Electric Car Repairs/Maintenance ?
Discussion
To continue my series of slightly inane questions regarding the current/imminent elecric car revolution.
What kind of maintenance will they require, I cant think of much, am thinking they will be a lot less needy than an IC car, putting batteries aside for the time being.
Do they have a cooling circuit, surely there must be some cooling involved when all that energy is drained fromt he batteries to the motor, but cant imagine it is under as much duress as an I/C cooling circuit, or do they have a big heatsink with a sticker saying "Hot !" like my last electric vehicle ?
Brakes I would imagine last longer as a lot of the braking is regenerative, fluid I suspect would be the same interval.
Oil, there isnt any ! am guessing the lubricaton of the motors bearings is packed in when its built and thats it, there isnt a conventional gearbox but there is some kind of transfer to the wheels, even normal manuals seem to be sealed for life and I cant see it being any different with an EV, the main reason in IC cars to change the oil is for shift quality, if you dont have a shift, you dont notice and as long as it goes you dont care, problably less polluted thn on a normal car, less heat, no combustion etc ?
Motor, am thinking it will be largely a sealed unit and maintenance free ?
No Cambelts !
No Plugs, plug leads, distributor cap, DMFs, DPFs, injectors, turbos, MAF sensor, valves, pistons, cams, air filter, oil filter, fuel filter, fuel pump. Makes you realise how needy IC engines are in comparison to electric motors, would be interesting to hear form someone who maintains electric trains, similar but bigger scale.
Drive Electronics, possibly an area for concern, my mate buys and sells mobility scooters and it seems a common failure point, is it any more prone than a modern ECU ?
Clutch, there isnt one, so no worries there.
Exhaust, another thing to not have to think about.
Steering/Suspension, well, there is extra weight but am asuming they will cater for that in the design, all that torque could be quite tough on components though.
Tyres, I have seen what a weighty diesel car can do to a set of tyres, the slug of torque is addictive, where people had a 2.0 petrol before with 130 lb/ft and 130 bhp, they now have the same 130 bhp but with double the torque, electric motors can develop even more torque and I get the impression from the Tesla S reviews and speaking to a Nissan Leaf owner they are quite compelling to drive, usually that goes hand in hand with shredding tyres, that low down grunt is not doing burnouts but it does stress a tyre more than a petrol with less torque and having to go through the rev range to get at it.
All the other gubbins should be similar I guess.
I think a main dealer service for an EV will be even more smoke and mirrors than the current glorified oil change
What kind of maintenance will they require, I cant think of much, am thinking they will be a lot less needy than an IC car, putting batteries aside for the time being.
Do they have a cooling circuit, surely there must be some cooling involved when all that energy is drained fromt he batteries to the motor, but cant imagine it is under as much duress as an I/C cooling circuit, or do they have a big heatsink with a sticker saying "Hot !" like my last electric vehicle ?
Brakes I would imagine last longer as a lot of the braking is regenerative, fluid I suspect would be the same interval.
Oil, there isnt any ! am guessing the lubricaton of the motors bearings is packed in when its built and thats it, there isnt a conventional gearbox but there is some kind of transfer to the wheels, even normal manuals seem to be sealed for life and I cant see it being any different with an EV, the main reason in IC cars to change the oil is for shift quality, if you dont have a shift, you dont notice and as long as it goes you dont care, problably less polluted thn on a normal car, less heat, no combustion etc ?
Motor, am thinking it will be largely a sealed unit and maintenance free ?
No Cambelts !
No Plugs, plug leads, distributor cap, DMFs, DPFs, injectors, turbos, MAF sensor, valves, pistons, cams, air filter, oil filter, fuel filter, fuel pump. Makes you realise how needy IC engines are in comparison to electric motors, would be interesting to hear form someone who maintains electric trains, similar but bigger scale.
Drive Electronics, possibly an area for concern, my mate buys and sells mobility scooters and it seems a common failure point, is it any more prone than a modern ECU ?
Clutch, there isnt one, so no worries there.
Exhaust, another thing to not have to think about.
Steering/Suspension, well, there is extra weight but am asuming they will cater for that in the design, all that torque could be quite tough on components though.
Tyres, I have seen what a weighty diesel car can do to a set of tyres, the slug of torque is addictive, where people had a 2.0 petrol before with 130 lb/ft and 130 bhp, they now have the same 130 bhp but with double the torque, electric motors can develop even more torque and I get the impression from the Tesla S reviews and speaking to a Nissan Leaf owner they are quite compelling to drive, usually that goes hand in hand with shredding tyres, that low down grunt is not doing burnouts but it does stress a tyre more than a petrol with less torque and having to go through the rev range to get at it.
All the other gubbins should be similar I guess.
I think a main dealer service for an EV will be even more smoke and mirrors than the current glorified oil change
I love projected depreciation figure, the ones that promise a low mileage, serviced German thing for 38 percent of its new price at three years old, just try going into that VW dealer looking for that 3 year old R32 Golf for nine grand or the Merc dealer for that A class diesel for seven and you will be very dissapointed. My dad has just bought an MG6, at a year old, according to the guides he should be paid twelve grand to take it away.
I suspect a healthy aftermarket will spring up around EV's, lock in has been tried before with ECU's, specific connecters etc etc, as long as there is enough of a market there will be an aftermarket.
I remember when Electronic fuel injection came in, it was viewed with awe and suspicion at first but people build knowledge, especially easy now as it is shared via the internet, across the globe between the interested parties, largely for free.
I think EV's make massive sense for a lot of people, it is a bit of an oddball choice at the moment but it is happening, people will get used to seeing, buying and running EV's, they arent for everyone just yet but diesels just used to be in commercials, generators and boats, now everything has one.
it will initially be wealthier, early adopters, just for the fact that all full electric cars on the road are under a couple of years old, they are now on my radar as a runabout, we have a Citroen C1, I can see when that comes up for replacement a Leaf may slot in very nicely.
I think the maintenance will be negligible, wonderful though the IC engine is, it is basically volatile fossil based fuel exploding under control which generate excessive heat, noise and complexity, its saving grace is the fuel is energy dense and fairly easy to store and transport.
The IC Engine has had a hundred years of use or more and the attendant development, a superior technology has always been available but the fuel issue prevented it being adopted widely, it does feel like other technologies, like the CRT, Broadcast TV, Records, Tapes etc, all effectively bodges developed more than they really should have been that will get dropped like a stone when the technology exists to support the simpler, better solution.
The death knell is getting ready to sound for the IC Engine as the main motive force for most personal transport, it will take a while but it is sure as hell coming.
Buy Shares in EV companies and battery manufacturers !
I remember when Electronic fuel injection came in, it was viewed with awe and suspicion at first but people build knowledge, especially easy now as it is shared via the internet, across the globe between the interested parties, largely for free.
I think EV's make massive sense for a lot of people, it is a bit of an oddball choice at the moment but it is happening, people will get used to seeing, buying and running EV's, they arent for everyone just yet but diesels just used to be in commercials, generators and boats, now everything has one.
it will initially be wealthier, early adopters, just for the fact that all full electric cars on the road are under a couple of years old, they are now on my radar as a runabout, we have a Citroen C1, I can see when that comes up for replacement a Leaf may slot in very nicely.
I think the maintenance will be negligible, wonderful though the IC engine is, it is basically volatile fossil based fuel exploding under control which generate excessive heat, noise and complexity, its saving grace is the fuel is energy dense and fairly easy to store and transport.
The IC Engine has had a hundred years of use or more and the attendant development, a superior technology has always been available but the fuel issue prevented it being adopted widely, it does feel like other technologies, like the CRT, Broadcast TV, Records, Tapes etc, all effectively bodges developed more than they really should have been that will get dropped like a stone when the technology exists to support the simpler, better solution.
The death knell is getting ready to sound for the IC Engine as the main motive force for most personal transport, it will take a while but it is sure as hell coming.
Buy Shares in EV companies and battery manufacturers !
shoehorn said:
J4CKO said:
I suspect a healthy aftermarket will spring up around EV's, lock in has been tried before with ECU's, specific connecters etc etc, as long as there is enough of a market there will be an aftermarket.
I remember when Electronic fuel injection came in, it was viewed with awe and suspicion at first but people build knowledge, especially easy now as it is shared via the internet, across the globe between the interested parties, largely for free.
With the arrival and ever increasing use of constantly monitored systems,vehicles being updated by the manufacturers in real time and on board finery such as sat-nav becoming reliant on dedicated manufacturers networks to function or updateI remember when Electronic fuel injection came in, it was viewed with awe and suspicion at first but people build knowledge, especially easy now as it is shared via the internet, across the globe between the interested parties, largely for free.
they would simply use a similar tactic employed by games console manufacturers with modified or altered consoles and just ban you permanently from the network,leaving it virtually worthless.
They could easily reverse,overwrite or stop any software changes you may have made,
Even shut the car down entirely,after requiring that you sign a legal binding agreement not to tamper upon purchase.
Using their combined might to push through legislation that suits them is a well worn path for the motor industry,this time they will have reasonable safety issues on their side.
As it is the EU is constantly pushing for tighter and tighter controls over our vehicles already and as computer-electric technology is seemingly viewed as the way forward and using safety as a primary lever it will be easy for the manufacturers to convince the needed bodies that total control over their product is the way to go,
Maybe even going as far as outlawing any such ideas of wiring in a couple of extra pp9`s
Already software is making it hard or near impossible to modify some stuff without whole swathes of other stuff not working.
Christ,from what I gather from this site,even a satisfactory dpf delete is beyond many `specialists`
Let alone the seemingly,commonly held view on here that successful mapping of just two parameters(fuel and air)as it stands is an art coveted by many but mastered by very few and that`s been going on for 20 odd years now!
I have heard that new Volvo models of all types will have total encryption of all systems requiring factory generated codes for any diagnostics,apart from obligated obd which covers very little (engine/emissions system)and will no doubt be redundant on an EV.
There is no arguing that that can only be to cut out the competition.
Honda have for some time now,been using codes for stuff that you just cant obtain for love nor money.
If that is the state now,what will it be in 5-10 years time?
Also comparing fuel injection tech to EV tech is a little like comparing an airbus with the Wright brothers flier,I`m afraid.
I don't think manufacturers will start "Bricking" peoples cars, suspect if there is there will be a market for getting them chipped like a console or someone will develop an unlocked system, it is amazing how resourceful and devious people can be when they need to be, if there is too much lock in, then people will avoid that product, look at the outcry when MS said you couldn't play second hand games on the new Xbox.
I am going to get a Leaf and put a 15 turn double in it, electronic speed controller and ball race it, not sure my EV knowledge still applies though...
Does make me think, I remember when the speed controller lost the plot on my last Tamiya (Dark Impact) and burst into flames very impressively.
The battery packs look like a massive bodge, basically thousands of laptop battery cells, must be pretty labour intensive to produce, can see why they are expensive but I guess the production methods will improve over time, and there was me thinking it was one massive battery.
Does make me think, I remember when the speed controller lost the plot on my last Tamiya (Dark Impact) and burst into flames very impressively.
The battery packs look like a massive bodge, basically thousands of laptop battery cells, must be pretty labour intensive to produce, can see why they are expensive but I guess the production methods will improve over time, and there was me thinking it was one massive battery.
Gentlemen, we have our first proper, geeky tech discussion on EV's, a watershed moment I think you will agree.
Loving all the info, to go with my half baked knowledge of Combustion engines.
The Electric Motor really appeals to me nowadays, it is such a beautifully simple device compared to even a small piston engine, the lack of an iffy rubber band synchronizing many expensive metal parts in close proximity at high speed is a big plus point. Obviously we all love the IC engine but look at the internals of even a small one and they are so much more complex.
A Tesla Model S does an equivalent of 90 odd Mpg, three to four times more than you could expect from a comparable petrol car which I find amazing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gaso...
Loving all the info, to go with my half baked knowledge of Combustion engines.
The Electric Motor really appeals to me nowadays, it is such a beautifully simple device compared to even a small piston engine, the lack of an iffy rubber band synchronizing many expensive metal parts in close proximity at high speed is a big plus point. Obviously we all love the IC engine but look at the internals of even a small one and they are so much more complex.
A Tesla Model S does an equivalent of 90 odd Mpg, three to four times more than you could expect from a comparable petrol car which I find amazing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gaso...
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