Hot hatch advice please!
Discussion
Hi, I've been a long time browser but I'm a first time poster so not sure whether this is the right place for this topic. If it isn't, someone help please
I am in the market for a properly fast hot hatch. I am 24 with a few years no claims so insurance shouldn't be a problem.
My car history is as follows:
Peugeot 106 1.1 - first car, utterly crap, brakes were beyond dangerous but a fantastic car to learn all the stuff a test doesn't teach you
Mercedes CLK Kompressor - addictive supercharger whine whilst not being that fast, rampant drinking problem, great build quality and comfort. Intro to rwd and fun in the rain despite handling like a boat. 15-20mpg was a wallet buster at the time though.
Peugeot 206 GTi - IMO a very underrated car, reliable, fast enough, good handling and fairly well equipped for the £170 I paid for it. Drove it for a year and sold it for much more than I paid.
Peugeot 306 1.4 - cheap, economical, sensible, comfortable, boring. I decided to grow up, I have since changed my mind.
I have a budget of about 5k and basically want the fastest car I can get for the money. Comfort is quite important as I cover about 25k miles a year. Economy is similarly important but I know I'll have sacrifice that for the speed I'm after. Would love to hear some opinions from those in the know, also feel free to suggest cars I might have overlooked. I would prefer something with tuning potential and 5 seats. Badge and image not important (I quite like a sleeper).
The shortlist at the moment is...
Mini Cooper S - bottom of the list because it's a bit small, looks like a bit of a toy and the interior is so gimmicky but the handling is very highly rated and with an upgraded supercharger pulley and the right exhaust it sounds great.
Audi S3 (the old one) - cheap, very tuneable, a friend had one that did 0-60 in 4 seconds, ridiculously addictive boost and launch, comfortable and well equipped. 4wd grip is great in the wet.
Vauxhall Astra VXR - has been highly recommended by friends and is apparently quicker than the s3 with the right mods.
Renaultsport Megane 225 - rumour has it this is one of the best handling cars out there, has enough performance and is the right size, looks good IMO as well
Looking forward to hearing from my fellow petrolheads!
I am in the market for a properly fast hot hatch. I am 24 with a few years no claims so insurance shouldn't be a problem.
My car history is as follows:
Peugeot 106 1.1 - first car, utterly crap, brakes were beyond dangerous but a fantastic car to learn all the stuff a test doesn't teach you
Mercedes CLK Kompressor - addictive supercharger whine whilst not being that fast, rampant drinking problem, great build quality and comfort. Intro to rwd and fun in the rain despite handling like a boat. 15-20mpg was a wallet buster at the time though.
Peugeot 206 GTi - IMO a very underrated car, reliable, fast enough, good handling and fairly well equipped for the £170 I paid for it. Drove it for a year and sold it for much more than I paid.
Peugeot 306 1.4 - cheap, economical, sensible, comfortable, boring. I decided to grow up, I have since changed my mind.
I have a budget of about 5k and basically want the fastest car I can get for the money. Comfort is quite important as I cover about 25k miles a year. Economy is similarly important but I know I'll have sacrifice that for the speed I'm after. Would love to hear some opinions from those in the know, also feel free to suggest cars I might have overlooked. I would prefer something with tuning potential and 5 seats. Badge and image not important (I quite like a sleeper).
The shortlist at the moment is...
Mini Cooper S - bottom of the list because it's a bit small, looks like a bit of a toy and the interior is so gimmicky but the handling is very highly rated and with an upgraded supercharger pulley and the right exhaust it sounds great.
Audi S3 (the old one) - cheap, very tuneable, a friend had one that did 0-60 in 4 seconds, ridiculously addictive boost and launch, comfortable and well equipped. 4wd grip is great in the wet.
Vauxhall Astra VXR - has been highly recommended by friends and is apparently quicker than the s3 with the right mods.
Renaultsport Megane 225 - rumour has it this is one of the best handling cars out there, has enough performance and is the right size, looks good IMO as well
Looking forward to hearing from my fellow petrolheads!
barryrs said:
£5k would just get you into a 147 GTA.
Its a flawed car no doubt but 4 years on from selling mine i still wish i had kept it tucked up in the garage for occasional use.
I have always loved them! Could it cover 25k a year without falling apart though? That 3.2 v6 is as much art as mechanics. Its a flawed car no doubt but 4 years on from selling mine i still wish i had kept it tucked up in the garage for occasional use.
Didnt actually think of the Golf, it definitely ticks the boxes of practicality and comfort but I didnt think it was that fast or that tuneable. Im really looking for something very fast. I know 0-60 times arent really applicable in the real world but I'd like something that does it in about 4.something seconds.
vtecyo said:
FWIW, none of those are properly fast...
The fastest in a straight line is the Astra VXR
The best round corners is the Megane
The best compromise between the 2 is the Civic Type R (which can easily be made faster than the VXR for a grand)
The best noise is the Focus ST (imo).
The least wallet destroying is the Civic Type R.
The cheapest to repair (I think??) is the Leon Cupra R.
The one I wish I saved up a bit more for and bought is the Golf GTi (mk5)
Yeah none of them are that quick when they are stock. I dont mind modding whatever I get to get the performance out of it. Potential is more important than what it does out the box, as long as I can get the car and mods done for 5-5.5kThe fastest in a straight line is the Astra VXR
The best round corners is the Megane
The best compromise between the 2 is the Civic Type R (which can easily be made faster than the VXR for a grand)
The best noise is the Focus ST (imo).
The least wallet destroying is the Civic Type R.
The cheapest to repair (I think??) is the Leon Cupra R.
The one I wish I saved up a bit more for and bought is the Golf GTi (mk5)
Interesting summary of the cars though, thanks for the insight!
SuperchargedVR6 said:
4.x from a FWD is going to require A) a lot of power and B) a lot of traction. Not cheap to achieve on the usual suspects.
If you're warming towards the GTI, then you'll need the Edition 30, which can map to 320-340hp. The only spannering required being the fitment of an uprated high pressure fuel pump.
Even that will only get you into the 5s.
Pretty sure the s3 could go sub 5 with the right mods but for the budget I would have to get one already modded. My friend did say he couldnt launch it very often though for fear of blowing up diffs and other parts. Said it was a fairly fragile car running that kind of power which has kind of put me off. If it wasnt for that I would already have bought oneIf you're warming towards the GTI, then you'll need the Edition 30, which can map to 320-340hp. The only spannering required being the fitment of an uprated high pressure fuel pump.
Even that will only get you into the 5s.
Thanks for your input guys, I was thinking of getting rid of the Peugeot 306 Im running at the moment and just running the 1 car (hot hatch) as I have a bit of a history of just accumulating cars (at the moment I have 3 - 1 is for sale and 1 is just sat parked up).
With what you guys have said I might just run the 306 as a motorway hack and pile the miles on that. That takes the mileage and fuel economy element out of the hot hatch as it will essentially just be a toy and doesnt need to be particularly practical etc. Is the sub 5 thing really that unrealistic? 5 seconds to 60 doesnt strike me as particularly fast. I know NONE of these cars will do those figures stock but Ive said Im prepared to mod to them to get there.
With what you guys have said I might just run the 306 as a motorway hack and pile the miles on that. That takes the mileage and fuel economy element out of the hot hatch as it will essentially just be a toy and doesnt need to be particularly practical etc. Is the sub 5 thing really that unrealistic? 5 seconds to 60 doesnt strike me as particularly fast. I know NONE of these cars will do those figures stock but Ive said Im prepared to mod to them to get there.
It actually sounds like Im obsessed by that figure but Im really not. It's just the easiest measure of the kind of level of performance that I'm looking for. My benchmark is the tuned s3 my friend had and that is the only figure I had for it. I dont have any in gear times or anything. Was putting out just over 300 bhp and about 300lb ft. I couldnt care less about top speed because Im never going to max it outside of something like the nurburgring anyway.
KarlMac said:
Surely for £5k 25k p/a you'd be better off (or at least considering) PCP/lease on something like a Golf GTI or Leon Cupra 280?
Of all the cars mentioned in the thread so far all £5k is going to buy is a high mileage bag of nails.
I really dont want to go down the PCP route, I have commitment issues lol. I would like to be able to chop and change if I do get bored and I dont want the pressure of monthly car payments. If I need to save for a couple of months I can just park up the toy and drive the shed around slowly eeking out the fuel. Of all the cars mentioned in the thread so far all £5k is going to buy is a high mileage bag of nails.
The Crack Fox said:
And they are dull, dull, dull.
yeah my friend said he hated his because it was really boring and he couldnt get it to 4 wheel drift even in the snow. I loved it but hes convinced I would get bored as quickly as he did. He has now gone back to a Cooper S which is the car he sold to get the S3 in the first place and he loves it.tomjol said:
I have one of those S3s...and I love it, but it isn't cheap to run. The youngest examples are now 12 years old, and therefore will be in serious need of new bushes, shocks, etc. Probably springs too as they love to snap, and that's before you get into the myriad different sensors, boost/PCV/etc pipework, sticky rear calipers...
If your mate's one is his P&J and he's thrown money at it, it's a reasonable purchase. If not, and if you don't want to do that either, don't bother.
Yeah you're right, the suspensions are often quite neglected but I dont mind doing a refresh on that over time. High mileage doesnt put me off either. It's a car to enjoy rather than mundane A to B transport so I dont mind throwing a bit of money at improving it but I dont want huge major repair bills either. If your mate's one is his P&J and he's thrown money at it, it's a reasonable purchase. If not, and if you don't want to do that either, don't bother.
tomjol said:
They are not really "fun" cars, and certainly miles away from something like a Cooper S...but if he can't get it to drift in the snow, he's doing it wrong!
ETA: There aren't really any big bills to watch out for, they're pretty solid, but there are a lot of medium-sized bills, and those can add up fast.
Ah that makes sense. Really useful info, thanks. The S3 and VXR were on my list for outright pace. The Megane and Cooper were there for fun. I'd say VXR and Megane would be top of the list but only because I have heard horror stories of the apparently boring, expensive S3.ETA: There aren't really any big bills to watch out for, they're pretty solid, but there are a lot of medium-sized bills, and those can add up fast.
Edited by tomjol on Tuesday 28th July 17:06
GTID said:
Was just about to post the same, I reckon those mods would get you an extra 20bhp if your lucky!
I wouldn't base 0-60 times as a true indicator of performance, unless you do a lot of drag racing, traffic light GP's etc. The golf R im driving at the moment can do it in 5 flat but in 4 months I've probably launched it twice? In gear it's the Mid range punch that you notice out on the road.
The mk5 GTi Edition 30 gets 270bhp+ with just a Remap but you will pay a premium for one and putting 25k a year on it you would lose that quite quickly! A friend of mine had a 225 Trophy which handled well but proceeded to fall apart on him after a year, same as the clio 200 and Twingo 133 I had, Renaults eh!
As already eluded to for that sort of mileage you may well be better off financially looking at a Diesel, first time I've ever said that I think! Golf GTD, BMW 123d? Boring I know...
Yeah through the course of the thread I have decided I am going to keep my crappy Peugeot 306 and pile the miles on that so the 25k a year isnt a worry anymore. Might go back and edit the original post. I couldnt bring myself to get a boring diesel, Id rather get an Lexus shed and spend the extra money on fuel lolI wouldn't base 0-60 times as a true indicator of performance, unless you do a lot of drag racing, traffic light GP's etc. The golf R im driving at the moment can do it in 5 flat but in 4 months I've probably launched it twice? In gear it's the Mid range punch that you notice out on the road.
The mk5 GTi Edition 30 gets 270bhp+ with just a Remap but you will pay a premium for one and putting 25k a year on it you would lose that quite quickly! A friend of mine had a 225 Trophy which handled well but proceeded to fall apart on him after a year, same as the clio 200 and Twingo 133 I had, Renaults eh!
As already eluded to for that sort of mileage you may well be better off financially looking at a Diesel, first time I've ever said that I think! Golf GTD, BMW 123d? Boring I know...
Dave200 said:
Anything stopping you considering a Focus ST?
Budget seems about right, it's as quick and tuneable as most of the other things you've mentioned, and is reasonably cheap to maintain/service.
A quick remap turns these into pretty serious cars, and easily as capable as anything else you've mentioned.
No not really, I know nothing about them at all and none of my friends have suggested them. Are they decent? Can you tell me a bit more?Budget seems about right, it's as quick and tuneable as most of the other things you've mentioned, and is reasonably cheap to maintain/service.
A quick remap turns these into pretty serious cars, and easily as capable as anything else you've mentioned.
Dave200 said:
Sadly I've only passengered in one with a basic remap and exhaust. However, I was running a car with ~200bhp/tonne at the time and it was mightily impressive - no sign of "horrendous" torquesteer. Inside is no worse than Honda or Vauxhall, and the seats are actually pretty nice (Recaro, I think).
They are plentiful and cheap to run. No reason not to chuck them in the pot with the others.
Thanks, I'll have a look into it. I vaguely remember my Dad running a fully kitted Mondeo ST24 when I was a kid but thats as far as my Blue Oval experience goes. Had really nice big leather seats in it though They are plentiful and cheap to run. No reason not to chuck them in the pot with the others.
neutral 3 said:
Whenever I see the words Hot Hatch, images of one of these imeadiatly come into my head !! 
Had lots of 5 Turbos and still have 2 atm.
OP you say you want the fastest car for your money.....then that will be an E46 M3. Your budget will just get you one with a bit of searching. However prices are said to be on the rise and they are unlikely to be this low again. Plenty still around, so spares are readily available and plenty of tech advise. Yes you won't get more than 29 mpg ( best I have seen is 34 ) but the lack of depreciation will offset this.
But you buy an M3 for the epic "'Drivers Car " that they are, even more so with a CSL steering rack fitted as mine has.
Now THAT is an interesting shout and quite a curve ball. Given that some of the original parameters have now changed (no mileage requirement, no economy requirement) and I dont REALLY need a hatchback anymore as it wont be an every day car, should I abandon this thread and start a new one?Had lots of 5 Turbos and still have 2 atm.
OP you say you want the fastest car for your money.....then that will be an E46 M3. Your budget will just get you one with a bit of searching. However prices are said to be on the rise and they are unlikely to be this low again. Plenty still around, so spares are readily available and plenty of tech advise. Yes you won't get more than 29 mpg ( best I have seen is 34 ) but the lack of depreciation will offset this.
But you buy an M3 for the epic "'Drivers Car " that they are, even more so with a CSL steering rack fitted as mine has.
Also, I loveeee the 5 turbo. Sadly my experience is limited to Xbox and virtual hoonery. Hopefully I'll be able to change that one day.
aka_kerrly said:
Based on your previous cars how on earth can you say that a car that doesn't do 0-60 in around 5 seconds isn't fast?
Clearly your mate with the S3 that did 4 seconds must have upwards of 400hp which will cost you considerably more than £5k on it's own without even buying the car or he was bull s
tting.
Have a little look at this list of cars that do 0-60 in under 6 seconds as standard, there are probably a dozen cars on that list that you may be able to find one for under £5k like S2000, Skyline GTS, Mazda MPS, Porsche 944T, Nissan 350Z, Evos, WRXs, Audi S4s
[url]http://www.autosnout.com/0-60-Times/0-60mph-in-less-than-6-seconds.php[url]
For hot hatches around £5k , I'd be considering a MK5 GTI or the dam good Premier edition EP3 with some mods.
Those are the cars I have owned, the cars I grew up in (Dad's cars, uncle's cars, friend's cars) include w210 E55 AMGs, e34/e39/360 M5, e46/e90 m3s, sierra cossie on grey injectors, Carlton Gsi3000 (basically the Lotus Carlton without the ridiculous turbos) and a ferrari or 2. I know what a fast car feels like.Clearly your mate with the S3 that did 4 seconds must have upwards of 400hp which will cost you considerably more than £5k on it's own without even buying the car or he was bull s
tting.Have a little look at this list of cars that do 0-60 in under 6 seconds as standard, there are probably a dozen cars on that list that you may be able to find one for under £5k like S2000, Skyline GTS, Mazda MPS, Porsche 944T, Nissan 350Z, Evos, WRXs, Audi S4s
[url]http://www.autosnout.com/0-60-Times/0-60mph-in-less-than-6-seconds.php[url]
For hot hatches around £5k , I'd be considering a MK5 GTI or the dam good Premier edition EP3 with some mods.
My mate's s3 felt like one of the fastest of the lot and definitely went sub 5. I couldnt buy a stock s3 and tune it to those levels but I could probably buy one already tuned for the budget (forged internals, uprated cooling, hybrid turbo upgrade etc), it would just be a case of waiting for one to come up. The only problem is the reputation of being expensive to run and very very boring. That's why I was looking for alternatives and suggestions.
neutral 3 said:
Then it will surely be worth looking into the M3 !!
I did have a red 52 plate Cooper S back in 2004, loved it, would have another in a flash if had the £ spare, but it drank more fuel than the fantastic 911 Carrera 3.2 I then had.
My only Astra VXR experience is summer 2013, shorty after buying my M3 in and a young guy and his even younger g/f sitting on my rear bumper.....he soon disapeared in the rear view mirror.
The M3 is heavy, but I've taken the complete rear seats out ( the weight difference is really noticeable ) and the front ( boat anchor seats ) will be replaced with Pole Positions when funds permit. Take a look at M3 Cutters, you have to join to post, but lots of good info on there.
So...I went to test drive an M3 convertible yesterday evening after the chat on here. It actually felt kind of slow compared to the S3. I gave my mate a call and he said he had easily beaten M3s in both the S3 and VXR. The sound was fantastic and as an overall package it is great. Conv vs coupe makes no difference to me - the added weight, reduced structural rigidity and possible expense of a failed roof mechanism does not outweigh the ability to pose for the 3 days of sunshine we have per year. Funnily enough (not for the owner) the roof actually got stuck half way up while I was there. Cant believe Im saying this but, as great as it is, is it better than...a hot Astra?I did have a red 52 plate Cooper S back in 2004, loved it, would have another in a flash if had the £ spare, but it drank more fuel than the fantastic 911 Carrera 3.2 I then had.
My only Astra VXR experience is summer 2013, shorty after buying my M3 in and a young guy and his even younger g/f sitting on my rear bumper.....he soon disapeared in the rear view mirror.
The M3 is heavy, but I've taken the complete rear seats out ( the weight difference is really noticeable ) and the front ( boat anchor seats ) will be replaced with Pole Positions when funds permit. Take a look at M3 Cutters, you have to join to post, but lots of good info on there.
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