Nissan Pulsar GTIR vs Subaru Impreza WRX

[Baryonyx]

Okay, so this is the conundrum I'm faced with at the moment. Similar prices, similar distances to travel, similar cost to insure.

In favour of the Nissan:

• old school rally vibe
• ATTESA 4WD system
• Well cared for by the owner who has replaced a lot of engine parts

agains the Nissan:

• Difficult to work on, or find someone who can work on it?
• Difficult to find parts for it if something breaks?

For the Subaru:

• Recently had a full service
• Full service history
• ten years younger than the Nissan
• Possibly more reliable?

Which one should I go for? I keep deciding on one and then changing my mind ten minutes later!

I would be looking to buy this week or next, and I'll use the car as my day to day car but it will probably not do that many miles a year. Which one is for me?

The firey Nissan?



Or the sleek Scooby?

[Baryonyx]

y2blade said:

you seem to have missed out the "Against the Subaru" bit ????

There isn't really much against the Subaru, but I'll try:

• Probably slower in a straight line
• More to tax
• My dad already has one, so they're not much 'new' for me to look at.

I told you I didn't have much of an 'against' case! However, the Pulsar is a lot easier for me to get to, but I just can't decide. And I need to, as it looks as though I'll soon be selling my MR2...

[Baryonyx]

wackojacko said:

the steering suddenly weights up but wasn't consistant in doing so which was a little un nerving and IMO they just look so dated now.

The handling issue is a pretty big deal for me. I love the linearity of the Subaru handling. I've driven my dad's Impreza before (on an early morning airport run when I went to Cyprus, good times). That feeling of supreme stability and control is insurmountable. As I've mentioned, I don't take my cars on track, they are exclusively for fast road use and I am looking for a car inspires confidence in the handling. As much as I love my MR2 Turbo for the myriad joys it delivers, I feel as though I spend a lot of my processing power on monitoring feedback from the car and keeping it tidy. Imprezas just feel rock solid all the way through, utterly connected to the road and almost 'safe', but in a way that will let me improve my drive as I can get my view further up and spend more time looking at hazards. To think of the GTi-R having some funny steering traits is a little disappointing.


The one I'm looking has an engine that has many of the common items replaced. It's the standard sort of list you'd expect to see from a 20 year old performance car. New fuel pump, new turbo, new plugs, etc etc. I'm sure it's pretty stable, as the seller seems a genuine sort and he is not running wild boost due to the stock internals on the engine, though he reckons it's close to 300bhp (never been dyno'ed). There is a small amount of rust on a rear arch, something I could have attended to immediately. What worries me more is the transmission components having had a hard life and being hard to replace. As I have mentioned, I intend for the car to be used day to day for getting me to work and back, and I can't really be leaving the car at home just because a diff has thrown a fit (similarly, I've used my MR2 Turbo as a commuting car...that is a way to turn a dull drive to work into a bloody hoot! Never will I own a dull commuter!).


At the moment, I'm still undecided on the car. The WRX has a strong 'for' case, as they're common, comfortable, reliable, fun and plenty fast. The Nissan is also attractive because it's rare, looks wild, is very fast and has the appeal of a 90's Nissan.

Despite the power deficit of the WRX, that almost seems appealing. I will miss the lurid overtaking grunt of the MR2 Turbo, no doubt, but it should be rewarded with massive mid-corner confidence. I'm sure the WRX will have plenty of punch to overtake, as my Volvo S60 2.0L Turbo with 180bhp was fast enough on a well planned overtake to fire off some short rangers, and even see off a few of the knobs who floor it when you're passing. As far as I can see, my TED (time exposed to danger) time should still be kept short.


Many will ask why I'm not looking at the STi models. Simply, I think the WRX is better for getting more time with FFTF (foot flat to floor). It's far less powerful, so I should be able to work it harder in the speed limits. I've driven GX Imprezas before that almost feel quick enough for me day to day, but my addiction to turbos sees me right on this one!

thanks for all the replies by the way!

[Baryonyx]

mjb1 said:

Have you not considered a Celica GT4? Lots in common with your MR2 turbo, except it has planted 4wd and just about usable rear seats. They are practically bomb proof in standard form, should certainly be more reliable than either a GTiR or a scooby. They are getting a bit long in the tooth, so finding a really good one might not be that easy.

I wouldn't consider a GTiR for a daily driver, a weekend toy maybe. On that basis, out of the two you're suggesting I'd have to go with the Subaru.

Funnily enough I considered the GT4 ST205 at the time I was buying the MR2 Turbo! I couldn't find a great Celica locally, so I decided to look around and see what the best MR2 Turbo in the country was. I had long felt the allure of the early 90's supercar setup of a mid engine with a big turbo strapped to it and I found it in scaled down form when the best MR2 was just a short drive from my door. Hence why I ended up with it!

I would consider the Celica, though I hear it feels a bit dated next to Imprezas and Evos of the day, never mind the WRX or indeed an STi, or someone of the firebreathing Evos I've driven! I will look again, though I am looking for something new. The Celica also has the pricey figure 8 suspension that is costly to maintain. But thanks for bringing that suggestion to the thread, it's been a while since I perused those cars!

[Baryonyx]

It should be noted I'm thinking of a WRX at the moment, maybe with a couple of Prodrive upgrades. I have considered the STi and it's just too powerful for UK roads. Whilst the MR2 Turbo is fking quick, it balances this with a challenging mid-engined RWD setup, so the ability to travel at outrageous speeds is tempered by the need to keep the car controlled as you go along. The STi with it's stable, AWD system would just find it too easy to go fast, indeed I suspect you'd really need to push the car to get the enjoyment from it. I don't want to be backing off the throttle every couple of seconds because I'm at the speed limit!

It's the same reason I've turned away from the later Lancer Evolutions. As awesome as they are, I don't think they're challenged in the slightest by our roads and beg to be driven faster than you should be driving them. With the WRX I can concentrate on the handling, on setting myself up right for corners and getting my lines right, and on maintaining my momentum.

On the other hand, the GTiR has this compelling video in it's favour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWgh-DRklwM

[Baryonyx]

b18c4thom said:

Of the two I would personally say Subaru. Unfortunately they a both a bit 'chavvy' but the pulsar far more so than the subaru. I apologise in advance as I have only skim read the thread but what is your budget? do any evo's fall into your budget or even r32/33 skylines? recently fitted coilovers, hicas lockout bars, camber arms and traction bars to a 33 and all the nuts and bolts came out far easier than those of hondas half its age I normally work on, and from what I could tell they hadn't been touched since it rolled off the factory floor. They are very well built and reasonably priced although you do suffer both 'jap tax' and 'skyline tax'

Yes, these cars are undoubtedly 'chavvy'. But then, I doubt most people see me in my white MR2 Turbo and think 'Japanese car ethusiast'. The image of these cars is unimportant to me, I'm just concerned with finding the best car for my drive.

As for my budget? I don't have a budget as such, though I'm really wanting to keep a spend on the car under £4000 as the insurance for the GTI-R and the Impreza is pretty hefty at twice the renewal for my MR2 Turbo! I've looked at Skylines in the past and they're not really for me right now. Most are either massively modded, and a 500bhp Skyline is not really the sort of thing I'm looking for when I consider a supple, controllably chassis and a power level that allows for plenty of FFTF time! I'd rather have an unmodded example, or as close to the factory standard as possible, and then we're talking Sierra Cosworth money!

Similarly with Evos, I've considered these but priced them out in terms of cost. They have never struck me as massively better than Imprezas, though I do prefer their looks. What I'm not so wild about is the AYC servicing (though this is really an issue of time rather than money) and the shorter service intervals. Evos are also a bit stiffer again on insurance. Having had my time driving both Scoobies and Evos, I love them both, but I think the WRX is the better day to day car.

I've also looked back through the Celica GT4's and the selection on sale now is pretty crap compared to what there was in when I looked last year. They also look a lot like my MR2 in many ways, and the engine is the same. As much as I love many things about my MR2, I am a sucker for new toys and I'd love to have the flat four rumble of a Subaru Boxer or the grunt of a Nissan engine under my right foot.

[Baryonyx]

icepop said:

Sorry, but are you serious in your comment, re the STI being too powerfull !!!!!

You have a right foot, on the accelerator, and that's what dictates what the car does. The STI is NOT too powerfull on the road. I had 3 Imprezas over 6 years, and they are pussycats. I'd suggest you do not get a shorter wheelbase 280 bhp car, if that's the case.

I am of course being serious. Please don't think I'm slagging off the STi, I am simply considering it a bit powerful for our roads. I want something I can drive hard, and get my foot flat to the floor in. I want something I can really work. An STi or Evo delivering effortless power just doesn't quite fit with that. I know the GTi-R will deliver effortless power and likely want to whizz past our speed limits but I like it becuause of the novelty value.

I am looking for something that will allow me to deliver my best possible drive at a reasonable pace. As long as the WRX has punch for overtaking then I'm happy, as I say, I found my S60 more than capable of slotting in decisive overtakes when they're on. After all, I did a driving course where I witnessed a man make a diesel Focus look like a race car compared to everything else on the road, simply because of his mastery of it (it was quite frankly 'something else' as far as passenger rides go, as wild as that may sound). If I could attain half that level of profficiency in a WRX I'd be a happy boy!

[Baryonyx]

icepop said:

You've had an MR2 Turbo, what are you on about !!!!! The couple I've known had 250/260 bhp, from a mid engined RWD light car. Certainly far more of a handfull, than an STI, or an EVO.

First time I've done this, normally happens to me, but TROLL ALERT !!!!!!

I bid you goodnight.

You are qutie right. The MR2 Turbo has delivered ten fold what I paid out in terms of incredible overtaking punch and the ability to make other cars look silly. Why, just tonight I despatched a colleague's Cooper S with the disdain one would usually reserve for scraping dogst off their shoe.

An STi or an Evo is quite different to the MR2 Turbo, just as devastatingly quick but with the ability to drop that power much more the time. The MR2 needs to the right road, the right surface and the right weather conditions to really fly, and even then I've mentioned that a large part of my concentration is focused on the car itself rather than everything else (spending your pound, as I once heard a bloke call it).

Can you see that I want a car that is able to get it's power down more and inspire more confidence when cornering? As much as I enjoyed flying about in an outrageously powerful Evo 8, I almost felt that I enjoyed my MX5 more driving home as I was able to rev the nuts off it on the road and really wring it's neck. Consequently, I don't think I've spent that much time driving the MR2 flat out. It's more 'squeeze power on, pass obstacle, balance throttle through corner, squeeze off again'. A big draw for the WRX for me is that it's feels like an evolved Sierra Cosworth in a way. I came very close to buying a Cossie last year before reconsidering. The WRX offers what I wanted from the Cossie (4WD, circa 220bhp, turbo power delivery - though I will admit the Scobby is nowhere near as cool), without the great risks like theft and rust!

As I say, I am looking for a 4WD car that I can really enjoy. If power and speed were my main concern I'd just keep the MR2 as you'll not go faster for less! I don't want to get too caught up in which firebreathing Jap rally rep I should be buying, my shortlist is a WRX or a GTi-R, though I do appreciate and consider all suggestions for 4WD cars here.

[Baryonyx]

crocodile tears said:

get something you can absolutely rape the nuts off then like a 106 rallye

I've always liked the rallye series. In truth, I spend a lot of time looking at Bianca white 106 Rallyes, dreaming of chucking them down B roads! But I don't think I could live without the other amenities; the worst thing about my MX5 was getting into it on a really hot day and having hot air blowing in my face from the blower on the coldest setting with no A/C!

Plus, if I started considering FWD cars I'd have a whole load more to confuse my brain. Like an Integra! But 4WD really is my favourite way of driving the wheels. So it has to be 4WD for me!

[Baryonyx]

nottyash said:

You make no sense whatsoever
So an STI is too powerful for the UK roads???
You may put Prodrive upgrades on a normal WRX??? surely it will then be the same power as an STI???
The bit about driving the MR2 at outrageous speed is quite alarming on the public road. They are reknown for having crap handling. Before you start Ive had them
I think you should get a Citroen Saxo

Edited by nottyash on Wednesday 8th February 08:14

The only Prodrive stuff I'd source for a WRX would be things like the spoiler. I wouldn't be looking for any engine tuning. Ideally with the Pulsar, it seems to have a boost controller so I'm wondering if I could wind the boost down a bit to some 250bhp for a more progressive drive.

My point about the MR2 is that whilst it's 240bhp will quickly push it far beyond the speed limit, your ability to do this on a public road is temepered by the fact it's mid-engined, which forces you to cut back on your speed to make those corners safely. For me, thats a good thing, as I've no desire to speed. I'll admit, the mk2 MR2 handling isn't going to trouble a Lotus Elise for purity and feedback. I've heard though that many mk2 MR2's understeer quite a lot, something that was dialled in to make them more benign on the roads. Mine doesn't tend to understeer, it tends towards a very neutral handling characteristic but like any mid-engined car it will flick into oversteer pretty quickly when it wants to. It tidies up much faster than my MX5 did though, the handling feels a lot sharper.



As for getting a Sazo, I've been there and done that with a stint (admittedly short lived) in a VTR. Before that I had a mk5 Fiesta Zetec S that was a far superior car. If I were going back there again I'd look for a 106 GTI or Rallye now. As I've mentioned though, when I was looking at the start of last year there seemed to be loads of rallyes around, and I skipped over them thinking 'nah, couldn't live without the aircon'. Looking now, there seem to be very, very few for sale at all. Generally I think I could live with a 106 Rallye. My commute involves suburban to urban roads on the way to work and A and B roads on the way back. I very rarely go for long slogs down dual carriageways, so I expect I could live with the rattly little Rallye.

Shame there are no good ones for sale!

Again, thanks for the responses.

[Baryonyx]

RobCrezz said:

I think you will be surprised how much slower a 220bhp WRX will be vs your 245bhp MR2. Its heavier and higher transmission losses also. I know you want more foot flat to the floor time, but after the MR2 you might even find the drive of the WRX a little boring?

Ive found more power in the rally reps actually keeps things entertaining, although im at a modest 375bhp (300atw) which feels just about perfect for a road car.

Well Rob, I did recently drive a WRX on a '57 plate that felt quite 'inert'. It was the 2.5L model so a bit different to what I'm looking at. I know that I'll be trading off straight line speed from the MR2, as well as that heady sensation of speed that is generated by the low seating position of the MR2. But the trade off I am looking for is grip. As I mentioned earlier, my Volvo S60 was quick enough for most situations, and I expect the WRX will provide a little more grunt again, even factoring in transmission losses, as it is lighter. Really I just want something that grips and grips through the corners. I remember my first time driving a GX and being blown away by the indefatigable grip.

Really, I think it just comes down to me liking 4WD and FWD more than RWD, at least on the roads. I'm also notorious for liking new toys, so there is every chance I would keep the WRX for a while and move on to something else.


I am still giving serious consideration to the Pulsar, it's very tough to make my mind up!

[Baryonyx]

nottyash said:

Barryonyx just remomber the later March 2006 WRX is a whopping £460 tax a year
Shame as they are a nice car.

I'm looking at earlier cars, early millenium kind of cars. I may still get stung on tax, however...

Just been looking through your garage too, you've had some great cars over the years!

[Baryonyx]

I should note those pictures are for display purposes only, they're just images grabbed from google.