Red bull bending the rules
Discussion
Pebbles167 said:
To what are you referring, the bendy wing? If it's not illegal, it's fine, F1 teams always do this kind of stuff.
Yes. And it’s an Aero device so it must not move. Looks like they have found a way to cheat the test. The FIA can’t be happy as they have issued a technical directive and new tests. Along with time for ‘Teams’ to meet the new test.
carl_w said:
Except it has to move, as does everything on the car because it cannot be 100% rigid. Look at the front wings in slo-mo when they go over a kerb. The FIA has introduced a standard for "no movement" and RB's wing passes to that standard. If the FIA introduces another standard/test and the RB wing fails, that is a different matter.
Of course things cannot be 100% rigid. However the intent/spirt of the rule is to stop aero devices changing in shape to give a benefit in certain situations. Front wings bouncing around is hardly an aero benefit!! Hence no one, FIA included, is worried about it. As far as it being clever to design something that just passes the test. Was Ferrari clever for ‘apparently’ finding a way around the fuel flow/volume rule and checks? Not for me that’s cheating. As is designing something that intentionally breaks the intention behind a rule to gain advantage, but sneaks through the test criteria.
TheDeuce said:
The difference is one was cheating, the other was not. RB aren't breaking a defined rule. Ferrari were.
It's not about getting away with it.. in the end it's about hard fact - was it legal or not.
If the wing moves it breaks the rules, the rules are that black and white. It may meet the current test used to enforce the rule. But the rules also say the tests can be changed. It's not about getting away with it.. in the end it's about hard fact - was it legal or not.
marine boy said:
No aero structure can be made to be infinitely stiff, every aero structure flexes to some degree. If the rear wing is stiff enough to pass the FIA tests then RBR have done nothing wrong and in no way are cheating.
The rules are there to tell you what you can't do, not to tell you what you can do!
Not breaking any rules but causing the FIA to make a rule change is the ultimate endorsement of a job done well so I'd say they've done an excellent job, fair play and congratulations to everyone involved.
Causing a F1 rule change has only happened to me once, funnily enough with another version of a F1 bendy rear wing. Was a very satisfying feeling knowing we'd exploited a loop hole in the rules and added a good chunk of performance to the car.
Looking at the 1st video, think I know how RBR are doing what they are doing, very simple but very clever to get it working within the rules
But this isn’t about changing the rule. The rule is not going to change, just the method of testing to enforce it. The rules are there to tell you what you can't do, not to tell you what you can do!
Not breaking any rules but causing the FIA to make a rule change is the ultimate endorsement of a job done well so I'd say they've done an excellent job, fair play and congratulations to everyone involved.
Causing a F1 rule change has only happened to me once, funnily enough with another version of a F1 bendy rear wing. Was a very satisfying feeling knowing we'd exploited a loop hole in the rules and added a good chunk of performance to the car.
Looking at the 1st video, think I know how RBR are doing what they are doing, very simple but very clever to get it working within the rules
The part has been designed to move to reduce drag (breaking the rule) but designed, cleverly, not to be detected with the current test in place.
TheDeuce said:
If this bits true....
"The exact method of flex used by Red Bull is not currently clear but some rumours suggest that an element of the front wing was mounted on a rubber clad leaf spring allowing the element to flex downwards at high speed and thus reducing drag."
Then fair enough quite frankly! I've argued material flex is fair play so long as it passes the test, but that doesn't extend to composite assemblies with rubber parts.. c'mon Horner, get real
Also it would mean that for the second time in the last couple of years a team took the battle to Merc via cheating and still couldn't get it done even before the cheat was uncovered..
I think that front wing article is a few years old!"The exact method of flex used by Red Bull is not currently clear but some rumours suggest that an element of the front wing was mounted on a rubber clad leaf spring allowing the element to flex downwards at high speed and thus reducing drag."
Then fair enough quite frankly! I've argued material flex is fair play so long as it passes the test, but that doesn't extend to composite assemblies with rubber parts.. c'mon Horner, get real
Also it would mean that for the second time in the last couple of years a team took the battle to Merc via cheating and still couldn't get it done even before the cheat was uncovered..
Wolf suggesting they may have to ‘soften’ their wing for Baku if the new tests don’t come in before the race
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff-f1-messy-...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff-f1-messy-...
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