RE: VW confirms XL1 production

RE: VW confirms XL1 production

Thursday 21st February 2013

VW confirms XL1 production

Groundbreaking two-seater will be the world's most fuel-efficient production car



Volkswagen has confirmed that its mad hyper-economy XL1 coupe will go into production.

Aerodynamics are key. Looks cool, though
Aerodynamics are key. Looks cool, though
The two-seater was first previewed by Dr Ferdinand Piech way back in April 2002 at a VW shareholders’ meeting as the 1L, so named for its capacity to achieve fuel economy levels below 1l/100km (or above 282mpg, in real money). Since then, the 1L been transformed into the more production-friendly XL1, which loses the concept’s bubble roof to a more conventional coupe roofline, but retains the tapered profile and near-fully-enclosed rear wheels – as well, of course, as the remarkable fuel consumption.

Today, VW has announced that you’ll be able to buy your own XL1. And while we’ll admit this little car doesn’t fit entirely with the PH ‘Speed Matters’ maxim, it is nevertheless a stupendously clever car, and worthy of our attention as such. It’ll be a plug-in hybrid, driven by a two-cylinder turbodiesel that’ll produce 48hp, as well as a 27hp electric motor, both of which will be allied to a seven-speed DSG gearbox. Super-smooth aerodynamics will result in a drag coefficient of just 0.189, and combined with low weight (795kg) and height (just 1.2 metres), they’ll contribute to a staggering 314mpg fuel economy figure. Enough, in other words, to get you from Land’s End to John O’Groats on around £17-worth of fuel.

Standard-ish cabin makes XL1 usable
Standard-ish cabin makes XL1 usable
You won’t have to travel too slowly while you’re getting there, either, as the XL1 will manage the 62mph benchmark in 12.7 seconds. OK, that’s not exactly fast, but it’s not unusable, either. It’ll also crack 100mph – just – giving it the ability to cruise at motorway speeds without too much trouble. Unlike the 1L, which seated its occupants in tandem, the XL1 will also feature a near-normal seating arrangement, albeit with the passenger slightly rearward of the driver to assist with packaging.

No word has yet been given on how much the XL1 will cost, nor when (or, indeed, whether) we’ll see it on sale in the UK. But VW has confirmed that the new car will be hand-built at its Osnabruck facility, so expect to see a limited production run and a not-inconsiderable asking price.

We've seen that look before somewhere...
We've seen that look before somewhere...
Hmmm... now, what does the XL1 remind us of? Oh yes, that’s right – the first-gen Honda Insight wore the same tapered profile and covered rear wheels, for obvious aerodynamic reasons. And they still look just as outlandish today, which means they’re developing something of a cult following. So if you like the look of the XL1, but don’t have the cash it’s likely to cost (and, we hasten to add, aren’t looking for over 300mpg), you can still ‘own the look’ for significantly less. Here’s one, for example, going for just over £6,000 – which seems a trifle steep, but it has only done 45,000 miles. Or if not, how’s about this one? It isn’t cosmetically brilliant, but if nobody else bids it could be yours for £1,700.





Author
Discussion

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Thursday 21st February 2013
quotequote all
The initial message was deleted from this topic on 21 February 2013 at 15:46

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Thursday 21st February 2013
quotequote all
rhinochopig said:
One of the big manufacturers needs to build a white goods commuter car. Essentially a insight with a 3 pot 1itre diesel and two comfy seats, simple interior with no sat nav / stupid electronic gadgets but a good quality stereo, and a decent boot. Faired in rear wheels and skinny little high profile tyres.

There are thousands of people who do fairly long commutes who just want somewhere comfy to sit, and something that will do mega MPG.
BMW 116d EfficientDynamics?
VW Polo Bluemotion 1.2TDI?
Skoda Fabia GreenLine II 1.2CDI?

Or did you mean higher MPG values than these?

C

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
cptsideways said:
1983 !!

I wonder what the turning circle was like on that...

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
Eidolon said:
Heh... Yeah ok they are inbound, but they could make it sans covers and with a longer rear axle, then it'd look like my image above.

Or mahoosive spacers of course!!
A classic example of "I don't care about the engineering, just make it look pretty".

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
Chicane-UK said:
I think this is absolutely fantastic - one of the most fascinating new cars to go into production in years. Congratulations VW.

Now I'm curious to know what one will cost..
Guesstimate: £50K

Still interested?

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
R500POP said:
If it was under £25k I'd have one in a heartbeat.
Sadly, though, it won't be.

The PH article points to it being hand-built, but it doesn't mention that VW will only build up to 1000 of them annually (reuters did).

C

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
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Funny other little factoid:

10 litre fuel tank.

C

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
JonnyVTEC said:
So it appears that aluminium would be 20% heavier but 40 times cheaper to produce the body....

Sorry why did they go with carbon fibre? Forgot the point about recylability for now, you could even start ally with reclaimed ally. A real 'tin can' of a car then!
It's a technology experiment, just the same as the first aluminium cars were. Audi did the A8 spaceframe... when? 1993?

This is another technological toe in the water exercise along those lines.

If you want a mass-production car, buy the version of the Up! they are shoving the drivetrain into.

C

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
cptsideways said:
Ok some quick calcs using an online calculator

Typical average saloon car with a good Cd figure of 0.26 but a frontal area of 1m squared which is about the average modern car, with a modern eco diesel engine & eco features.

Identical calcs for engine/losses etc

At 60 mph the 1m frontal area car would do 2.92 l/100km 96.74 mpg
At 60 mph the.5m frontal area car would do 1.13 l/100km 249.98 mpg

Frontal area makes the biggest difference to eco'ness by a far greater margin than anything else imho
I'm not sure your average number is all that average.

Examples:
BMW E90 320d EfficientDynamics has a frontal area of 2.17m^2, and a Cd factor of 0.27. CdA = 0.586
BMW F30 320d EfficientDynamics has a frontal area of 2.20m^2, and a Cd factor of 0.26. CdA = 0.572

Even a Lotus Elise CR has a frontal area of 1.6m^2. With a Cd factor of 0.41 or so, the CdA on it would be 0.656, draggier than the saloon cars mentioned above.

This agrees with published specs to some degree.
The Elise R (189ps) manages 138mph, while the aerodynamically cleaner 320d cars manage 142/143mph respectively - on only 163ps.
The Elise SC (220ps) manages 145mph, while a 320d (with only 184ps) manages 146mph.

These are just examples showing that the shape has quite a big influence on the drag. It's not just frontal area.

C

Edited for speeling.

Edited by CraigyMc on Friday 22 February 11:34

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
JonnyVTEC said:
CraigyMc said:
It's a technology experiment, just the same as the first aluminium cars were. Audi did the A8 spaceframe... when? 1993?

This is another technological toe in the water exercise along those lines.

If you want a mass-production car, buy the version of the Up! they are shoving the drivetrain into.

C
Its okay, got a Gen1 Insight wink

Fair enough point, need to keep up with the BMW i CRFRP stuff afterall!
It wasn't an idle point actually - they are stuffing the 2-cylinder 800cc diesel into the up!. Not sure about the electrical gubbins, but I'd be surprised if they didn't go in too.

OT: Nice car, the insight.

C

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
JonnyVTEC said:
CraigyMc said:
It wasn't an idle point actually - they are stuffing the 2-cylinder 800cc diesel into the up!. Not sure about the electrical gubbins, but I'd be surprised if they didn't go in too.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/scoop/vw-hybrid-use-xl1-tech
I wish that wasn't an AutoCar link. They often get stuff wrong.

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
sideways man said:
This car with just a 3 pot turbo diesel- no hybrid nonsense or electrical gimmicks in order to keep weight to a minimum.
It is the future of mass motoring. Unfortunately.
With the price of fuel increasing every month, we NEED a vehicle that does circa 300 mpg.
This car already has a 2-pot diesel. Adding a 3rd cylinder would give you more power and less economy.

V

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
k-ink said:
R500POP said:
garypotter said:
what a dogste looking car,
Thanks for the elecuant response
Eloquent?
Petulant?

Crapulent?

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
Chicane-UK said:
But do you not think, if VW could make these for a reasonably affordable price, and be the first to market with such a model, they'd sell them by the absolutely BOAT load?
The problem is that they can't be made for what you regard as a reasonably affordable price.
The car is built out of carbon fibre, that alone will stop it from being made cheaply. It's expensive enough to build stuff out of cheaper materials.

Put another way, if VW could make a <insert your favourit expensive car here> derivative for a reasonably affordable price, and be the first to market with such a model, they'd sell them by the absolutely BOAT load. -- well, obviously.

C

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
Mr Gear said:
Yeah, but you don't HAVE to make it out of carbon fibre.
Oh, I see you're talking about another, heavier, less fuel-efficient car.

Mr Gear said:
And Carbon fibre doesn't HAVE to be expensive anyway. The cost is plummeting these days.
It's moved from $1m cars (eg. F1) to $250K (eg. 12C) cars in the last 10 years.

That doesn't mean it will be in $30K cars this year. The cheapest car with a structural carbonfibre chassis is still the 12C, as far as I know.

C

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Saturday 23rd February 2013
quotequote all
Strawman said:
CraigyMc said:
It's moved from $1m cars (eg. F1) to $250K (eg. 12C) cars in the last 10 years.

That doesn't mean it will be in $30K cars this year. The cheapest car with a structural carbonfibre chassis is still the 12C, as far as I know.

C
The Alfa 4C that launches this year and reportedly sub £50k has a carbon fibre chassis/body.
A few things on that:
  • £50K isn't $30K.
  • The XL1 looks like it might cost about the same.
  • Neither UK price is fixed yet, and neither car (Alfa/VW) is available. The 12C is.
C

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Sunday 24th February 2013
quotequote all
Clivey said:
The real clever products are those from GM and Tesla.
Beg to differ.

The real clever products (currently) are the bluemotion/greenline/bluefficiency/ecotec/efficientdynamics ones, to my mind.

Good aerodynamics, diesel engine, details to reduce wastes of energy. The Tesla doesn't do this because it's compromised by weight and even with regen braking you don't get most of it back. GM aren't exactly leaders at diesel and I assume you're alluding to the volt which has the same problem as the tesla (& fisker).

C

CraigyMc

Original Poster:

16,409 posts

236 months

Monday 25th February 2013
quotequote all
Mr Gear said:
CraigyMc said:
Beg to differ.

The real clever products (currently) are the bluemotion/greenline/bluefficiency/ecotec/efficientdynamics ones, to my mind.

Good aerodynamics, diesel engine, details to reduce wastes of energy. The Tesla doesn't do this because it's compromised by weight and even with regen braking you don't get most of it back. GM aren't exactly leaders at diesel and I assume you're alluding to the volt which has the same problem as the tesla (& fisker).

C
You have to be kidding? The only reason VW have only just started doing hybrids is quite simply because they are 15 years behind the Japanese and desperately trying to catch up.
Nope, genuinely not kidding. I don't think batteries (at least weighing what they do at the moment) are a good way to store power for cars. Essentially, energy density is my concern.

C