing roads for almost the entire circuit - so they are where they are.. You can see there is a bit more space than initially obvious if you zoom in, but for sure at places it'll just have to be track>barrier wall. Which is actually fine, it can makes the cars look faster than an expanse of open space.
Are they transforming Jeddah in to a tourists resort? Or do you mean Qiddiya? That's where they're in theory moving to in a few years as a permanent circuit, also in the same area will be a huge amusement park, mall, golf etc.
StevieBee said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Expect the Saudis to spend a *LOT* of money on the facility and the race, the government there is building an enormous tourist resort and this will be the centrepiece of it. The race will be advertised absolutely everywhere as they try and attract inbound tourism, something that wasn’t allowed expect for religious pilgrimages until last year.
There is a quiet, positive revolution happening in Saudi... or at least trying to happen. Traditionalists are a dyeing breed and there's long been recognition that the country needs to start to prepare for a post-oil existence and align more with western norms.I've been to Jeddah couple of times and know where the circuit is being planned. It should be OK. Jeddah is a very cosmopolitan city, completely different to Riyadh. People are more western-orientated and western-influenced. It's a nice place and were it not for the lack of a beer, I'd be happy to spend a week there as a tourist. I'm told that there are moves to permit alcohol for tourists.
There's also a big car-culture there, unlike Azerbaijan.
Whilst I'd rather see more races at the sort of tracks we've seen this year, I wouldn't write this off as a pure money making exercise.
Another way to share and spread what we consider a better set of cultural practices is to export sports such as F1 in to such places. They're changing now more than ever as they increasingly are drawn in to aspects of western culture.
There is a good argument that places such as Saudi Arabia are a positive place for F1 to head to.
thole with some money to buy a race. And F1 loves money.Jasandjules said:
What a pity F1 appears to have no scruples after all. I wonder if WeRaceAsOne is just empty rhetoric
Why is western sport heading to places that don't uphold western standards a bad thing? If you don't send that influence over there, they have nothing to be influenced by.. Other than a 2000 year old fairytale.The entire region is changing incredibly fast. Each new adult generation takes a bigger step forward in liberalness than the last. It's good for cultures to mix and take from one another, even if at the starting point there are incompatibilities of opinion.
Deesee said:
50 million USD per annum, 15 yr agreement, oh and the state oil company is already a key partner/sponsor..
It would not surprise me if they also purchased a team in the next few seasons.
Maybe...It would not surprise me if they also purchased a team in the next few seasons.
One wonders how they justify such commitments to a sport that's planning to shift to fuel that doesn't use the crude oil they sell. Although clearly they somehow have decided it's worth doing.
Deesee said:
Anyway, Role on the 2022 Pyongyang GP...
If he paid F1 to go there it probably would A nuclear missile flyover at the race start followed by 100k fans in the stands that sit motionless and silent until their leader claims he mentally steered Lewis to victory and is subsequently applauded
vaud said:
Schermerhorn said:
Mexico - on the surface...looks nice. Stray into cartel land and there are headless corpses hanging off bridges or burning in oil drums.
Hence my earlier comment:In first world countries with an active death penalty (US, Japan, Bahrain, Singapore)
In places with appalling records on fair trials with 99% conviction rates (Japan)
Or high levels of corruption and drugs (Mexico, Brazil, etc)
Or countries with historic links to the slave trade and stripping assets from countries (UK, etc)
All depends where you draw you moral lines...
...if the race acts as further catalyst for change (and Saudi is slowly changing as they try to wean themselves off oil) then good.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This is all pointless anyway. Clearly they have certain practises we don't approve of over there. The more western culture they absorb via TV, movies, sport, politics etc the more each new generation starts to question the old ways.F1 should not avoid such places out of some silly desire not to be associated. Spread our culture if we're proud of it, and trust that it's inevitable that over time, other cultures will take from it.
Piginapoke said:
TheDeuce said:
Not right to go there? Why?
Because it's an implicit acceptance of a non elected regime with gross human rights abuses against its own population?Changes are already happening, mostly due to the internet and it's effect on how young people view the wider world. If they call for more from the west, be bold! Send it.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
And to my point, in fact histories point... the key is to mix and trade between cultures so they take from one another. Import a product or service and bit by bit you let some of the foreign culture in.It's not about which culture is best or correct. It's about looking beyond your own shores and new generations being allowed to get excited about what is out there, what can be bought back home and how that might in time change attitudes and what is (or isn't) considered acceptable.
Those that seek only to list what they disagree with in the middle east are at best limited in their thought process. It's just pointless virtue signalling to repeatedly say "I don't agree with XYZ". The useful thing to do is to look at what could influence those we think are not getting the best deal, and support it if it could be a positive influence. In the end the younger generation Saudi's that WILL be in power at some point will take from it what they choose to. I don't think there is anything bad about F1 rocking up in town with it's equality messages and women working on cars amongst men. They've invited the sport in, they know full well it's another western influence - yet they have chosen to go along with it. That's not bad in my view
Sandpit Steve said:
Imad said:
Well, I for one am glad as I will be there watching, being based in KSA.
Queueing myself up for a hard time on this forum I’m sure, but hey-ho. There is a lot wrong with Saudi for sure, but also a lot of good things and good people. It’s a very young country - I mean in population terms - and the majority are very hungry for change. Of the guys and girls I work with, about 30% have been through university in the US or UK with the rest through the system in KSA. There are intelligent ones who are incredibly motivated, and there are 9-5’ers who are there for a salary and that’s it. Those are probably the minority though. Some of them are infuriating, but most are thoroughly enjoyable to work with. Proud of their country and traditions, but also quick to laugh at themselves.
A lot has changed and improved in the last 3 years. Obvious things like female drivers, but much more less obvious in terms of legislation and social norms. Seeing boys and girls in cafes etc enjoying themselves, holding hands etc is not strange anymore. 3 years ago it would be unseen. There is a strong traditional element that would prefer not to change, but they are mostly the elders and this will erode over time. The countries that I have seen quicker change don’t tend to have happy endings. Syria / Iran? Given the size of the youth population, it is hopefully inevitable that the change continues.
Interestingly, it’s the girls that seem to be at the forefront of the social change - I get welcome hugs in the office from more female Saudi colleagues than male - in an open plan mixed office.
If you are used to the local populations in UAE etc, then don’t assume that the stereotypes are the same with regard to work ethic or socializing with expats etc.
Like I said at the start, there is a lot wrong as well, but we all know that, and it’s been well stated in above posts.
At the end of the day, I’m here because my salary is an absurd multiple of my Uk salary. If I can be part of a catalyst for change then even better. I have also awarded about £20m of consultancy fees to Uk companies over the last couple of years, as well as specifying Uk standards for equipment and construction - keeping the “empire” ticking over, so don’t give me too much of a hard time!
Well said. Queueing myself up for a hard time on this forum I’m sure, but hey-ho. There is a lot wrong with Saudi for sure, but also a lot of good things and good people. It’s a very young country - I mean in population terms - and the majority are very hungry for change. Of the guys and girls I work with, about 30% have been through university in the US or UK with the rest through the system in KSA. There are intelligent ones who are incredibly motivated, and there are 9-5’ers who are there for a salary and that’s it. Those are probably the minority though. Some of them are infuriating, but most are thoroughly enjoyable to work with. Proud of their country and traditions, but also quick to laugh at themselves.
A lot has changed and improved in the last 3 years. Obvious things like female drivers, but much more less obvious in terms of legislation and social norms. Seeing boys and girls in cafes etc enjoying themselves, holding hands etc is not strange anymore. 3 years ago it would be unseen. There is a strong traditional element that would prefer not to change, but they are mostly the elders and this will erode over time. The countries that I have seen quicker change don’t tend to have happy endings. Syria / Iran? Given the size of the youth population, it is hopefully inevitable that the change continues.
Interestingly, it’s the girls that seem to be at the forefront of the social change - I get welcome hugs in the office from more female Saudi colleagues than male - in an open plan mixed office.
If you are used to the local populations in UAE etc, then don’t assume that the stereotypes are the same with regard to work ethic or socializing with expats etc.
Like I said at the start, there is a lot wrong as well, but we all know that, and it’s been well stated in above posts.
At the end of the day, I’m here because my salary is an absurd multiple of my Uk salary. If I can be part of a catalyst for change then even better. I have also awarded about £20m of consultancy fees to Uk companies over the last couple of years, as well as specifying Uk standards for equipment and construction - keeping the “empire” ticking over, so don’t give me too much of a hard time!
Insh’Allah I’ll be there too, I’m based in Dubai so not too far to travel.
And in Jordan for another work trip years ago I was taught what a VPN did by a local lad that had taken to watching iPlayer
He's probably not going to grow up too bothered about stoning anyone if he's in part grown up with the wisdom that is Eastenders and Masterchef 
He also had the shrewdness to politely ask me if I thought his knowledge was worth 5 JD. I paid.. He had no issue with capitalism then!petop said:
Ive been to Saudi last year and i have a good friend who works for Aramco for a fair few years. I had some pre-conceptions before i flew out. But actually i was pretty much impressed....well part from the taxi journey from the airport to hotel i think they are starting their own F1 team early!!!!
Hotel was impressive, food was cheap and walking around late at night, safe as houses.
Aramco have their own "towns" which to be honest they plan them to match Western styles. In the many restaurants there were plenty of woman wearing Western style clothes and saw plenty driving. They realise they need to change which may not be the speed we would like but its not our country. They are though pushing for Saudisation but they are struggling because of lack of experience compared to typical expat worker.
That's the reality. They want to spend their mega money on being world class but that involves foreign engineering efforts along with endless other specialists. They have to open to the doors to established western hotel chains, restaurants, sports and amusement parks. They have to do that to be impressive (pretty damn important over there...) but in doing so the acceptance of overseas culture is unavoidable. This is why the hotels have public pools and cocktail bars - because the hotels obviously would rate very poorly if they did not. The global stage is real these days, and we all have to relax and find ways to accept different ideas on that stage.Hotel was impressive, food was cheap and walking around late at night, safe as houses.
Aramco have their own "towns" which to be honest they plan them to match Western styles. In the many restaurants there were plenty of woman wearing Western style clothes and saw plenty driving. They realise they need to change which may not be the speed we would like but its not our country. They are though pushing for Saudisation but they are struggling because of lack of experience compared to typical expat worker.
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