Buyer has paid finance off but disappeared

[kevinpiper]

Confused person in need of advice here

I agreed to sell my car to someone (without viewing) and he has proceeded to pay off my finance. I have confirmation that the finance is cleared however i have not heard from the chap since (this was 8 days ago). I have sent him 4 or 5 text messages asking when he would be free to complete the deal but been met with silence. I don't know how to proceed at the moment other than wait until he contacts me.

Has anyone experienced this before and if so what happened?

I am probably getting ahead of myself here but what if he never shows up, what are the legal implications of him paying off my finance (approx £15k). How long do i have to legally wait until i am entitled to sell the car again?

Or, what if he is unable to complete the deal (still has to pay approx £7k in cash), is he entitled to a refund from me or is the payment effectively a non refundable deposit?

Any help would be massively appreciated even if it is to tell me to wait a little longer (he could be on holiday!)

Cheers

[kevinpiper]

Thanks for the feedback although my sausages are not frozen and therefore difficult to hammer into his lawn. very messy.

I have tried calling, just rings and rings. I'll give him another week, as you say may have family problems to resolve, then i'll re-advertise it. If someone else comes along, i'll refund him his money.

in the mean time would it be fair the rag the car silly?

[kevinpiper]

The finance company have clarified with me that the money has cleared, he paid via chaps. I have a letter stating that nothing is owing and my direct debit has been stopped by the finance company.

All a bit strange but appears above board.

I'll give him some time. annoying but hey, i'm not paying any finance charges now! Every cloud and all that.

[kevinpiper]

unfortunately not dead so can't split the 15k between all posters.

here is the story:

He called me on Wed 24th Sep at 7.50pm and we agreed the sale of the car.
He rang on Thurs 25th at 4.50pm and i missed his call
I rang him about 10 mins later and he said he would be paying my finance off in the morning.
He sent me a text on Fri 26th asking if i had received an email from finance company.
I text him back to say, "no, i'll call the finance company"
I text him to say finance office had closed and i would speak to them tomorrow
I text him on Sat 27th saying that finance has cleared and when does he wish to settle up and collect the car.
I text again Mon 29th informing him of my week plans so he can arrange collection.
I text him on Wed 1st Oct asking again for plans.
I called him but no answer on Fri 3rd.
Following that i posted on here to ask for advice.

This morning (Monday) i have called the finance company just to double check and they no longer hold any financial interest in the car, i.e. it's paid off.
Am about to call and text him. Let's see what happens.

[kevinpiper]

by the way, the texts i had been sending had delivery confirmation. Not sure whether that is concrete proof he is receiving them or not though.

[kevinpiper]

I have a work blackberry with tighter security than Heathrow Airport so no whatsapp i'm afraid.

If he has lost my number then the only way he can trace me is if i readvertise so maybe i'll do that and see if he comes back to me.

[kevinpiper]

Surely the finance that has been paid is the responsibility of the finance company to check the legitimacy of the payment. That's their issue, not mine.

The only issue i would have if he turns up to pay the remainder with money that has wet ink running down the notes.

[kevpip]

Schermerhorn said:

He pays off finance with a stolen card or his own money.

Disappears.

Claims cards etc were stolen (if his own money) and he was beaten up or whatever fantasy he wants to tell the company and asks bank to recover the money for him. Bank and finance company get into an argument and finance eventually relinquishes.

He ends up with a car and keeps his money if it is all done correctly by him.

He's waiting this one out to see what happens.

I appreciate this could be a possibility. Let's assume it is the case, if i then proceed with the sale, he gives me cash which is legit (6k-ish) and heads off with the car. Then later on we find out the cash used for finance is not legit. At that point surely the due diligence of the finance company has failed and i would not be expected to pay back the £15k. I would hope this is the case otherwise this is the easiest scam in the world as the guy has got at £20k+ car for £6k.

[kevpip]

pacoryan said:

Happened to me. Blind buyer made 3 payments to my finance company before going quiet. Finance co. wouldn't let him make four separate payments due to suspicion. At least a week later they confirmed the payments were made with several stolen cards that took a few days to be noticed etc.

His main mistake was to use cards with low limits, if he'd nicked one with a £15k limit and done it in one go I would have taken the finance co's word and parted with the car.

I didn't really trust the bloke anyway - no queries about the car at all, no bartering and wouldn't give me a landline number. Red flags were waving.

I'm intrigued. What happened? Were you notified prior to releasing the car by the police/fraud team or was this some time afterwards.

[kevpip]

Just missed a call. Got excited and phoned it back. Rangemaster engineer to fix our cooker. very disappointed. Maybe he needs a new car???

I updated my profile and didn't realise "Log-in name" was the same as what was appearing in the thread - sorry no conspiracy theories here.

I have re-advertised the car, not with the intention of selling it but with the intention of giving the chap a contact channel to get hold of me if he has lost his phone.

I'll give him a couple of days and then i'll give PH a call to see if they can advise me. Failing that, i'll be contacting someone regarding financial/legal advice. One way or another i just want a conclusion.

Watch this space!

[kevpip]

I have spoken to the Finance peeps twice and they have verbally confirmed twice. I have also been sent a letter confirming that they have no financial interest in the car. I am sure this should cover me although i'm going to get back in touch with them today to double check the source of the payment. Although it was via CHAPS which i understand requires ID to be presented at a physical bank. Someone can correct me if i am wrong.

Starting to get draining now, although i am not paying finance payments so not all bad.

[kevpip]

V8LM said:

Money laundering - he'll wait until you sell the car and then claim the 15k back from you.

How will he know when i have sold the car? If he phones up and want's his money back (i.e. doesn't want to go through with the deal), he'll have to wait until i do sell the car. What happens if i decide i don't want to sell it? If he is genuine, he'll kick off and argue for his money. If it's laundering, he might just disappear (again!).

There are a million scenarios running through my head. I bet you it turns out he was on holiday and forgot to tell me.

[kevpip]

Of course am not anticipating having a free 15k. I got more chance of winning the lottery than being able to keep the money, clean or not.

The rationale for the delay is to give the guy a chance if he has been on holiday. If he has genuinely lost my details i re-advertised the car yesterday so he can see my phone number.

I am working from home tomorrow (that gives him a week and a half since paying the finance) and will call the finance company. I'll take advice from you peeps and advise them of a possible fraud and i'll take it from there.

[kevpip]

Thanks for the advice about the CHAPS

[kevpip]

Mystery Man has just called me. To add to the suspense i'll give you some options. Which one do you think is true...

1) Guy called and said he'd been on holiday for the last week, apologises for not letting me know and wishes to complete the transaction
2) Guy called and had a family member taken ill and wishes to complete the transaction
3) Police contacted me to say guy is a fraud and took a statement
4) Guy called to say he had family problems and can't complete the transaction. Can i sell the car to a garage and he'll pay the difference between garage price and agreed sale price.

Any guesses?

[kevpip]

It is 4) although I have worded it badly. He basically wants a refund once i have sold the car.

I have contacted my finance fraud team and awaiting their phone call.

[kevpip]

I have no doubt the finance company will reinstate my finance. To what cost though? I hope they will be sympathetic and waiver any further interest charges accrued. Unless i have to reapply for finance???? I hope not because that will have implications itself particularly as i bought a house last year so gaining finance might be tighter!

[kevpip]

Pommygranite said:

Armed robber, paedos? Don't forget terrorists and pirates....

Really? FFS really?

You said go to the Police - and say what?! It's a civil matter and secondly no crime has been committed. Please just play the conversation out that would occur when the OP gets to the front counter of the station...really, do it.

Have you ever sold anyone a car that wouldn't know your name, address and car reg once you'd taken a deposit? In fact you don't know if the 'buyer' here knows the OP's address. And what's he going to do with his finance acct number?

Think you deserve the FFS.

Glad you responded to this post and not me.

[kevpip]

gizlaroc said:

I have sold loads of cars privately, and loads with finance on them.
I don't understand how the seller fell for this if it was a scam, surely the buyer must seem genuine to you?

He must have sounded OK on the phone, genuine questions about the car etc.?

He is either very good, genuine, or you got excited about your car selling easily and didn't stop and think 'this is all a bit too easy'.



I have only ever had 3 people I was not sure about, and I just said the car was sold elsewhere.

I was so easily persuaded by his lovely accent that i thought he deserves the car more than me so i bowed down to his wishes. How patronising. You don't know it is a scam to start with because he behaves exactly like any other buyer would, that is why the scam works. Unfortunately for him i am educated enough to spot it before it is too late.

I sold a car about 8 years ago to a chap for £24k. He agreed to buy it over the phone and we agreed a price assuming the car was as advertised and had no scratches. He paid the finance and then turned up a few days later to check the car and pay the difference. Completely genuine and nice guy and it turned out we had work connections too.

Not everyone who doesn't view the car is a hardened criminal

[kevpip]

lukefreeman said:

Do what he says.........


Sell to Garage, Give him the asking price minus actual price paid by garage plus the £15k finance and be done with it.

If the Finance is all paid off pukka, what is there too lose?

Happy to do this but just want the finance fraud team to give the green light that they are happy there will be no come back on me