RE: PH Carpool: Chevrolet Camaro Z28
Wednesday 23rd November 2011
Name: Matt Fullwood (300bhp/ton)
Car: 1999 Camaro z28
Owned since: Sep 2005
Previously owned: The Camaro was a direct replacement for my 1982 XJ-S 5.3 V12 HE. But I'd also owned a 200SX Turbo S13, MGB GT, a couple of MGF's, a Tdi Defender 90, modded Disco 200Tdi and at the time had a V8-powered TR7 which I still own today, although in 2005 it was laid up with a broken axle.
Why I bought it
In short I wanted something fast! And in 2005 I believe I couldn't have bought anything any faster for the money that offered the same blend of age, reliability, running costs, practicality and rareness.
What I wish I'd known
Nothing really, I'd been researching them for some time prior to purchase, so nothing has been a surprise.
I love how it attracts positive attention most places you go and how everyone has to look over whenever you start it or throw a rev.
Where I've been
I like to use the car whenever possible. So not only has it visited Santa Pod, but it's been camping to Devon and touring in the Lake District. If any of you here know what the Hardknott Pass is like, by the way, imagine it on a -2C November day with deserted roads in a powerful Rwd muscle car!
So while change is appealing, I think it's really a keeper long-term. The new Camaro doesn't really do it for me and a new Mustang or an Evora is way over my budget.
PH Carpool: Chevrolet Camaro Z28
5.7 litres of Dee-troyt muscle? It's hard to argue with the appeal of that
Name: Matt Fullwood (300bhp/ton)
Car: 1999 Camaro z28
Owned since: Sep 2005
Previously owned: The Camaro was a direct replacement for my 1982 XJ-S 5.3 V12 HE. But I'd also owned a 200SX Turbo S13, MGB GT, a couple of MGF's, a Tdi Defender 90, modded Disco 200Tdi and at the time had a V8-powered TR7 which I still own today, although in 2005 it was laid up with a broken axle.
In short I wanted something fast! And in 2005 I believe I couldn't have bought anything any faster for the money that offered the same blend of age, reliability, running costs, practicality and rareness.
My love of American pony cars started with the black 1977 Trans Am SE as featured in the film Smokey and the Bandit. This is the car that started it for me and got me hooked. I've been a fan of this genre of car ever since.
Whatever I bought had to be a V8 and preferably a Chevy LS1, which created a rather concise shortlist.
So the fourth-generation F-body, being a 1560kg, svelte-looking coupe with plastic composite panels for (weight reduction), double-A arm front suspension and an all-alloy 5.7-litre motor kicking out 350hp, seemed to me at least, a highly logical choice.
Nothing really, I'd been researching them for some time prior to purchase, so nothing has been a surprise.
Things I love
The controversy it causes on PistonHeads maybe...?
But in truth it's that American soundtrack coupled to a capable and fun chassis and the speed the thing can move at.
I love that almost nobody in the UK knows what it is, and even when you tell them it's a Camaro, most seem none the wiser.
I also like the look of it and love the fact I can remove the roof while maintaining a coupe profile.
Things I hate
Never really loved the colour, but I can live with it. Oh, and not getting to use it as much as I'd ideally like!
Costs
£2.27 for a broken hazard warning switch, but apart from some oil and filters and tyres, nothing at all. Not bad for six years-worth of V8 motoring.
A full set of discs and pads cost £353 plus nothing for me to fit them, and a stainless SLP Loudmouth exhaust cost £250 so now it sounds like a muscle car!
I like to use the car whenever possible. So not only has it visited Santa Pod, but it's been camping to Devon and touring in the Lake District. If any of you here know what the Hardknott Pass is like, by the way, imagine it on a -2C November day with deserted roads in a powerful Rwd muscle car!
Every year the car will attend local car shows, the biggest being Classics on the Common in Harpenden where around 1200-1500 cars are displayed. It's a hugely fun event where the car received very positive comments as it burbled its way into the display area.
What next?
Sometimes I think I could swap it for something else, such as a 2003/4 supercharged Mustang Cobra, as this would give me a manual transmission and a car with badass looks and an easy 500+hp potential. But I think I'd miss the glass removable roof and that noise that only an OHV pushrod V8 can make.
So, what next? Well I reckon it'll be a loan to basically overhaul and improve the Camaro, replacing all bushes and ball joints. Uprating the suspension and the brakes, new 17" Torque Trust II alloys shod with sticky 275-section rubber, 3500rpm Yank Converter, long-tube headers and a 125 shot of nitrous. I would be aiming for 400bhp n/a and over 500bhp on the gas with handling and stopping power to match.
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Discussion
Dagnut said:
Motorrad said:
Tonberry said:
Which they won't.
Seems like we have a forum full of cowards hiding behind anonymity these days.
EFA Seems like we have a forum full of cowards hiding behind anonymity these days.
Get down off your moral high horse, this is the internet you put up a picture of yourself you're open to ridicule... especially if your someone who has spent 4 years on a forum getting involved in every thread possible and slatting people..I'm sure he's a big boy and well able to take it.
Camaro91 said:
I'll save everyone a lot of time here:
Leaf springs, live axle, low power/litre, sloppy handling, poor panel fit, poor interior plastics, fat Americans, thirsty, vulgar, hard to sell, unreliable and so on and so forth.
That's the usual cliches out of the way.
I like it 300!
Not that surprising considering your username tbh!Leaf springs, live axle, low power/litre, sloppy handling, poor panel fit, poor interior plastics, fat Americans, thirsty, vulgar, hard to sell, unreliable and so on and so forth.
That's the usual cliches out of the way.
I like it 300!
yonex said:
All that bile and vitriol comes from 'that'.....
Should have known!
When I was looking into buying a 4x4, 300bhp/ton took the time to email me with some very useful info - something which I didn't ask him to do, and which probably took half an hour of his day to put together. Followed up by subsequent detailed emails answering my numpty questions. Should have known!So as for the "bile and vitriol" you speak of, he's a very knowledgeable and helpful PH'er.
PSBuckshot said:
Okay after a days thinking... I really like this car.
Its a muscle car, hard to hate it really isn't it?
I'd personally go for an old shape CLK55 over a Camaro, they both make 350bhp so I'd imagine they'd be pretty similar in the performance stakes. The Camaro is a bargain but I really think the styling for yank cars in the 90s wasn't great. Its a muscle car, hard to hate it really isn't it?
St John Smythe said:
I'd personally go for an old shape CLK55 over a Camaro, they both make 350bhp so I'd imagine they'd be pretty similar in the performance stakes. The Camaro is a bargain but I really think the styling for yank cars in the 90s wasn't great.
I suspect the Camaro might be a tad cheaper to run overall yonex said:
St John Smythe said:
I'd personally go for an old shape CLK55 over a Camaro, they both make 350bhp so I'd imagine they'd be pretty similar in the performance stakes. The Camaro is a bargain but I really think the styling for yank cars in the 90s wasn't great.
I suspect the Camaro might be a tad cheaper to run overall chevy-stu said:
300bhp/ton said:
LuS1fer said:
No, I believe that was their actual claim at the time and a European expert on these cars said it was due to the exhaust restriction (effectively the large rear silencer single outlet V6 version), a slightly more restricted airbox (remedied by cutting part of the plastic away under the filter whereupon you see why they did it as the air filter quickly gets filthy in winter conditions) and the ECU had a slightly different tune. However, reinstate the original bits and the ECU makes the necessary adjustments.
Indeed I have heard this before.The only thing I'd say to counter it, is the 288bhp figure isn't quoted by all sources.
And with regards to the exhaust, mine had 2 cats and and a standard twin outlet exhaust on it when I bought it. I've seen other Euro's like this as well, although I have seen on or two 98 models with a single exhaust, alla V6 style. Although I admit I don't know if it had 4 cats or not.
I guess this might be one of those mysteries that will always have conflicting info surrounding it.
The 288 bhp rating is pretty spot on as my friend's (Pezz on PH) Euro spec 99' Z28 made flywheel 286bhp last year (at Surrey Rolling Road, Dyno Dynamics set-up) and was totally standard at the time..
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
I'm a bit confused. So the US spec cars make 350bhp and the Euro spec makes 288bhp?
I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I'm sure the Euro may have made less in stock trim, but it is well documented that they US ones make similar/same HP as the Corvette.I guess the only thing is... if it'll do 13 sec 1/4's and trap 104mph+ with only 288hp, image what it'll do with the Euro restrictions removed.
yabadaba said:
chevy-stu said:
There probably aren't many standard Euro spec cars around any more, as the V6 rear box is well documented as a power sucker on the V8 cars, so most will have changed them now..
The 288 bhp rating is pretty spot on as my friend's (Pezz on PH) Euro spec 99' Z28 made flywheel 286bhp last year (at Surrey Rolling Road, Dyno Dynamics set-up) and was totally standard at the time..
Stu, you must mean 286 at the rear wheels, not flywheel, as the (estimated) flywheel figure would be considerably higher. By the way, the dyno figures you see quoted from US sources will nearly always be rwhp too as they rarely refer to flywheel numbers. Regarding the 4th gen LS1 Camaro's, I believe the 01's and 02's made slightly more power stock as a result of using the LS6 intake manifold. My 01 made 298.3hp (at the rear wheels) at Surrey Rolling Road when it was stock, before I added LT's.The 288 bhp rating is pretty spot on as my friend's (Pezz on PH) Euro spec 99' Z28 made flywheel 286bhp last year (at Surrey Rolling Road, Dyno Dynamics set-up) and was totally standard at the time..
A general point to note here is that you can only really rely on quoted dyno numbers to get a ball-park idea of power output as different types of machine will read higher or lower and even if you stick to the same make/model you will still see differences that are not attributable to the car itself unless you visit the same place every time and their machine is kept closely calibrated. After having my headers installed I got a tune and then a dyno on another, but different, dyno dynamics machine and it made 370rwhp (450hp flywheel estimate) and there is no way that headers and a tune really gave me an additional 70rwhp!!
LuS1fer said:
The point of the article was merely to demonstrate that the claimed flywheel output did not translate into rear wheel output and the reality was that both engines made much the same power.
Manufacturers always quote flywheel hp as it takes out all the variables involved in transmission losses and can be accurately measured on a bench and sounds better in the advertising - except in the case of the 4th gen which has a younger target audience and where GM not only wanted to distance it from the Corvette but persuade insurers that it wasn't too powerful to insure (arbitrary with over 300hp I know...)
You have had both a Camaro and C5 yes? How would you rate them back to back as although the vette commands a premium I prefer the looks and I dont think I could live with an auto.Manufacturers always quote flywheel hp as it takes out all the variables involved in transmission losses and can be accurately measured on a bench and sounds better in the advertising - except in the case of the 4th gen which has a younger target audience and where GM not only wanted to distance it from the Corvette but persuade insurers that it wasn't too powerful to insure (arbitrary with over 300hp I know...)
jbi said:
ukzz4iroc said:
LuS1fer said:
An M3 is not as fast (I know from demonstrating that fact ) though it would be close and I suspect the insurance and servicing on the Z28, as demonstrated by 300 and myself, is very low indeed. One of the cheapest cars I ever ran TBH.
Sorry but an M3 is a far more serious proposition. M3's aren't all about speed. The Beemer has the LS1 licked in every other department apart from running costs. ) though it would be close and I suspect the insurance and servicing on the Z28, as demonstrated by 300 and myself, is very low indeed. One of the cheapest cars I ever ran TBH.It is also available in RHD.
The camaro is simply more enthusiast friendly.
ukzz4iroc said:
Sorry but an M3 is a far more serious proposition. M3's aren't all about speed. The Beemer has the LS1 licked in every other department apart from running costs.
It is also available in RHD.
I dont know.It is also available in RHD.
That 'cammed' Camaro has a sound that is more than a match for any M Sport car. Not sure about the handling but if you can get hold of one for say £7K then throw a couple of grand at both suspension and engine I doubt you would be unhappy?
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
They both have their plus points. I suppose it depends what you want the car for. I imagine the M3 is more of a driver's car due to the fact you have to drive one at 9/10s to really extract the performance. The Camaro is more instant grunt, lazy power. If you are going anywhere near a track though, M3 all day!
The LS1 might offer huge low end grunt, but it's by no means a lazy engine. It revs cleanly to it's red line just shy of 6000rpm. Swap in a different cam and it'll be even more rev happy.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff