The Triple Crown??

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Getting a bit tired of talking about who is `elite` or who is going to push who off in the next 2 GP`s. Better to discuss who we have really enjoyed over the decades & also answer this question.
The Americans seem to think the Triple Crown is any driver who has won the Indy 500, Le Mans & the Monaco Grand Prix. Seems fair ,all special races.

But,, I always thought it was any driver who won the Indy 500, Le Mans and the WDC. so who is right ??

Either way , Graham Hill is the only one who ticks all the boxes either way you look at it, 5 Monaco wins, 2 WDC, 1 Indy 500 ,1 Le Mans 24 Hours.

Few are close to this feat , only Alonso recently who has had it in mind, but found it tougher than he thought.

J. Villeneuve had a crack at the 24 hours ,last in 2008 & came 2nd, close, but no cigar. (no Monaco win for him though)

Will any other driver ever get close equalling Hills record,? I think many WDC champs look down their nose at Indy a little and decide to rest on their not inconsiderable pot/laurels,

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Carlososos said:

It doesn’t mean as much anymore or possibly it means more I’m not sure. What I mean is each driving series is so efficiently run and raced that for a outsider to get close is nearly impossible.

Alonso is desperate to be a true great a proper hero great. Desperate! That why he has such hatred of Vettel and Ham. They should be his championships.

I think you do Alonso a disservice , this supposed anger or hatred he has is just media bullst.

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thegreenhell said:

The only man to have achieved it so far said it included the WDC and not Monaco, and as it has no official definition or recognition it's hard to argue otherwise.

Logically it might make more sense with Monaco, as then it's three individual races, not two races and a championship.

An alternative hardman triple crown would be the F1 WDC, WEC and Indycar series titles.

Agreed, anyone done that ?

But is anyone ever likely to equal Hills record ? still think he was one of the greats but few recognize it now.

Edited by hot metal on Thursday 25th November 18:50

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CoolHands said:

It just sounds like made-up nonsense.

Oh its real enough, why did Alonso bust a gut to try & win Indy, Andretti tried for Le Mans late in his career, trying to tick that final box, I am sure it was on Villeneuve`s mind at LM in 2008 when his star was waning & he was openly ridiculed for his F1 career failing in such a miserable fashion.

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Mansell never won the Indy 500, 3rd was best place I think, he had a go at Le Mans partnering his 2 sons in 2010, only lasted 4 laps ,not sure how serious this attempt was. LM is not part of the WEC anyway, a stand alone event.
Wiki says the Triple Crown of Motorsport is Indy 500, Le Mans & Monaco GP, maybe an American wrote it. Hill & Jacques Villeneuve maintained it was the WDC that counted & not Monaco, of course Villeneuve would say this as he was always hopeless at Monaco.

Either way, it would take an F1 driver of some note to achieve it now, A J Foyt had 2 of the 3 but he was never going to complete the set to save his life.

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I, suppose, they are 3 of the oldest standing races if not the 3 oldest & toughest.

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MontyPythonX said:

Just to muddy the water more...would it be an outright win at Le Mans, or would a class win suffice?

Just out right I believe, few remember class wins sadly.

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thegreenhell said:

My dream team for Le Mans would have Mansell, Montoya and Villeneuve in the same car. When they win together they can argue amongst themselves about which one of them has just won the Triple Crown.

,I think Montoya`s lack of WDC would take the shine off it, but as there are no official rules just glory and recognition. The Americans look to Indy 500, Daytona 500 & Daytona 24hrs, of course, they would, and plenty have done those 3.
I thought Montoya was going to take the title at one point, 2004 I think, then some tyre regs changed mid season which handed the advantage back to Ferrari, shame, I missed JPM when he was gone, not scared of Michael ,got pee`d off with officialdom I believe.

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I think the point is, after all, a decent F1 driver can do Le Mans then nip over the pond for a reasonable shot at Indy, don`t see it happening the other way around, might get proven wrong but it has been nearly 50 years and no one has matched it.

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About as muddy as the waters get

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Don`t think Moss liked Le Mans either. Probably others too, a kind of failed F1 driver refuge now , not that that means much .

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coppice said:

Said as if all that mattered were F1 ... There's much more to motorsport than one Formula, especially as its grid is small , its cost so absurd and its driver turnover so low that the likes of Raikkonen and Alonso were able to become almost permanent fixtures. .

I think you mis-understood me ...

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coppice said:

Quite - it may be 'made up' but the original definition is perfectly clear and should remain , at least for those who don't regard history as bunk (as the founder of the firm which made Hill's Indy 500 engine thought )

Isn`t everything made up ?

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pablo said:

I’d question the relevance of Monaco these days, in a Lotus 49 it was a different circuit, now it’s too narrow and won in qualifying. Both Panis and Trulli won it…

Practically all they won,,,

Formula one is bigger , longer season & more valuable now than ever, drivers still skip out to do other races , Alonso, Hulkenberg, but the contracts of many probably don`t allow it, or they have no interest, will probably never happen again.

Will Lewis look at other forms of motorsport when he quits F1 ? I sort of doubt it, unless he thinks its fun. Will probably concentrate on the E side of thing or promoting diversity in motorsport..

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thegreenhell said:

When did the concept of the Triple Crown first appear? Was it talked about before Hill achieved it, or only after it was done? It certainly hasn't been around 'forever' (forever in motorsport terms, not overall history, obviously) as those events included weren't especially unique or lauded as the Blue Ribband events until some time after each became established. There was even a few years in the 1950s when the Monaco race was just a minor sports car race, and not even part of the World Championship, so it wasn't part of any Triple Crown then, and in F1 it wasn't even called the Monaco GP or GP de Monaco until 1966. Prior to that it was the GP d'Europe.

I would guess that it originated when the Brits started going to Indy in the 1960s, as there was almost no crossover between European and American racing before then, and the few American drivers who had made it to Europe had come from a sportscar background rather than Indycar.

I agree, some motoring journalist picked up on it after Hill`s 24 hour win in 1972, looking for an angle obviously. It was worthy of note and I imagine it was much debated at the time. Many references to Hill will always touch on it as it made him a standout driver, nobody else has done it. Good on you Graham.

But sometimes it is mentioned where other drivers come close, J Villenueve ( WDC not Monaco) Alonso ,(he is aware of it & considers it an honour) & Mario, Indy, WDC, class win at Le Mans (2nd)(no Monaco, think he was only there 5 or 6 times)
Mario`s record is under appreciated here, like Hill, largely ignored when it comes to the greats but his achievements are outstanding.