300bhp per tonne
Discussion
Just having a little look around and it's surprising how few cars actually exceed 300bhp/metric tonne.
Of course we can always find some via Google and there are plenty of extreme examples. But even some of the modern heavy weights that we take for granted, with their massive power outputs, are actually often still a reasonable amount short.
Modern cars are certainly more powerful and often a lot faster. But power to weight really does highlight how much weight some cars have gained.
Although I guess it's interesting to see how some cars of a past era are viewed. Few would argue the abilities of the e36 328i, but I think it is often forgotten what it weighed and with its lowish output engine (in a modern sense), comes in massively behind something like the GT86 in power to weight terms.
Of course we can always find some via Google and there are plenty of extreme examples. But even some of the modern heavy weights that we take for granted, with their massive power outputs, are actually often still a reasonable amount short.
| Make/Model | Weight (kg) | Weight (tonne) | Power bhp | Power/weight |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2012 Jaguar XFR-S | 1987 | 1.987 | 542.5 | 273 |
| 2014 BMW M5 | 1945 | 1.945 | 592 | 304 |
| 2004 BMW M5 (E60) | 1830 | 1.830 | 500 | 273 |
| 2014 Porsche Boxster GTS PDK | 1375 | 1.375 | 335 | 244 |
| 2000 BMW M3 (e46) | 1570 | 1.570 | 338 | 215 |
| 2013 BMW M3 (F80) | 1595 | 1.595 | 425 | 266 |
| 2015 Audi RS3 Sportback | 1595 | 1.595 | 362 | 227 |
| 2007 Lotus Elise SC | 903 | 0.903 | 217 | 240 |
| 1998 Porsche 911 C4 (996) | 1375 | 1.375 | 296 | 215 |
| 2014 BMW 650i xDrive Gran Coupé | 2055 | 2.055 | 444 | 216 |
| 2002 Jaguar S-Type R | 1800 | 1.800 | 390 | 217 |
| 1993 BMW 840Ci | 1830 | 1.830 | 282 | 154 |
| 2012 Subaru BRZ | 1253 | 1.253 | 197 | 157 |
| 1996 BMW 328i Coupe | 1395 | 1.395 | 190 | 136 |
| 2008 Nissan 370z | 1466 | 1.466 | 331 | 226 |
| 2012 Morgan Aero Coupe | 1175 | 1.175 | 362 | 308 |
| 2014 Aston Martin V8 Vantage N430 | 1610 | 1.610 | 430 | 267 |
| 2014 Mercedes-Benz S 63 AMG Coupé | 2070 | 2.070 | 577 | 279 |
Modern cars are certainly more powerful and often a lot faster. But power to weight really does highlight how much weight some cars have gained.
Although I guess it's interesting to see how some cars of a past era are viewed. Few would argue the abilities of the e36 328i, but I think it is often forgotten what it weighed and with its lowish output engine (in a modern sense), comes in massively behind something like the GT86 in power to weight terms.
neil1jnr said:
I thought BHP/tonne was measured at wheel horse power....
Why?It's a simple stat. Claimed power (which from car makers is always a form of Bhp at the flywheel) and weight in metric tonnes.
You could have hp at the wheels, but much harder to find data for a wider range of cars and far too much variance in how whp is derived.
The metric however would then be wBhp/tonne
R8VXF said:
300bhp/ton said:
Why?
It's a simple stat. Claimed power (which from car makers is always a form of Bhp at the flywheel) and weight in metric tonnes.
You could have hp at the wheels, but much harder to find data for a wider range of cars and far too much variance in how whp is derived.
The metric however would then be WHP/tonne
EFA It's a simple stat. Claimed power (which from car makers is always a form of Bhp at the flywheel) and weight in metric tonnes.
You could have hp at the wheels, but much harder to find data for a wider range of cars and far too much variance in how whp is derived.
The metric however would then be WHP/tonne
This is because there many types of Horse Power (HP). For automotive use HP is derived from measuring Torque via a Brake device, aka a dynamometer, or dyno for short, be it a chassis (rolling road) or engine dyno.
The 'B' stands for Brake for brake device. So automotive HP derived from measuring torque at the driven wheels is still Bhp. You simply add the 'W' to indicate where the reading is from.
wBhp.
likesachange said:
Bhp wins sales torque wins races .. (Obv not strictly true ). Low down torque is what really counts for 90% of spirited road driving. I'd imagine torque is the big factor fighting drag too? But that's just my theory.
I would say your theory seems wrong and rather flawed I'm afraid.Low down torque is great, if you are low in rev range. But for "spirited driving" in a n/a 2.0 litre would you really spend any time below say 4000rpm? If not, then who cares what torque it makes at 2000rpm. It's all about what power it makes.
I do agree a usable powerband and one that allows you to shift gear before the red line without falling out of it, generally make a car better for road use (although less important for track use).
And lets not forget torque and power are intrinsically linked. You simply can't have power without torque.
HP = torque x rpm /5252
Having said all this, I suspect a good strong mid range punch is probably the most useful for the majority of people for fast road use. As I suspect many people are either to lazy to fully utilise all the gears and all the rev range. Along with the fact that when you do actually do this, you will be giving the car a massive hiding and working it extremely hard.
And the reality is, proper fast cars are likely too fast to utilise on the road in such a manner.
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