2010 VW Polo - Timing chain gone.
Discussion
I have a 2010 polo 6R, 1.2 70ps petrol engine, 60k on the clock.
History ; Registered and bought new in 2010, serviced for 4 years through mobility at a main VW garage. I then purchased the vehicle in 2014 and have had it for 1 year with a full service from an independent VW specialist.
I have had the timing chain fail, there was no pre warning, engine lights or unusual sounds, it has yet to be recovered to my mechanic but the local recovery garage said its not a pretty sight and the chain has failed and the work is major. His opinion is that the engine is destroyed.
I had traveled 70 motorway miles, parked the car on a steep gravel drive facing upward, on switching off the ignition the car jerked forward and there was a 'clunk' from the engine compartment, on re-starting the engine all hell broke loose with metal screaming, sounding like a tractor, I immediately turned the engine off and contacted my mechanic.
I have read online about 2009-2010 petrol VW tiguan, golf and sirocco's having timing chain failures but nothing on the polo 6R with it being a newer model. There are reports of similar stories with SEAT and Skoda 1.2 engines, albiet TSI's
Its my understanding that there is no maintenance plan or service schedule for the timing chain because it is a life time part and should last the life of the vehicle.
If the vehicle was fitted with a timing belt, and it had a service schedule at 60k to replace, then this would have been carried out as part of looking after my car, costing £300-400. The chain failure has potentially cost me 1-6k for an engine (reconditioned or new)
The car is very well looked after and its soul destroying for this to happen, I'm not sure yet what my options are moving forward from here. A realistic low ball private value before this problem was 5k (independents listing similar @ 6.2-6.5k, Main dealers 7-7.6k)So I guess I should work with that price in terms of feasibility for repairing.
I genuinely have not felt this 'sick' in my life over anything.
Who would have thought a 4.5 year old VW with full service history would pack it in
Should I approach Volkswagen UK with this problem ? How would I go about structuring the letter/email ?
History ; Registered and bought new in 2010, serviced for 4 years through mobility at a main VW garage. I then purchased the vehicle in 2014 and have had it for 1 year with a full service from an independent VW specialist.
I have had the timing chain fail, there was no pre warning, engine lights or unusual sounds, it has yet to be recovered to my mechanic but the local recovery garage said its not a pretty sight and the chain has failed and the work is major. His opinion is that the engine is destroyed.
I had traveled 70 motorway miles, parked the car on a steep gravel drive facing upward, on switching off the ignition the car jerked forward and there was a 'clunk' from the engine compartment, on re-starting the engine all hell broke loose with metal screaming, sounding like a tractor, I immediately turned the engine off and contacted my mechanic.
I have read online about 2009-2010 petrol VW tiguan, golf and sirocco's having timing chain failures but nothing on the polo 6R with it being a newer model. There are reports of similar stories with SEAT and Skoda 1.2 engines, albiet TSI's
Its my understanding that there is no maintenance plan or service schedule for the timing chain because it is a life time part and should last the life of the vehicle.
If the vehicle was fitted with a timing belt, and it had a service schedule at 60k to replace, then this would have been carried out as part of looking after my car, costing £300-400. The chain failure has potentially cost me 1-6k for an engine (reconditioned or new)
The car is very well looked after and its soul destroying for this to happen, I'm not sure yet what my options are moving forward from here. A realistic low ball private value before this problem was 5k (independents listing similar @ 6.2-6.5k, Main dealers 7-7.6k)So I guess I should work with that price in terms of feasibility for repairing.
I genuinely have not felt this 'sick' in my life over anything.
Who would have thought a 4.5 year old VW with full service history would pack it in
Should I approach Volkswagen UK with this problem ? How would I go about structuring the letter/email ?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I guess they call them 'stealers' for a reason. It's the 70PS version with a higher level trim, but yes I have seen them listed at VW dealers for that price within the last 8 weeks. I guess I can only hope that VW UK will hold the opinion that a youngish engine shouldn't pack it in, and a fundemntal non-serviceable part fail.
Got the car into a main VW dealer to be looked at under a family members business account. The warranty manager contacted VW UK and they stated that there was no goodwill 'allocated' to my year or model of car. The dealer has provided details of VW UK customer services if I wish to make a case.
The minimum costs was given at aprox £1000 to open the engine up to see what the damage was, and then for the engine to be closed up, this couldn't be discounted by any goodwill or contributions as it comes under investigative labour.
We agreed to go ahead and do this, and it is the best of the bad news. Only the top half of the engine is damaged, due to the timing chain failing whilst stationary. Parts can be replaced with the top half of the engine rebuilt. Parts are £900 plus the £1000 minimum labour cost.
The dealer is willing to apply a 'CGI' fund to the parts due to the family member holding a high value account with them. Basically the dealer pays 20%, indirectly VW UK pay 20% and we pay 60% of the parts. Overall our bill is aprox £1500
- The master mechanic at the dealer stated that I should have had some pre-warning, a consistent rattling from the engine. There has never been any unusual rattling from the engine, and to me this almost says that VW are aware of this issue.
-VW UK are pretty much saying that its acceptable for a 4.5 year old engine with a full service history to have a life-long part fail and cause severe damage, does anyone think it is worth while complaining once the work is done ?
I aim to have the car back tomorrow, Obviously the parts and work will come with a 2 year warranty and the dealer assures me if the same issue occured again it would be covered, labour included. (is this correct?)
I dont know if I feel happy keeping the car, I may look at trading it in for a new fiesta or something else with delivery miles, unfortunately most polos and golfs in my price range have a chain fitted 1.2/1.4 engine.
I still feel we have our breeks down and are being well and truly spanked.
The minimum costs was given at aprox £1000 to open the engine up to see what the damage was, and then for the engine to be closed up, this couldn't be discounted by any goodwill or contributions as it comes under investigative labour.
We agreed to go ahead and do this, and it is the best of the bad news. Only the top half of the engine is damaged, due to the timing chain failing whilst stationary. Parts can be replaced with the top half of the engine rebuilt. Parts are £900 plus the £1000 minimum labour cost.
The dealer is willing to apply a 'CGI' fund to the parts due to the family member holding a high value account with them. Basically the dealer pays 20%, indirectly VW UK pay 20% and we pay 60% of the parts. Overall our bill is aprox £1500
- The master mechanic at the dealer stated that I should have had some pre-warning, a consistent rattling from the engine. There has never been any unusual rattling from the engine, and to me this almost says that VW are aware of this issue.
-VW UK are pretty much saying that its acceptable for a 4.5 year old engine with a full service history to have a life-long part fail and cause severe damage, does anyone think it is worth while complaining once the work is done ?
I aim to have the car back tomorrow, Obviously the parts and work will come with a 2 year warranty and the dealer assures me if the same issue occured again it would be covered, labour included. (is this correct?)
I dont know if I feel happy keeping the car, I may look at trading it in for a new fiesta or something else with delivery miles, unfortunately most polos and golfs in my price range have a chain fitted 1.2/1.4 engine.
I still feel we have our breeks down and are being well and truly spanked.
Edited by lxm on Thursday 2nd April 11:43
Edited by lxm on Thursday 2nd April 11:44
Edited by lxm on Thursday 2nd April 11:45
J4CKO said:
Why on earth would you got to a main dealer with a broken 5 year old car that is out of warranty, even with the various business accounts and other stuff it is £1500, £1000 to open up a broken engine ffs, how, its a couple of hours labour, in fact I am sure any mechanic could probably determine if the engine is toast at the side of the road in five minutes.
The real way to do this is to find and engine and roll your sleeves up and get it done yourself.
Unfortunately at the time we didn't know if the engine needed replacing or if parts could simply be replaced. It was £1k to find out in full terms what the repair was looking like. They state its a 4-5 hour job to open it up and dismantle the bits and bobs, and then the same to close it up. The real way to do this is to find and engine and roll your sleeves up and get it done yourself.
If the engine had been gubbed and needed replaced, we could only initiate a claim with VW UK once this had been diagnosed at a main dealer (this seems apparent via forums across the board with SEAT, SKODA & other VW) I agree it is almost a back against the wall scenario.
I intend to speak with VW UK, the worst they can do is tell me to go away. I will submit a case along with the repair bill and itemized parts list.
Will keep updated,
The car has been repaired and is running well.
The original labour cost quote was inclusive of fitting all the new parts. Looking at the invoice and part numbers, the chain and tensioner which have been fitted are different parts from the original chain and tensioner which were fitted in 2010 during the vehicles build. Does this show that VW have improved parts due to originals being faulty or unreliable?
I plan to draft an email tonight for VW uk. As previously stated this seems to be an issue common with all 2009-2010 Volkswagen petrol engines fitted with timing chains. After trawling through various forums VW Australia and VW Germany issued workshop bulletins on the issue relating to the timing chain tensioner which advised than an updated tensioner be fitted, but not VW UK.
Does anyone have any pointers for drafting up the email? Its worth a shot.
The original labour cost quote was inclusive of fitting all the new parts. Looking at the invoice and part numbers, the chain and tensioner which have been fitted are different parts from the original chain and tensioner which were fitted in 2010 during the vehicles build. Does this show that VW have improved parts due to originals being faulty or unreliable?
I plan to draft an email tonight for VW uk. As previously stated this seems to be an issue common with all 2009-2010 Volkswagen petrol engines fitted with timing chains. After trawling through various forums VW Australia and VW Germany issued workshop bulletins on the issue relating to the timing chain tensioner which advised than an updated tensioner be fitted, but not VW UK.
Does anyone have any pointers for drafting up the email? Its worth a shot.
Edited by lxm on Friday 10th April 18:30
Edited by lxm on Friday 10th April 18:31
A Volkswagen Customer Service UK manager got back to us, Offered us a 'free service' for our inconvenience.
Apparently 'parts go' on cars and that's why they are covered with a three year warranty, - Yes we expect parts to go, but not a lifetime engine part.
She helpfully pointed out that the 1.9k repair is covered with a 2 year warranty to keep our minds at ease...
I can safely say VW have lost out on a loyal family of customers!
Apparently 'parts go' on cars and that's why they are covered with a three year warranty, - Yes we expect parts to go, but not a lifetime engine part.
She helpfully pointed out that the 1.9k repair is covered with a 2 year warranty to keep our minds at ease...
I can safely say VW have lost out on a loyal family of customers!
5 services from new at the original dealership. It was then sold privately to us, we had its last service at an independent VW garage purely because it was local and easy for a different family member to pick up opposed to our VW dealer being 15 miles away. I beleive that the independent may be 'an approved VW repair centre' (would need to double check) I have the invoices from the last service showing all parts and consumables were volkswagen stocked.
I fail to see how it is any different. As previously stated We have had our current and 4 previous main vehicles from our local dealer, a good amount of business, VW are about to loose a customer, they may not care - if we are a blip on the map but I would not recommended VW to anyone after this, and once our 2015 CC is out of warranty it will be binned and off to another car manufacturer.
if the polo was 15 years old with 150k on the clock, then I could totally appreciate the issue, but the car is 5 years old with 6 services on the book, at 10k miles or less, and the first lot of these polo 6R issues are starting to appear more and more over various forums, 50-70k miles seems to be the point where the chains go PING. I think when more of these engines reach that mileage, VW will be swamped with complaints.
I fail to see how it is any different. As previously stated We have had our current and 4 previous main vehicles from our local dealer, a good amount of business, VW are about to loose a customer, they may not care - if we are a blip on the map but I would not recommended VW to anyone after this, and once our 2015 CC is out of warranty it will be binned and off to another car manufacturer.
if the polo was 15 years old with 150k on the clock, then I could totally appreciate the issue, but the car is 5 years old with 6 services on the book, at 10k miles or less, and the first lot of these polo 6R issues are starting to appear more and more over various forums, 50-70k miles seems to be the point where the chains go PING. I think when more of these engines reach that mileage, VW will be swamped with complaints.
Edited by lxm on Saturday 9th May 17:30
Edited by lxm on Saturday 9th May 17:32
16plates said:
Jesus. I do not know where to start!?
OP posts on renound motoring forum asking for advice.
OP is told;
Car is 4.5y/o, done 60k - VW will tell you to suck it if you expect them to pay
OP takes car to VW dealer anyway
OP gets a length in his sherrifs badge to the tune of £1600
OP still thinks its someone elses problem
OP doesn't understand the (usually minimal) risks associated with buying ANY car
OP thinks small claims court and a signwritten vehicle slagging VW will make a difference
I'm in one of those moods but seriously, this makes for some of the most pathetic reading on PH for a while! Bills are part of car ownership, you experienced a particularly s
tty one but we all do at some point, let it go, move on and stop being such a drip.
Drip...drip..drip..drip..drip...drip..drip... OP posts on renound motoring forum asking for advice.
OP is told;
Car is 4.5y/o, done 60k - VW will tell you to suck it if you expect them to pay
OP takes car to VW dealer anyway
OP gets a length in his sherrifs badge to the tune of £1600
OP still thinks its someone elses problem
OP doesn't understand the (usually minimal) risks associated with buying ANY car
OP thinks small claims court and a signwritten vehicle slagging VW will make a difference
I'm in one of those moods but seriously, this makes for some of the most pathetic reading on PH for a while! Bills are part of car ownership, you experienced a particularly s
tty one but we all do at some point, let it go, move on and stop being such a drip.FYI, I never mentioned any court action, that was fellow Ph'ers. I have replaced a wheel bearing, wheel cylinder and shock absorber without issue because I would expect these to go in a vehicle. I wouldn't expect a part that is manufactured as a permanent part, which cannot be serviced to fail at 5 years. The timing chain has replaced a serviceable and 'consumable' timing belt.....
Drip... drip... drip... drip.....
Fox- said:
Do VW not offer an extended warranty?
I wouldn't expect a manufacturer to fix my broken car after 5 years, which is why I have a warranty with them instead?
See aboveI wouldn't expect a manufacturer to fix my broken car after 5 years, which is why I have a warranty with them instead?
Fox- said:
Which is absolutely fine but you can't then go crying to the dealer network when the car goes wrong? You are owed nothing by them and have bought nothing from them!
I completely understand and partially agree with you.... (believe it or not) But we do not expect anything from the dealership, we expect customer service from the manufacturer, and for them to uphold the brand image which they portray and are so proud of, which ultimately drives customer choice.Anyhoo, I shall update with the final outcome when it arrives - Can you blame us for trying ? Nothing to lose.
Playing the devils advocate, It is well documented on the net that VAG are aware of a faulty tensioner in <2013 petrol engines. All petrol engines after 2013 are fitted with a completely re-designed tensioner. The tensioner part number on a 2010 plate is completely different to the part number on a 2013 plate. VW North America put an extended warranty on ALL engines with the faulty tensioner, I believe to 6 years, further VW Australia and VW South Africa released workshop bulletins stating that tensioners should be stealth replaced as they went into dealerships for services, without shouting it out to the customer. This all builds on the complaint that these tensioners were not fit for purpose.
Skoda had a recall on all engines with this tensioner, and covered engine repairs in or out of warranty without issue which can be read about over on various skoda forum.
VW UK just dont seem to want to bow down.
Edited by lxm on Sunday 10th May 12:52
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Timing chains have never been a 'permanent' part. Nearly all car manufacturers that have used chains over the years have had wear issues, such as Jaguar, Mercedes, VW / Audi, BMW et al. They wear out and break on motorbikes and bicycles, so you cannot expect one to last the life of the vehicle in an engine either. I know car makers tout them as being 'maintenance free', but that is no guarantee it won't snap or wear out.
Farty pants spoil sport! In the last month I have had 3 emails from Polo 6R owners saying their timing chains have also failed, a 1.2 n/a from the UK at 55k miles, and two 1.2 TSI owners from europe with 60 and 77k on the clock. Since starting this thread Ive had 7 emails in total with the same story, only one chap has had 95% goodwill, rest had to fork up the full bill.
No goodwill from VW, they offered a free service but we declined. Because VW had already dismantled the engine to 'investigate' we were already committed to a large labour bill..... so had them rebuild and put the engine back together. Total cost was £1900. Invoiced with a 24 month warranty on parts and work.
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